Conservatives defend Pope Francis

[sallybutler]

Princeton and Harvard, huh?

Why not say something like “I’m a Catholic, no matter who’s Pope” ?

Doesn’t it occur to these people that Pope Francis will not be Pope forever? It’s not like a Pope has never resigned suddenly.

Your realise that would mean that you have to trust the Holy Spirit (and therefore God) to know what He is doing.

 

[KSU]

Being politically conservative and religiously conservative are not the same thing. For example, a conservative Catholic can be socially conservative whilst being economically progressive. Similarly, a conservative Catholic can value immigration, have progressive views on creative solutions to educational problems but want to celebrate the old mass.

It’s misleading to equate political conservatism with conservative religion.

You’re right, and that’s why it’s better not to use the term “conservative” in a religious context, unless everyone involved has the exact same understanding of the term. On a public forum like this that’s almost never the case.

I’m a recent convert to using the terms “orthodox” or “non-progressive” in a public forum.

 

[KSU]

ProVobis–" I am baffled by this. Hasn’t the Pope spoken against capitalism, libertarianism, and a few other things conservatives hold dear? "

KSU—"Only if you believe the translators at the Vatican Press Office and the secular media.

---

ProVobis—"That’s a big part of the problem, true. But…I suppose the more progressive could have used that same argument when JPII and Benedict were still Popes.

---

The secular media certainly is a big part of the problem; all of the secular media (even my shelter-from-the-storm of political lies and half truths, Fox News). Sadly, we all have seen even some religious media mislead because of laziness or for the sake of creating controversy or to serve their view of the topics at issue.

But, my friend, JPII and Benedict did not have the problem Francis has. Beginning with the English version of EVANGELII GAUDIUM , there is now a bigger problem for poor Francis; when it comes to translations into English (and only English), I do not recall ever before seeing the Vatican Press Office translators be openly biased against non-progressives. Not only are words and entire concepts being mistranslated into English from the original Spanish and Italian, in the latest mistranslation fiasco at the Synod, an entire string of words were left out to change the meaning of what Francis said. THAT is the bigger problem now.

BTW, we still don’t have a correct English version of EVANGELLI GAUDIUM (Nov., 2013), but the Press Office broke all speed records when translating the attempted progressive manipulation of the Synod, the mid-term Relatio, for the world press. The press had it before the Bishops did!

 

[Darryl1958]

I am baffled by this. Hasn’t the Pope spoken against capitalism, libertarianism, and a few other things conservatives hold dear?

Just because he is not a good conservative or a libertarian does not mean that he is not a good Catholic.
Liberals can be Catholics too, and even popes sometimes.

Either way, Church teaching places limits on the most egregious of liberal excesses. There is something inherently conservative of having teachings tied to two thousand years of cumulative Church dogma and doctrine. There is not a lot of wiggle room on any of the social issues near and dear to a liberal’s heart.

 

[unafraid]

ProVobis–" I am baffled by this. Hasn’t the Pope spoken against capitalism, libertarianism, and a few other things conservatives hold dear? "

KSU—"Only if you believe the translators at the Vatican Press Office and the secular media.

---

ProVobis—"That’s a big part of the problem, true. But…I suppose the more progressive could have used that same argument when JPII and Benedict were still Popes.

---

The secular media certainly is a big part of the problem; all of the secular media (even my shelter-from-the-storm of political lies and half truths, Fox News). Sadly, we all have seen even some religious media mislead because of laziness or for the sake of creating controversy or to serve their view of the topics at issue.

But, my friend, JPII and Benedict did not have the problem Francis has. Beginning with the English version of EVANGELII GAUDIUM , there is now a bigger problem for poor Francis; when it comes to translations into English (and only English), I do not recall ever before seeing the Vatican Press Office translators be openly biased against non-progressives. Not only are words and entire concepts being mistranslated into English from the original Spanish and Italian, in the latest mistranslation fiasco at the Synod, an entire string of words were left out to change the meaning of what Francis said. THAT is the bigger problem now.

BTW, we still don’t have a correct English version of EVANGELLI GAUDIUM (Nov., 2013), but the Press Office broke all speed records when translating the attempted progressive manipulation of the Synod, the mid-term Relatio, for the world press. The press had it before the Bishops did!

Those insinuations regarding the presumed machinations of the Vatican Press Office strike me as the sort of sensationalism that Dan Brown might hash up. You are implying that a conspiracy exists. That is dangerous .

Also, and more disturbingly, this view suggests that the Holy Father is weak and unaware; a dupe who is ripe for manipulation. Pope Francis is far from being someone who would be vulnerable to such blatant temerity.

I don’t believe it.

 

[ProVobis]

But, my friend, JPII and Benedict did not have the problem Francis has. Beginning with the English version of EVANGELII GAUDIUM , there is now a bigger problem for poor Francis; when it comes to translations into English (and only English), I do not recall ever before seeing the Vatican Press Office translators be openly biased against non-progressives. Not only are words and entire concepts being mistranslated into English from the original Spanish and Italian, in the latest mistranslation fiasco at the Synod, an entire string of words were left out to change the meaning of what Francis said. THAT is the bigger problem now.

BTW, we still don’t have a correct English version of EVANGELLI GAUDIUM (Nov., 2013), but the Press Office broke all speed records when translating the attempted progressive manipulation of the Synod, the mid-term Relatio, for the world press. The press had it before the Bishops did!

All valid points. Perhaps the press is more knowledgeable in Italian than in Latin. I personally couldn’t tell you what I feel the translation should be if it’s not in Latin or Polish, so I myself have no real clue as to what he’s even trying to say. So I have to trust others but whom can we trust? It’s been reported even the bishops are confused.

 

[KSU]

Those insinuations regarding the presumed machinations of the Vatican Press Office strike me as the sort of sensationalism that Dan Brown might hash up. You are implying that a conspiracy exists. That is dangerous .

Also, and more disturbingly, this view suggests that the Holy Father is weak and unaware; a dupe who is ripe for manipulation. Pope Francis is far from being someone who would be vulnerable to such blatant temerity.

I don’t believe it.

Please, my friend, don’t put words in my mouth. If I had said what you did, I would have received an infraction. And everything I said is true, as 15 minutes research on the Internet and this Forum would confirm for you by orthodox, reliable, Catholic sources. Here are just a few of many:
ncregister.com/blog/simcha-fisher/utterly-predictable-news-flash-pope-mistranslated

setonmagazine.com/latest-articles/what-if-the-translators-of-pope-francis-translated-other-stuff-in-history

catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=1057

Even the conservative media has chronicled the very bad English translations. You can Google it yourself.

 

[unafraid]

Please, my friend, don’t put words in my mouth. If I had said what you did, I would have received an infraction. And everything I said is true, as 15 minutes research on the Internet and this Forum would confirm for you by orthodox, reliable, Catholic sources. Here are just a few of many:
ncregister.com/blog/simcha-fisher/utterly-predictable-news-flash-pope-mistranslated

setonmagazine.com/latest-articles/what-if-the-translators-of-pope-francis-translated-other-stuff-in-history

catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=1057

Even the conservative media has chronicled the very bad English translations. You can Google it yourself.

This comes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

“For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”

“The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.”

Traditionalism from its very source, would you not agree?. We must be careful we don’t allow ideological fervor to obfuscate truth. Pope Francis must not be mischaracterized as something he is not. That is the danger of politicizing his mission.

 

[KSU]

This comes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

“For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”

“The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.”

Traditionalism from its very source, would you not agree?. We must be careful we don’t allow ideological fervor to obfuscate truth. Pope Francis must not be mischaracterized as something he is not. That is the danger of politicizing his mission.

I agree with the Catechism because I am a non-progressive, non-Traditionalist, orthodox Catholic, but you are badly misusing the term “Traditionalism.” Traditionalism is not a good thing, so, no, of course I do not agree that your quote of the Catechism is “Traditionalism from its very source”.

I still have no idea what you are getting at, or why you keep putting words in my mouth about Pope Francis. Please stop it. Why can’t you understand that I am defending him against mistranslations of what he writes and says? It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.

You say he has not been mistranslated, and that my belief otherwise is dangerous. Believe what you want.