Considering separation for a while

[teresadeavila]

really I would rather you change the title to the above

Consider the better options… its a form of prayer! What’s the truer option— wellllll Its hard to just work on myself but I will.

I like the new title.

 

[teresadeavila]

I also had to put Christ first in my life. It was difficult at first, but it has paid huge dividends.

God, I wish he has come to that conclusion. Sadly, he worships money and material things more. It’s all he can talk about - perhaps the pressure to provide has got the best of him. I’ve been praying daily, offering rosaries, sharing this issue with my spiritual director, and that has not changed - meanwhile, we have family visiting this weekend. Awkward.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have not made threats - I am simply considering what options I have left after more than 2 years of dealing with the same issues over and over again. I am beginning to harbor resentment towards him and am just plain exhausted, frustrated, and over this. When I try to talk to him gently about it, he gets very defensive or rolls his eyes and makes faces like a child.

I was hoping the separation would allow me some space, room to breath, as I feel really suffocated. I need time to think seriously about our marriage, our kids, our friends & family and if our marriage can be saved. I feel like this is my last resort; I also hope that it would be his wake up call although I see him clamming up even more if we do separate. It also doesn’t help that his parents live with us (very common in our culture), and we have no privacy except in the bedroom - and the electronics is my competition there.

tbcrawford, I understand marriage is so much more than attraction, but the problem I mentioned is just 1 of many, and 1 problem that really upsets me b/c my libido is much stronger than his. Is that even normal???

Bucket, great suggestions and thanks for sharing, happy you were able to get through your issues for your sake and your family’s- I really like the computer free week although that would be hard giving our work and 12-15 hour days. But our marriage is more important than our work - just have to convince him of that fact!

Oh dear. Your in-laws live with you… Have they always? And BTW, where would you go if you did separate? Your family?

Believe me, I have considered separation at different points throughout my marriage. Usually it is not primarily on my own behalf, but so that my husband would receive a “wake up call.” But that is not a good reason and can easily backfire on you. If your husband feels more freedom when you are gone, he will not get that wake-up call. I assume his mother would step in and take care of him? Where would you be then - on the outside with no more options for that wake-up call.

I gave up that idea. If I leave, it is going to be for other reasons. Proving something to my husband is not enough. He could take me up on it and harden his heart against me for leaving, too. Just a very risky undertaking, IMO. Also both people then learn to function or limp along on their own, and getting back together takes work. Easier to go through with divorce? Maybe.

I know you are tired, but please, go talk to your priest before you do anything.

 

[teresadeavila]

RealJuliane, We always had parents live with us, first, my mom, then his parents - we do get along (in fact, I get along with them more than my own hubby, go figure), and they help us out a great deal around the house. BUT when we need alone time or just a private space to talk, it’s rare. When I suggest we go away for 1 night on the weekend so we can connect,talk, or just plain have fun, hubby is not interested. He’s a hermit, really, just like his mom.

His mom would just step in and take care of him, he’s a mama’s boy. Always has been. sigh He never lived on his own - so his maturity is lacking a bit in relationships, and he has few friends, b/c he’s so quiet and reserved. All this I knew before I married him so I know I have to just accept it.

 

[hurting]

A couple of thoughts…

1. There is a world of difference between counseling from a practicing Catholic therapist and otherwise. I would even tend to question the advice you’d get from a putatively Catholic therapist, even one sponsored by Catholic Charities.
2. Canon law allows for the separation of the spouses up to an including civil divorce (if the latter is the only way to ensurce the safety of the spouses and the children); it also dictates that the bishop or lcoal ordinary’s permission must be obtained prior to doing so except in cases of emergency. As a practical matter, unless you live in a very conservative diocese, expect the local church to abdicate her role in this regard. You may or may not have a case for an eccliastical separation, and your local bishop may or may not rule on it as he is required by canon law, but you should ask nonetheless.
3. Put simply, you are playing with fire in considering a separation. What if you demand one and your husband says ‘no’? Are you going to divorce him?

Take it from someone who is two years deep into an unwanted divorce - it is horrible. Please do not do this to your family.

 

[The_Bucket]

teresadeavila:

tbcrawford, I understand marriage is so much more than attraction, but the problem I mentioned is just 1 of many, and 1 problem that really upsets me b/c my libido is much stronger than his. Is that even normal???

Generally no, but this is highly dependent on each person. Some men actually are not terribly interested in sex all the time. Others, yes please! Depression, addiction, physical condition, diet and overall health play a big role too. So does mental health in terms of self-image. I’m sure plenty of women out there have said “I don’t feel sexy right now” and that’s a non-starter for relations. Well men feel the same way too sometimes.

Bucket, great suggestions and thanks for sharing, happy you were able to get through your issues for your sake and your family’s- I really like the computer free week although that would be hard giving our work and 12-15 hour days. But our marriage is more important than our work - just have to convince him of that fact!

Getting through these issues is a daily fight. I don’t mean a constant struggle and I’m hanging on by my fingernails, but more like a cold war between me and Satan. I’m stockpiling weapons with frequent Mass attendance, daily Rosaries and taking practical steps to avoid temptation. I’m sure he’s trying to figure out new ways to get to me.

I assure you that if I had an unlocked and unfiltered computer next to me 24/7, I’d either relent to the pressure of temptation or take sleeping pills to pass out and get to the next day. I need to to be away, at least for the foreseeable future. Hopefully that won’t always be the case. If it is, well that’s life and I much prefer being a good husband and father with no computer than have that machine.

Maybe to ease into and say you want to get away from non-essential use of the computer. Do it slow if you have to. Ask him to take 30 minutes of his usual computer time each day and devote it to conversation with you or the kids or to prayer.

TRJ is right. You can’t be his babysitter. But you can communicate how much it really and truly hurts you that he’s so wrapped up in his own little world. My wife told me this and so I did make an effort. A half-hearted one and it certainly didn’t change my attitude or my shame at my sin. It’s extremely risky though; but my wife knew underneath the muck and nastiness that there was a man who desperately wanted to love her, his children and God but was too ashamed to do everything he had to do in order to do it. She knew me better than I know myself. Hopefully you know how to get to him too.

 

[Irishmom2]

tbcrawford, I understand marriage is so much more than attraction, but the problem I mentioned is just 1 of many, and 1 problem that really upsets me b/c my libido is much stronger than his. Is that even normal???

If your husband is depressed, yes, it can be normal. I know others have said it before, but he does sound depressed.

 

[Peanut7949]

Theresadeavila!!! You put Christ first, that is what YOU need to do, not your husband___ Free will is for each of us. Saturn5 himself put Christ first!! Not his wife… in fact his spouse is still struggling if you read his whole passage… so your place IS WITH Christ first… because, from Jesus’ point of view, you can love your husband WITHOUT his transgressions getting in the way… I highly suggest you read Story of the Soul by Therese de Lisieux… she is helping me to understand my brother when he is doing his own work which I find discouraging, she finds “I KNEw he would make it !!” NEGATIVITY GETS YOU NO WHERe. Right? So right now, Christ has you working on yourself to be more as He. 15 minute prayer. Beautiful!

Yesterday, my brother was on his computer as usual and in prayer I was cued to talk to him… I said “What are you doing on the computer (without lookin at the computer).” He didn’t answer but thought. I even nicerlyer asked again. He was in deeper thought. I even nicelyer asked again!! And he asked me “What made you change ? Was there one instance that made you change? Or was it a succession ??” He usually would not ask such a learnful question!! So by being genuinely interested in what he is doing on the computer, he comes back with being genuinely interested in who i am!! I even got to talk about foundation and about how it is so important to build a strong one on truth. (However being so excited i practically poured on him about Jesus lol so next time I will be more modest)

 

[Serap]

We’ve been in marital counseling, attended Retrouvaille, tried journaling, but after 11 plus years, it seems yet the old habits come back. My hubby is still dependent on spending money on things (cars, electronics, etc) to make himself happy (a source of argument in our home), spends most of his time on his iphone and labtop instead of spending a few minutes time with me or his children, doesn’t communicate, keeps his feelings to himself, and does not spend much time on his appearance with me. He’s not overweight but has no muscle, and sadly, I’ve lost my attraction to him entirely - although just to attempt keeping our marriage together, I’ve initiated sex - I get a lukewarm response.

I seriously do not want to be divorced but at what point does it seem hopeless?? How much counseling does it take? We’ve done almost 6 months of counseling, and while he has worked on his anger/rage issues, he’s emotionally unavailable. He has lost faith in the church years ago, he attends Mass, but only out of obligation - he doesn’t want to join me when I go to confession, has little if no interest in sex and is not interested in things I’m interested (books, spiritual discussions) except movies. I’ve worked really hard to stay attractive, exercising (I wear size 4), doing my hair, makeup, nails - all to no avail. When I try to talk to him nicely about it, he shrugs his shoulders and says, “I don’t know what’s wrong.” He just won’t open up. I’ve asked him why he feels the need to buy expensive items, he says nothing. I don’t nag him, don’t criticize him unless it has to do with our children (when he starts getting incredibly angry over something minor, like a sock on the floor) - not sure what to do at this point.

My personal take is that you’re being kinda harsh on him.

Imagine if you were reading this post and it was written by a man complaining about his wife. The man would get a lot of critism from women crying foul.

You need to turn it around and see how you are contributing to this story. Be honest with yourself.

 

[tbcrawford]

My personal take is that you’re being kinda harsh on him.

Imagine if you were reading this post and it was written by a man complaining about his wife. The man would get a lot of critism from women crying foul.

You need to turn it around and see how you are contributing to this story. Be honest with yourself.

 

[The_Bucket]

My personal take is that you’re being kinda harsh on him.

Imagine if you were reading this post and it was written by a man complaining about his wife. The man would get a lot of critism from women crying foul.

You need to turn it around and see how you are contributing to this story. Be honest with yourself.

If it was just the “he’s not interested in what I’m interested in and he’s let himself go to pot physically” I’d totally agree. But falling away from his faith? Going to Mass only out of obligation, not interested in prayer or being with his kids? Those are some red flags.

I agree that it’s not cause for separation but it is cause for kicking it into high gear for this guy to work on himself and his marriage. Frankly I don’t think the “not liking the same things” bit has any part in a thread like this. Who cares? But he should develop his own interests outside of a computer. And I say this as a guy who would be way, way into electronics if I could trust myself to stay away from the dark stuff. I’ve forced myself to be more social, more like the guy my wife fell in love with and not only is she over the moon about it (even after a horrible interlude that was my fault) but my kids are happier and I’m so much happier with myself.

 

[teresadeavila]

If it was just the “he’s not interested in what I’m interested in and he’s let himself go to pot physically” I’d totally agree. But falling away from his faith? Going to Mass only out of obligation, not interested in prayer or being with his kids? Those are some red flags.

I agree that it’s not cause for separation but it is cause for kicking it into high gear for this guy to work on himself and his marriage. Frankly I don’t think the “not liking the same things” bit has any part in a thread like this. Who cares? But he should develop his own interests outside of a computer. And I say this as a guy who would be way, way into electronics if I could trust myself to stay away from the dark stuff. I’ve forced myself to be more social, more like the guy my wife fell in love with and not only is she over the moon about it (even after a horrible interlude that was my fault) but my kids are happier and I’m so much happier with myself.

Thanks Bucket - your comments/posts are very encouraging! As usual, there are members on this forum who simply love to judge others when the authors are simply trying to get advice/guidance from members who have been through this or understand what the author may be going through. I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong or being honest with myself - perhaps I need to make more time for my hubby, try to be more understanding when he’s stressed, etc. My hubby and I have to discuss these issues, no doubt, and I plan on telling him how I feel; I hope he’s open to expressing his feelings to me. We talked last night and this morning; we plan on trying to work it out. No separation.

 

[The_Bucket]

All to the better. If there is no underlying dark habits and sins then my apologies for repeatedly bringing it up; I do so only because I know my own past experience and the telltale signs. But there are always exceptions.

If it’s depression or something, do tread lightly but firmly. A man’s ego can be a delicate thing and you don’t want to box him into a corner. Challenge him to better himself but be encouraging in it. Be his biggest cheerleader. We men need the women we love in our corners especially when we’re down on ourselves or beating ourselves up!

And as I said, don’t touch on anything regarding liking the same things. Encourage him to explore his interests outside of the computer. Maybe he’s not an outdoorsy type (I’m not) but would like to hike because it’s a good workout, would get the endorphins going and is a new experience. I love hiking now but I still eschew camping overnight, much to my wife’s chagrin. Maybe he’d prefer joining a local club sports team or something. That would instantly throw him into a loose social situation where he could find friends or even just buddies to hang out with at the pub after a game. I’m sure you’d be on board with him doing that instead of lazing around on the computer, right? You could bring the kids to a softball or kickball or soccer or flag football game.

Those are ways he could deal with the stress of work or life or whatever without being wrapped up in an electronic device, which is an isolating thing. Computers and video games are fine in moderation in my opinion if there are no associated bad habits, but they’re still isolating. Finding stress relieving activities to do that include other people is always best.

Encouraging daily prayer but in small doses should also help too. Maybe just a quick Our Father, Hail Mary and Glory Be every night before bed. Note that it will take all of two minutes and would mean a lot to you. Even if he just does it grudgingly, it’s a good habit to get into and can help push out any negative habits.

So maybe he needs some prodding. That’s ok. As I said, be persistent but not overwhelming. Be a cheerleader. Constantly reinforce that you’re coming from a place of love and support. Hope that’s helpful.

 

[Serap]

don’t make threats you don’t intend to carry out.

Think seriously about what you hope to achieve with this separation. If your husband already spends too much time on the internet, with you and the kids gone, all of his free time can be spent on the internet. Maybe he’d hit his bottom, maybe not. Maybe he’d decide that it’s a lot easier to be alone and he would initiate a divorce. It happens.

People who have addictive personalities can easily get addicted to the internet. I consider myself addicted. I have neglected my family in favor of on-line relationships. I have chronic depression and this filled a huge void in my marriage at a time when i had lost hope. I’m not happy about it. But it’s up to me to fix it.

Your husband needs to admit that he has a problem. Like pouring out the booze for an alcoholic, cutting off his internet access is not going to solve the problem, and will only reduce your relationship to that of parent and child. I would never advise any spouse to intervene in that way. It distorts the relationship immediately. Whatever happens, do not become his parent.

**this !!! **

 

[faithsmind]

Hello Theresa! I hope you reach a happy resolution with your husband. God be with you, and remember His loving eyes are on you, both. All of Heaven looks down with such tender eyes on the pain you must be going through.
My gut was telling me that your husband is facing a porn addiction, just because your experience sounds so familiar. You said you had discovered this before… you need to know this is like discovering heroin in your son’s backpack, and should not be taken lightly. The Saint Benedict medal is a very powerful means of protection from addiction and the devil. I really encourage you to do what Bucket rec’d with the computer and it’s files, as well as taping a blessed (make aptmt with priest to say the specific prayer over the medals) Saint Benedict medal to the back of your computer. Wear one around your neck. Also, go to Dr. Dobson’s website and search for counselors in your area who specialize in this type of addiction and demand he go with you–if not just for yourself. "Look, I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. So be as shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves. -Matthew 10:16. Don’t be afraid to get tough, listen to your instincts, and hold your ground.

God be with you.

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do though, oh Prince of the Heavenly Host,
By the divine power of God,
cast into Hell Satan, and all the evil spirits who prowl about the earth,
seeking the ruin of souls.

 

[teresadeavila]

Thanks faithsmind, if you read my prior posts here, I did not see any evidence he was on any of those sites, so what we’re dealing with here is classic neglect, a hobby of buying things to fill a void, and what seems like depression on certain days. We’re trying to work things out and may need to return to counseling - we’re about to go on our annual family vacation so I hope we have time to talk and spend quality time together as a couple and as a family. He promised to stay off the computer, and I know I need to find time outside my crazy work schedule for us.

I love that St. Michael prayer! Been using that prayer daily - several times in fact! A priest in Savannah introduced me to that prayer, and for that, I’ll be forever grateful.

I can only hope that my hubby will be more open to God’s love & mercy and stop turning towards buying material things to fill a void. Thanks for all your support here, Bucket, I took to heart your advice, esp about mens egos and to be sensitive to it. Boy, I’ve had to learn that the hard way over the past 11 yrs! Point taken.

 

[faithsmind]

Ok theresa! I thought I had just read somewhere that you had discovered something at one time. So, so glad to hear that there is nothing impure in his computer involvement because porn is more addictive than herion, as it stays in the system forever and is self-regulated. But I do have questions about the fact that he has no sexual desire for you. The correlation of extreme computer interaction and lack of sexual desire for you raises red flags for me. Lack of sexual desire is usually abnormal for a married man’s behavior. I still do recommend Dr. Dobson’s referral site and the medal.

I’m glad you are reconsidering seperation, since you don’t seem to mention any type of physical or extreme verbal abuse where there is a need to protect yourself or your children. Seperation as a means of communication, as a means of trying to wake him to your feelings will not work. It does not attack the problem or solve it for him. It only seperates yourself from the problem, when the most important thing for you is to find and face the problem.

 

[teresadeavila]

Ok theresa! I thought I had just read somewhere that you had discovered something at one time. So, so glad to hear that there is nothing impure in his computer involvement because that is extremely dangerous. But I do have questions about the fact that he has no sexual desire for you. This raises red flags to me, because this is usually abnormal for a married man’s behavior. I still do recommend Dr. Dobson’s referral site and the medal.

Okay, thanks - he had an issue when we first got married with internet usage but to date, I have not seen any evidence of that problem. But I often wondered about his low libido, I will check out that site and get that medal. Can’t hurt!

 

[Lady_Love]

“Women avoid intimacy by making problems.”

I see it like this, just like with God, if you really want a relationship with God you will let nothing get in the way of it, not your sin, not your attitude, not a nasty priest or any church scandal. So it is with the relationship with your husband.

What I see is you are constantly focused on everything you don’t like about your husband. You are focused on all the problems and all the reasons that he makes your life miserable. What I want to know is “What do you love about your husband?” What does he do that makes you proud?" “How has he enriched your life?” Do you ever give him positive feed back? Do you ever let him make you happy? Do you ever let him do anything right? Do you ever let him be “good enough” or even fantastic about anything?

Your husband’s spending habit is probably an attempt to boost his ego. Which means he wants to feel special, important, needed, respected, noticed,loved, etc. Maybe he needs that stuff from you, the only one he has really wanted to impress his whole life but can’t seem to do?

Women have no idea how much influence they have with their husband or how much their husband needs to “win” with you, how much he needs to be your hero. Not a hero the way you want him to be but a hero in the way he CAN be.

Much of a man’s ability to be successful in life is determined by how much his wife is satisfied with what he has to offer her (not what he can’t offer her). Her being pleased with what he can do or give will boost his confidence to do and give more. If she is never pleaseable his confidence goes down and therefore, as a result he compensates with the spending.

I was in a similar situation as you at one point in my life. The problem was that everyone commiserated with me and no one told me the truth or how to fix it, no one pointed out what I could do to make it better. No one showed me how “MY” attitude was the one that needed to change. Which lead to me making matters worse.

I needed to learn that I couldn’t change someone else but I could change what I was doing that might be causing it or something that I could change that could bring about a different outcome or a different reaction. I desperately wanted to love him but I couldn’t seem to find my heart through all my resentment. I look back at my relationship and because I never let him win with me, he always felt like a loser and became depressed and that just gave me more ammunition to fire at him. I eventually, made everything a problem and found my excuse to leave.

I wish someone had shown me what I was doing, that I was hurting my beloved and destroying the relationship, instead of letting me play the VICTIM.

“Love covers a multitude of sins.”

 

[LCN]

Sometimes the best thing you can do is the opposite of your instinct. Your instinct right now is to pull him closer and force him to interact. What if you accept that he may never re-engage, and figure out how to live a happy life anyway? That sounds Pollyanna-ish, I know, but what if you take the focus of him and his faults, and focus on the things in yourself that lead you to feel desperate for a certain definition of marriage?

Here is another way of saying this that may make more sense. You are writing your post to tell us how you feel about your marriage – but the whole entire post is about your husband. There is nothing in there about your own self or your own feelings. Without meaning any sort of insult or disrespect to you (I have been in a situation that seems similar to what you describe here), it sounds like you are obsessed with his current status, and possibly completely unaware of your own. I second the idea of thinking about what your goals really are, and consider an “in house” separation. Just stop trying to engage him for a while. Let go the reins. Read about “detachment” in Al-Anon literature, and try to apply it where you can. Peace to you!

although you are married you are still two individuals… let him grow in his own timing… try not to tell others what to do, you can ask, and you need patience with asking!

what you may need is your own alone time and to some how not mind his funny habits… i’m not married and am young so don’t take my advice heavily, but i have a brother and God is showing me to love him no matter what and to keep feeding him as good as i feed (well for him better because he needs the extravagance like your husband needing the cars) myself. i used to need the extravagence too with food but i am much further in this subject than him… so i have to keep remembering i was there once too. (btw my brother is on the computer all the time as well… im clueless as to what… hopefully doing what my good role models do and researching to be up to date with the times and have the best gist of the truth… i shouldn’t get hopes up though! he hasn’t learned to filter as well as i do with his shows… he is half way there tho, he is changing, not at the pace i want him to, but he is!!)

i’m sure husband and wife works a little easier in some ways, my brother wouldn’t ever take a walk with me, but maybe you can with your husband.

otherwise, i want to say that a good role model friend and his wife barely see each other, because he runs a business and must be there all day for it to work. well they do wonderfully… they had a bit of a riff as well and separated for a while. they are now happily back together. maybe just sleep in diff rooms. how did you start your marriage? has it been traditionally catholic the whole time?