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Teelynn
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Sorry I kind of screwed up that post. Did not mean to insert my (name removed by moderator)ut before Lucy’s sig. Shows you how computer literate I am at times.
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JimR-OCDS
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I just finished reading the introduction chapters of Br Lawrence in his book, at chaple yesterday. Can’t wait to get into the book itself.
Jim
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InLight247
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I haven’t finished it yet. After devouring it the first time, I’ll re-read it again. Waiting to hear your reflection when you finish.
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deekod1967
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Thanks - will add to my readng list!
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deekod1967
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Many thanks Peggy (and Jim) - another gem added to my reading list!
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InLight247
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Here are some of my favorite quotes from **“The Practice of the Presence of God”, **and my reflections to share with you.
It is impossible to avoid the dangers and hazards which life is full of without God’s actual, constant help; let us ask him for it continually. We cannot ask him for it unless we are with him. We cannot be with him unless we think of him often. We cannot think of him often unless we habitually practice this holy exercise. (Letter 8)
Offer him your heart from time to time, during the day, while at work, at every possible moment. (Letter 9)
This reminds me of what St. Teresa was talking about, “In those who really love God, there will always be present the desire for solitude, and in the very course of the work there will be a continual prayerfulness.” “We must be careful,” the Saint writes, ”in doing good works, even those of obedience and charity, not to fail to have frequent inward recourse to our God.” (Foundations)
This continual prayerfulness and frequent inward recourse to God is actually the
ever-present falling in love experience with Jesus. It is this intense “in love” feeling compels one engaging the continual conversation of repeatedly saying “I love you.”
When the love is deep down in the heart, the practice of the presence of God becomes a natural desire instead of a mere practice.
Looking forward to your insight…
It is impossible to avoid the dangers and hazards which life is full of without God’s actual, constant help; let us ask him for it continually. We cannot ask him for it unless we are with him. We cannot be with him unless we think of him often. We cannot think of him often unless we habitually practice this holy exercise. (Letter 8)
Offer him your heart from time to time, during the day, while at work, at every possible moment. (Letter 9)
This reminds me of what St. Teresa was talking about, “In those who really love God, there will always be present the desire for solitude, and in the very course of the work there will be a continual prayerfulness.” “We must be careful,” the Saint writes, ”in doing good works, even those of obedience and charity, not to fail to have frequent inward recourse to our God.” (Foundations)
This continual prayerfulness and frequent inward recourse to God is actually the
ever-present falling in love experience with Jesus. It is this intense “in love” feeling compels one engaging the continual conversation of repeatedly saying “I love you.”
When the love is deep down in the heart, the practice of the presence of God becomes a natural desire instead of a mere practice.
Looking forward to your insight…
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blessedstar
Guest
Thank you for your post.
I have noticed, in retrospect, that when alone no matter what I am doing either working or watching TV it is easy to remember Jesus, but when in the company of others either for friendship or at work it is much more difficult. The only way I have found to remember Jesus constantly is to ‘look’ at the other person present with me as Jesus, this is twofold in that it keeps my heart recollected to Jesus Himself in prayer but it also aids charity to the other as the face of Christ.
Is this possible to practise every second of the day?
Yes it is possible by God’s grace, but it is easy to get distracted especially if the other person is not always kind to us and also if we experience dryness in prayer.
I have also noticed that the company of my dog and cats do not distract from recollection, yet people can do. Curious, but true
I think true love remembers their most loved one constantly and what an offense it must be to the Divine Lover when He is only loved in the absence of another to love. I think this holy desire is seeded within us by Jesus so that we may love Him foremost and simultaneously love the other also.
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InLight247
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Literally practicing recourse to God every second is not possible for me. However, I find by God’s grace we can position ourselves in a “continual praying mode” while doing other things. Frequently turning inward to God and having a few short words is how to stay in this praying mode. This has to become a habit. Once the habit is formed, it will be natural to do so. Yet again, this habit forming must root in our love for the Lord.
“The more we know him, the more we want to know him. Since love is generally measured by knowledge, the deeper and more extensive the knowledge, the greater will be the love. And if our love is great, we will love him equally in pain and consolation.” (Letter 16)
This brings us back to the basics - get to know our Lord better. And the best way to know Jesus better is to read and reflect on his teachings, form the Bible, daily.
Spirituality is a journey. Scripture readings is critical along with other spiritual readings and prayers. From vovocal prayers, formatted prayers, discursive meditation, one progresses along to mental prayers and acquired contemplation. No matter what stage we are in, no matter how many spiritual books we have studied, Scripture reading has to be an ongoing effort. The Word of God is our daily spiritual fuel. This is my own path. And I believe this is the path.
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blessedstar
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**
This above quoted is the way to practising recollection every second of the day. It is living the Gospel. It is possible for you and for everyone.**
" while doing other things. QUOTE]
This above quoted is the way to practising recollection every second of the day. It is living the Gospel. It is possible for you and for everyone.**
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Augustine
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Very true. I got acquainted with the perpetual prayer through our Orthodox brothers, but it was only after reading Br. Lawrence that I finally grasped what perpetual prayer is. IMHO, it is the real answer to St. Paul’s calling to pray always.
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deekod1967
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I’ve been reading “Fire WIthin” by Fr. Dubay (this book is changing my prayer life for good - thanks!) and I already had “Daily Prayer for Contemplative Living” by Fr. Keating. The difference to me between the two approaches would be that Keating proposes emptying the mind of thoughts to be ready for contemplation, whilst Dubay proposes filling the mind with Christocentric thought but being open to contemplation should God will it. Any thoughts?
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4HisChurch
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I’m not an expert on this, but “empying the mind” sounds an awful lot like a New Age practice. Filling the mind with Christocentric thoughts sounds more squarely within Christian and Catholic Prayer tradition.
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JimR-OCDS
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I’m curious to where you read that Fr Keating proposes emptying of the mind? I’ve never read this from him.
He talks about limiting thoughts which draw us away from our intention by use of the sacred prayer word, but he specifically says it’s impossible to stop all thoughts.
Are you sure he’s not talking about emptying of self?
Maybe you could you just provide the quote along with the page number, from his book?
Jim
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deekod1967
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Hi Jim,
Look at today’s reading; p9 in “Daily Reader for Contemplative Reading” by Fr. Keating, it has an excerpt from “Open Mind, Open Heart” p54, as follows;
Hope this helps,
Derek.
Look at today’s reading; p9 in “Daily Reader for Contemplative Reading” by Fr. Keating, it has an excerpt from “Open Mind, Open Heart” p54, as follows;
Its is the instruction to “let go of all thoughts” whilst awaiting contemplation that concerns me, from his writings I wopuld say Dubay would propose Christocentric / Trinitarian thoughts to be filling the mind whilst awaiting contemplation. This would seem to be a fundamental difference between the two approaches, I for one feel happier with Dubay’s advice on this.
Hope this helps,
Derek.
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JimR-OCDS
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Letting go of all thoughts does not mean emptying the mind as New Agers attempt to do.
Letting go of all thoughts means not dwelling on them, not hanging on the them, but rather letting them pass by. Return to the Sacred prayer word when this happens is the instruction Father Keating gives.
Also, Father Keating says specifically that Centering Prayer is not contemplative prayer, but rather, can lead us to contemplative prayer.
Fr Dubay in The Fire Within gives and example and calls it Centering Prayer. I posted it earlier in this thread, but don’t have the book with me at the time to give you the quote.
Jim
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DBT
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Hi Derek -
Here’s how I see it. You’re correct, IMHO, about what Fr. Dubay is saying: We are to “fill” our minds with Christ (what Teresa and John would call discursive meditation) until such time as God simply wants us to “be” . . . what Fr. Keating describes as “letting go our thoughts.”
In my opinion, the types of things Fr. Keating teaches will be of little value until God brings the soul to a more simplified, contemplative mode of prayer. A common misconception about this has to do with the whole debate about “emptying” and “filling.” The type of souls I’m talking about don’t “empty;” they are, by their very nature, already “filled” with Christ. Thus, in prayer, it often takes very little active effort on their part to become recollected – and open to the gift of contemplation.
For these souls, a method like CP could be a useful aide to recollection . . . a way, perhaps, not so much different than the way of St. Teresa. In her case, all she had to do was spend a few minutes with a good spiritual book or look at an inspirational picture and she’d be overcome with the desire to let go of her thoughts and simply “be.” This is recollection as it borders on infused contemplation.
However, the problem in all of this - as you seem to sense - is when one attempts to practice ways of recollection (CP in the context of this thread) when God has not yet brought the soul to this way of prayer. Dryness and internal turmoil will be the likely result.
This is why it is good to heed the advice of the Saints (and Fr. Dubay): stick with actively applying our minds in prayer (meditation, vocal prayers, whatever) until God let’s us know it’s time to leave our prayer and big thoughts aside and place ourselves entirely in His hands . . .
Hope this helps some.
Dave
BTW - I’m very happy you’ve found Fr. Dubay to be helpful
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JimR-OCDS
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Here’s what I posted earlier in this thread;
From St. Teresa
The translation Dubay used is slightly different but teaching is the same.
The very first sentence Dubay gives us to explain the above Teresian teaching is, “Centering Prayer is not new.” Page 92 of The Fire Within.
Father Dubay see’s Centering Prayer in what Teresa wrote, and so did I the first time I read it.
If feels good not to be alone in this interpretation, especiallly with the company of Father Dubay.
Jim
From St. Teresa
.
The translation Dubay used is slightly different but teaching is the same.
The very first sentence Dubay gives us to explain the above Teresian teaching is, “Centering Prayer is not new.” Page 92 of The Fire Within.
Father Dubay see’s Centering Prayer in what Teresa wrote, and so did I the first time I read it.
If feels good not to be alone in this interpretation, especiallly with the company of Father Dubay.
Jim
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JimR-OCDS
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Also, I’ve been reading Practicing the Presence of God, by Brother Lawrence.
Everything that I’ve been reading so far is what is in taught by Father Keating on Centering Prayer, except that he does not use a prayer word to get him back on tract. Although, he does say, beginners should start by using a phrase or word, to help them stay focused. I’m not at home and don’t have the book to give you the exact wording.
Jim
Everything that I’ve been reading so far is what is in taught by Father Keating on Centering Prayer, except that he does not use a prayer word to get him back on tract. Although, he does say, beginners should start by using a phrase or word, to help them stay focused. I’m not at home and don’t have the book to give you the exact wording.
Jim
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