Contemplating Islam

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OK I have a couple of Questions ?

Why is it ok to kill a Apostate who left Islam ?

Where does the name Allah come from ?

Why is it that in Theocracies in the Muslim world people can’t practice any religion freely ?

Why is it that if Islam means “peace” it actually has more laws that its resolution is killing or corporal punishent ?

And last one my personal favorite

Why is it that Iraqi Christians where not persecuted to the extent that they are now in curent Iraq than when Sadam was in power ?

O last one sorry

Why can’t non Muslims not join the military in Muslim nations but demand to be able to join in America’s military ?

I know these answers but would anyone like to chime in please ?
 
One thing that I confess I have trouble understanding: why did God allow Christian lands to fall to Islam? Arabia, the land of Muhammad was pagan, but what is today the countries of Iraq, Jordan, Israel, Syria, Turkey, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco were all Christian. Egypt and Turkey were centers of Christianity. St. Augustine was from Algeria. And, of course, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ walked the earth on Israel. I have no doubt Islam is a false religion, but I do have trouble processing these facts.

I offer a prayer:

Lord, though I understand not why lands once faithful to your Holy Name have been allowed to fall under the sway of a false prophet, I ask, if it be Your will, that You bring the suffering people of those places out of the terrible darkness of Mohammedanism and that You restore them into the pure light of Your holy truth. For yours is the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory, forever and ever.
Amen.
 
I’ve contemplated Islam once, because I’ve got several very good Muslim friends and one even for some 35 years. They’ve been nothing but good to me and I appreciate their friendship.

But Im more than happy to be a Catholic and drawn even closer to God partly in thanks to my Muslim friend who indirectly (details which I will not go into) asked me to read the Bible even closer, this was 5 months back. I never really did it before and it’s all so clear to me where Salvation lies;leading me to the fullness of Truth.

Now happily going to Church every morning and saying the Rosary daily.🙂

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
I’ve contemplated Islam once, because I’ve got several very good Muslim friends and one even for some 35 years. They’ve been nothing but good to me and I appreciate their friendship.

But Im more than happy to be a Catholic and drawn even closer to God partly in thanks to my Muslim friend who indirectly (details which I will not go into) asked me to read the Bible even closer, this was 5 months back. I never really did it before and it’s all so clear to me where Salvation lies;leading me to the fullness of Truth.

Now happily going to Church every morning and saying the Rosary daily.🙂

MJ
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God Bless You.This is the true path there is no other.
 
The Koran has a historically inaccurate view of Jesus. The Koran says that Jesus was nto crucified,

In Sura 4:157 we read:

4:157 [A]nd [the Jews] said, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” (They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to him. Those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him.

Later muslim tradition says that Judas was mistakenly crucified in Jesus’ place.

Now obviously either the New Testament or the Koran has not got it’s facts straight. They can’t both be right. Simply ask yourself the question, which is more apt to be historically reliable, a collection of documents which was written down in the 1st generation while the eyewitnesses where still alive or a book written 600 years later by a man who had not even any first-hand contact with the New Testament. To ask the question is to answer it. The primary source documents is clearly the documents of the New Testament.

The claim from the Koran that Jesus was not in fact crucified, a fact which even Robert Funk the chairman of the radical Jesus seminar says, ‘‘one indisputable fact about Jesus.’’ The Koran presents a historically inadequate picture of Jesus.
 
AfarGirl said:
The Koran has a historically inaccurate view of Jesus. The Koran says that Jesus was nto crucified,

In Sura 4:157 we read:

4:157 [A]nd [the Jews] said, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” (They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to him. Those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him.

Later muslim tradition says that Judas was mistakenly crucified in Jesus’ place.

Now obviously either the New Testament or the Koran has not got it’s facts straight. They can’t both be right. Simply ask yourself the question, which is more apt to be historically reliable, a collection of documents which was written down in the 1st generation while the eyewitnesses where still alive or a book written 600 years later by a man who had not even any first-hand contact with the New Testament. To ask the question is to answer it. The primary source documents is clearly the documents of the New Testament.

The claim from the Koran that Jesus was not in fact crucified, a fact which even Robert Funk the chairman of the radical Jesus seminar says, ‘‘one indisputable fact about Jesus.’’ The Koran presents a historically inadequate picture of Jesus.
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Afargirl, please let us look at the translation of the verse that you quoted. Even a small change in the words (pronouns) can make much difference. See the right translation below:

**In Sura 4:157 we read:

4:157 [A]nd [the Jews] said, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they kill him on the cross.But it was made to appear to** them ****(as dead man)

Those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no certain e to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him.

Please understand that crucifixion means to die on the cross, not just putting up on the cross. Make the meaning of crucifixion clear. Then you will understand what the Quran is saying. The Quran does not agree to the christians belief that Jews were able to kill Jesus on the cross. You can check up your bible for the earnest prayer of Jesus in the garden before his arrest. He did not want to die a cursed death on the cross. God accepted his prayer and informed him.

So jesus was saved miraculously. Later after meeting only his very close friends, Jesus left the area (migrated, like all other prophets, to new land.).
Later muslim tradition says that Judas was mistakenly crucified in Jesus’ place
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.

There is no word in the Quran or Hadith that there was some one else on the cross. It was Jesus himself alright. So your above remarks have no value.
 
planten said:
…
Please understand that crucifixion means to die on the cross, not just putting up on the cross. …
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This is your definition. The term [crucifixion] comes from the Latin crucifixio (“fixed to a cross”, from the prefix cruci-, “cross”, + verb figere, “fix or bind fast”.)

There is an ancient record of one person who survived a crucifixion that was intended to be lethal, but that was interrupted. Josephus recounts: “I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician’s hands, while the third recovered.” Josephus gives no details of the method or duration of the crucifixion of his three friends before their reprieve.

Josephus also wrote of the crucifixion and death of Christ on the cross. It is a desperate imperative that Islam maintain the fiction of Jesus’ survival of crucifixion because Mohammed’s whole case collapses if he admitted it to be true.
 
If you are converted to any religion or way of thinking by a Youtube video (especially THAT video), I fear for your sanity.
 
sedonaman said:
This is your definition. The term [crucifixion] comes from the Latin crucifixio (“fixed to a cross”, from the prefix cruci-, “cross”, + verb figere, “fix or bind fast”.)
…
Josephus also wrote of the crucifixion and death of Christ on the cross. It is a desperate imperative that Islam maintain the fiction of Jesus’ survival of crucifixion because Mohammed’s whole case collapses if he admitted it to be true.
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sedonaman, if any one is fixed on a cross but brought down alive very soon due to any reason, would you call him as crucified??? Is the act of fixing on the cross sifficient for the person to be crucified even if the man did not die?? You are giving a wrong definition of crucifixion.

We Muslims believe that Jesus was fixed to the cross. So according to your definition, he was crucified. But becauser we are sure that Jesus did not die on the cross, we say that he was not crucified.

I believe that for crucifixion it is necessary for the person to die on the cross. First you agree with the definition of crucifixion. Then we will deal with you about teh death of Jesus on the cross and we will prove to you that Jesus did not die.

There is no Muslim in the world who believes that Jesus died on the cross. So you are against a strong wall in dealing with Muslims about crucifixion. You are even trying to change the meaning of crucifixion. You cannot get away like that. We are sure that Crucifixion means dying on the cross.
 
Planten,

May be for mutual understanding regarding the Crucifixion of Christ, as we had gone in circles regarding it last year, that perhaps it would be good to participate in the theology of Atonement, how it was practiced in the Old Testament, and how it is understood after Christ’s life, death and resurrection.

If Jesus survived and lived, after living such a great life, then how come we know nothing of his whereabouts? We know where Muhammed is…but where is Christ and his tomb?

Have you been reading anything about The Shroud in Turino, Italy??? There are stains on the cloth that are now proven to be blood stains, and that some kind of radiation happened to cause the image to come onto the cloth, a force of light.

Light of Christ…He is the Light of the World…

I think Muslims think of 3 persons in One God as carnate or physical individuals rather than Spirit that is One. It is your reference and as such, it is hard for you to believe us as well when we say we believe in One God…but three persons…but only Christ is carnate, physical…

We cannot see heaven but the Lord Jesus is there ruling over us side by side with His Father through the Holy Spirit…we cannot see the three persons because they are One Spirit. The muslims believe in God and Spirit…so there are 2 persons right there.
 
KathleenGee said:
Planten,

May be for mutual understanding regarding the Crucifixion of Christ, as we had gone in circles regarding it last year, that perhaps it would be good to participate in the theology of Atonement, how it was practiced in the Old Testament, and how it is understood after Christ’s life, death and resurrection.

If Jesus survived and lived, after living such a great life, then how come we know nothing of his whereabouts? We know where Muhammed is…but where is Christ and his tomb?

Have you been reading anything about The Shroud in Turino, Italy??? There are stains on the cloth that are now proven to be blood stains, and that some kind of radiation happened to cause the image to come onto the cloth, a force of light.

Light of Christ…He is the Light of the World…

I think Muslims think of 3 persons in One God as carnate or physical individuals rather than Spirit that is One. It is your reference and as such, it is hard for you to believe us as well when we say we believe in One God…but three persons…but only Christ is carnate, physical…

We cannot see heaven but the Lord Jesus is there ruling over us side by side with His Father through the Holy Spirit…we cannot see the three persons because they are One Spirit. The muslims believe in God and Spirit…so there are 2 persons right there.
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Thanks CathleenGee. We muslims (and i hope all jews) cannot understand your trinity. How you have three Gods and then still they are One in substance or ideal (principle , purpose). Jesus used to talk in parables. I am ready to take Jesus and Holy Spirit and God as one in purpose. That is the maximum that I can do. I cannot take the literal meanings of Jesus speech. More so when the christians take very special meanings of the words “begotten” and “One” etc. There are many special words being used and taught in the church.
 
i would say that Christ can not have been crucified, and also not crucified.

that Islam may be a well-structured religion with a beautiful religious culture, but it can not reconcile you to God, or allow you to know Him and walk with Him.

knowing, believeing in, belonging to, and following Christ will.

the Isa of Islam is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible, or history.

truthnet.org/islam/ <— this website may also be of help, and interest
 
PureHeart said:
What would you say to a person who was contemplating Islam?
:
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I would say that it is great to have a religion where women dress modestly not only at the religious services but also in their day to day clothing.
 
sidbrown said:
I would say that it is great to have a religion where women dress modestly not only at the religious services but also in their day to day clothing.
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It’s good to be modestly dressed but it really tells nothing about the kind of person one is. My Muslim friend from a shipping firm was cheated by his Muslim secretary of 11 years who wore a “Tudung” daily, spoke kindly, seemed so friendly etc etc but he later found out she has been siphoning money by writing phony cheques to put into her own pocket. She asked for forgiveness but told a whole new story to her aging parents, who inturn insulted my friend as if He did the wrong things. He trusted her for years. Shame.

MJ
 
planten said:
sedonaman, if any one is fixed on a cross but brought down alive very soon due to any reason, would you call him as crucified??? Is the act of fixing on the cross sifficient for the person to be crucified even if the man did not die?? You are giving a wrong definition of crucifixion.
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It’s not my definition; it’s the dictionary’s, and the dictionary defines usage.
We Muslims believe that Jesus was fixed to the cross. So according to your definition, he was crucified. But becauser we are sure that Jesus did not die on the cross, we say that he was not crucified.
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I believe that for crucifixion it is necessary for the person to die on the cross. First you agree with the definition of crucifixion. Then we will deal with you about teh death of Jesus on the cross and we will prove to you that Jesus did not die.
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We have gone through this several times before. First Muslims claim that Jesus was not even nailed to a cross, and then when Christians produced independent evidence that he was, you changed your story by redefining crucifixion. Changing your story is a strong indication that you are not being truthful, and that you don’t even believe it yourself.

Why does Islamic theology desperately need for Jesus not to have died on a cross? What difference does it make to you, theologically? You have never explained that.
There is no Muslim in the world who believes that Jesus died on the cross. So you are against a strong wall in dealing with Muslims about crucifixion. You are even trying to change the meaning of crucifixion. You cannot get away like that. We are sure that Crucifixion means dying on the cross.
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Belief is not proof. And your last sentence indicates your belief is weak.
 
God is one…personhood is aspects or qualities but is not of God.

So we have to look at semantics of what defines God and what defines personhood.

So if you, Planten, are allowed to read the Koran literally, then out of respect for other religions, you should also give them the right to understand the words of Jesus ‘literally’.
I qualify literal because Jesus spoke in parables.

If the Jews all believed in Jesus, we would not have a universal church, it would be a Jewish church and we would be subordinate…and no inculturation of worship into various peoples of the world.

Jesus is the carnate face of God.
 
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