Contemplativeprayer.net

[Charleston]

Dave wrote…I interpret that quote as the author of the Cloud’s advice on how to manage mental distractions when brought to infused contemplation - specifically the Prayer of Quiet in St. Teresa’s terminology. My take on what the author of the Cloud is saying is that if our thoughts are drawn to self in this prayer - especially our sinful nature - we simply use the word “sin” to represent the meaning behind those thoughts.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply to my question. I’ve been meaning to address it over the last week and just had time to sit down and not rush a reply.

I think you’re on the right track, I would only add my previously mentioned caveat that from what I’ve studied regarding this type of monologic–one word or one phrase form of prayer, is that in the writings regarding our ancient tradition of contemplation sees these responses as prayer in themselves.

The best Carmelite example of this I know of comes from the writings of ven. John of St. Samson-16th century O.Carm. Brother. He proposed a 4 stage method of constant, spontaneous prayer that would be in accord with Br. Lawrence and bears remarkable similarities to the desert fathers’ practice of arrow prayers. A couple of relevant paragraphs from ven. John:

2nd Stage:
Those who have a sufficient knowledge of God and have reached the stage of simplified prayer, ought to urge themselves moderately to form essential aspirations. The subject of these aspirations might be the benefits of God in general, or one of them in particular or Divine Love and its effects…

When the soul has been deeply touched, it is by love alone that it desires it to be intimately joined to God. This why we advocate reducing ardent aspirations to a few words, even to the mere word ‘love.’ This love sends forth ardent fiery flames with all its strength. As a result, a blazing fire of divine is enkindled in the soul. It is in this way that God stirs up the soul and draws it strongly inwards.

3rd Stage:
When the soul has arrived at the exalted state of pure love through the practice of the various degrees of aspiration it sends forth the most ardent glances of love toward its Spouse. These glances are as frequent as breathing. Whether it is awake or asleep, whether it eats, drinks, or converse with others, whether it reads, studies or recites the psalms, it is always performing this work of love.

It is significant to note that ven. John proposes that the practice and stages of aspirations comes later in the spiritual life, after the soul has passed through the stages of discursive meditation and affective prayer. (Prayer, Aspiration, and Contemplation: [selections] from the Writings of John of St. Samson, O. Carm., Mystic and Charismatic, Venard Poslusney (Editor), Alba House, 1975)

On a related tangent, I’m very protective on how the invocation of the Holy Name of Jesus is addressed. After reading numerous works from both Eastern and Latin fathers I’m convinced that there’s something sacramental and powerful with using the Holy Name in prayer. One of my favorite Latin quotes regarding this from the 14th century English mystic, Richard Rolle:

If thou wilt be well with God, and have grace to rule thy life right and come to the joy of love, fasten this Name of Jesus so fast in thine heart that it can never come out of thy thought. And when thou speakest to Him, saying through habit, Jesus!, it shall be in thine ear joy, in thy mouth honey, in thy heart melody; it shall think joy to hear that Name named, sweetness to speak it, mirth and song to think it.

If thou thinkest on Jesus continually and holdest Him stably, it purges thy sin, and kindles thy heart; it clarifies thy soul, removes anger, and does away with slowness. It wounds in love, it fills full with charity; it chases the devil and quenches fear, it opens heaven and makes a contemplative man.

Have Jesus in memory, for that puts all vices and phantoms far from the lover. If thou wilt not deceive nor be deceived: if though wilt be wise and not unwise, think on this Name, Jesus, continually. It destroys all vices and vanities. It sows charity and virtues in the soul, and pours in the savor of heaven and the fullness of God’s grace into earth. Whosoever loves this Name, Jesus, without forgetting, dies in wonderful melody, and is taken by angels and brought before Him Whom he loved. This Name Jesus is above all names, to which all knees kneel, of heaven and earth and hell.

Eat and drink, sleep and wake, speak and hold silence, pray and think, work and all that thou dost do it in the Name of Jesus, bids St. Paul.

God bless you and keep you and give you good perseverance, though the virtue of this joyful Name, Jesus, Amen.

Thanks for indulging me with my ramblings, Dave. I get very excited though regarding Catholic Contemplation–we have such as rich history to from which to draw!

Best, :tiphat:

 

[DBT]

I think you’re on the right track, I would only add my previously mentioned caveat that from what I’ve studied regarding this type of monologic–one word or one phrase form of prayer, is that in the writings regarding our ancient tradition of contemplation sees these responses as prayer in themselves.

Hi Charleston -

Thanks for another very informative post!

I responded the way I did in my initial response to your post because the translation of The Cloud I have specifically says “during contemplation” when describing the use of the single syllable words sin and God.

Having said that, I agree completely that the type of prayer you’re describing is, at the same time, our response to God in infused contemplation as well as a prayer itself at all other times. The example of Brother Lawrence, whom you cite, would seem to be a wonderful example of this . . . for he often said he saw no difference between formal times of mental prayer and all other times. This would seem very much in the tradition you’re describing . . .

Dave.

 

[DBT]

. . . BTW, I really enjoyed the quotes by Richard Rolle and Ven. John of St. Samson. While I never heard the term “monologic” before, I do believe and agree with you that one of the fruits of the contemplative life (whether cloistered or in the world) is an ever increasing tendancy toward simplicity and purity in our way of prayer.

Brother Lawrence is one expression of that . . . as is The Cloud and the two quotes you provided. It’s always a joy to me to see different writers expressing similiar spiritual realities – each in their own unique way.

Dave

 

[InLight247]

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=840549426&T1=dubay

This is a good series, I especially enjoy the “Teresa and Contemplation”. Fr. Dubay has good explanation of meditation, and comparison of Zen and Christian contemplation.

Just want to share with you in case you have not listened to it yet.

 

[terry45]

I am new to the forum, just wondering if anyone has any views on John Main’s Christian meditation. There are very little comments on him or Brother Laurence Freeman on the internet. Of courses they have their own website. www.wccm.org. It appears to be the same as centering prayer except they have a mantra Maranatha, use yoga positions for praying and have the Dela Lama as their Patron and teacher . Is this not syncretism which the catholic church speaks against?

 

[InLight247]

As a Catholic, I would not pay attention to anything other than Catholic teachings. If you are truly interested in contemplative prayer, don’t worry about any of those people you just mentioned. Focus on the classics, the writings of the Church Doctors.

 

[blessedstar]

I am new to the forum, just wondering if anyone has any views on John Main’s Christian meditation. There are very little comments on him or Brother Laurence Freeman on the internet. Of courses they have their own website. www.wccm.org. It appears to be the same as centering prayer except they have a mantra Maranatha, use yoga positions for praying and have the Dela Lama as their Patron and teacher . Is this not syncretism which the catholic church speaks against?

Catholicism is Catholicism and Buddhism is Buddhism.

Birds of a feather flock together; if you are Catholic fly only with what is Catholic.

We may be respectful of others beliefs as they have elements of truth within them.We have the fullness of Truth, we don’t need to borrow anything from anywhere else. Therefore other beliefs have much to learn from Catholicism and not vice versa.

In my prayers

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I am new to the forum, just wondering if anyone has any views on John Main’s Christian meditation. There are very little comments on him or Brother Laurence Freeman on the internet. Of courses they have their own website. www.wccm.org. It appears to be the same as centering prayer except they have a mantra Maranatha, use yoga positions for praying and have the Dela Lama as their Patron and teacher . Is this not syncretism which the catholic church speaks against?

Sigh, one again, misinformation!

They don’t have the Dela Lama as their patron and teacher, but have had dialog with him and have respect for him. He also has respect of Catholicism. Can this be bad?

Back in the late 60’s, Pope Paul VI, asked the monastic orders to begin dialog with Eastern Religions,(in response to the number of young Catholics who were leaving the Church and getting into Eastern Religions), so that they could learn what it was in the Eastern Religions that was drawing young people to them and to see what common beliefs we share. Fr. Thomas Keating, Thomas Merton and others, came to learn that what young people were being drawn to in Eastern Religions, was always in the Catholic Church, but it was not being taught. Contemplative prayer, is a rich part of Catholic Church, but before Vatican II for the most part, was kept within monastic communities and for clergy. Christian meditation, also known as Centering Prayer, came out of this dialog, and is well rooted in the Church, and we knew it by other names such as “mental prayer” or “quit prayer.”

In the teaching of Centering Prayer, they do not teach people to sit in Yoga positions, but rather, sit in positions that are part of our culture and for those of us in the West, that means a comfortable chair.

Also, the so called mantra, Maranatha means “Come Lord,” and comes from Sacred Scripture. In Centering Prayer it is called the Sacred Word, and each person chooses one that is right for them. The Sacred Word I use is, “Lord Jesus.”

Either way, the debate in this forum goes on and from what I have learned, it is based on misinformation. However, many have come to understand what its about and are not so much against it anymore.

In Christ Jesus
Jim

 

[terry45]

Sigh, one again, misinformation!
I believe you are misinformed .!!

They don’t have the Dela Lama as their patron and teacher, but have had dialog with him and have respect for him.

1. From their website …On June 1 Fr Laurence met with His Holiness the Dalai Lama who was giving teachings in Glasgow, Scotland. The Dalai Lama, who is a patron of The World Community, led the 1994 John Main Seminar, ‘The Good Heart’……. also…In December 1998 …, Pilgrimage, brought a broadly based group of monks, lay-people and scholars to India…for three days of prayer and reflection on the different meanings of enlightenment, liberation and salvation with the Dalai Lama and other Buddhists.
2. He also has respect of Catholicism. Can this be bad? He is missionizing Catholics
3. Back in the late 60’s, Pope Paul VI, asked the monastic orders to begin dialog with Eastern Religions….*yes he said to explore not to join them *
4. Contemplative prayer, is a rich part of Catholic Church….*Yes if you are speaking of St Theresa Of Avila …who warned against the dangers of using techniques and said union with God and mystical experiences are the grace of God only, and that meditation be directed to and with God .What you are talking about is NEW AGE Christian meditation and centering prayer . *
5. Christian meditation, also known as Centering Prayer, came out of this dialog, *NO syncretism came out of it *6. In the teaching of Centering Prayer, they do not teach people to sit in Yoga positions, . *Perhaps in centering prayer they do not sit in the Lotus position but John Main says in his book Christian meditation -your daily practice “The yoga position and breathing exercise is an excellent spiritual practice for the body” Yoga exercise … the Yoga position is in itself a Hindu prayer a yoking to God Their GOD . All positions in Yoga are prayers to different Gods . *
6. Also, the so called mantra, Maranatha means “Come Lord,” At the end of the 20th century, Benedictine monk John Main pioneered a Christian form of meditation that was influenced by his study with a Hindu master. He taught a form of meditation using the word maranatha (Aramaic for “Come, Lord”) as a mantra. Sitting cross-legged, the meditator chants (either aloud or silently) “ma-ra-na-tha” for 20 minutes daily. The teachings of Brother Main and others became so popular that the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a letter to all Catholic bishops in 1989, entitled “Some Aspects of Christian Meditation” to guide the bishops in their leadership of churches that were using meditation (80)
   **Some Aspects of Christian meditation go to Meditationhttp://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMED.HTMVatican on NEW age **vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

 

[JimR-OCDS]

terry,
it was you who came into this thread asking the questions, but now have all this information, which I can’t seem to find or their website. I wonder what your actual agenda was?

The Delai Lama may be a patron of the WCCM, they are not a patrons of his.

The Delai Lama is a respected world leader of a major religion. Having him speak at one of their seminars is not a problem, nor is he missionizing Catholics as you state. Buddhist don’t evangelize as Christians do. They present their story and let the listener decide the path they want to take.

Also, Thomas Keating, Thomas Merton and John Main, are not joining Buddhism or Hinduism as you claim. They are as Catholic as any one and perhaps more so, because their faith isn’t threatened by learning and listening to people of other religions.

Also the Vatican letter you site, had to do with New Age religion, not centering prayer.

St. Teresa of Avila was an advocate of mental prayer, which Centering prayer is. Brother Laurence’s Practicing the Presence of God, is the essence of Centering Prayer.

I’m not going to argue about it, its really not conducive toward spiritual growth.

I just want to point out that you are taking things out of context and misinterpreting this issue.

I still have to question your agenda for coming in, asking the question, and then arguing about the answer? You obviously already had your mind made up.

Peace
Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Further, this is what WCCM teaches about Christian Mediation in comparison to Transcendential Meditation.

Q. How is this different from other forms of meditation, like Transcendental Meditation, or other forms of contemplative prayer? How does meditation help us to relate to other people?

A. The answer to both questions is “unity.” First of all, it is important to see what meditation in the Christian tradition that we are talking about shares in common with other traditions, as well as how it may differ. The unity in meditation is more important for us to reflect on. But what makes meditation different as a spiritual practice is that it is not practised as a technique. There is a world of difference between meditating as a technique and meditating as a discipline. We are technologically conditioned and so we think that it is a great technique to discover. We think, “I will use this and see what I get out of it. How I can improve my performance. And I can let go of it if it does not help.” But as a discipline, we bring a dimension of faith and perseverance to meditation. Perhaps we have to practise for some time before we really understand what that faith means. But this is why it is important that meditation is taught as a spiritual discipline rather than a technique because, to put it crudely, you’re more likely to get the best results from it as a spiritual discipline, simply because you are more likely to persevere. With faith as your motivating force there is more reason to persevere.
What makes meditation Christian is your Christian faith. It isn’t the technique that makes it Christian – or Buddhist or Hindu. It is the faith that you bring to it. That is why it is such a marvelous way for each person, whatever their faith, to fulfill their faith journey and personally verify the truths of their faith while, at the same time, sharing deeply a spiritual experience with people of other faiths. The terrible error is saying, “Well, I believe in my faith, and that means that somebody else’s faith must be wrong.” Logically, intellectually, that is where we get stuck. But at the level of the spirit, we experience unity, and unity is what meditation leads us to. This becomes quite a perceptible reality as you meditate in a group. You don’t communicate through language or through the body when you meditate. But there is a deeper communication at work. You will find, too, that when you have meditated with someone you relate to them quite differently and more easily, from a deeper level of personal unity.

As stated above, it is not used as a technique.

Peace
Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The Method of Centering Prayer, as taught by Fr. Thomas Keating. OCSO

centeringprayer.com/methodcp.htm

Peace
Jim

 

[Greg27]

One should also definitely not overlook the Christian monastic tradition and the riches it has. Amoung these are the beautiful ‘Cloud of Unknowing’, whose prayer method is much like that used in centering prayer (in fact Menninger et al base the method a lot on the Cloud, which was written well before Christianity had any contact with Eastern Religions, so there is nothing unorthodox about it). It is unfortunate sometimes the ‘prayer word’ is labelled a mantra, which might confuse the meaning of a perfectly orthodox prayer method and put Catholics off from a beautiful part of contemplative tradition.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

One should also definitely not overlook the Christian monastic tradition and the riches it has. Amoung these are the beautiful ‘Cloud of Unknowing’, whose prayer method is much like that used in centering prayer (in fact Menninger et al base the method a lot on the Cloud, which was written well before Christianity had any contact with Eastern Religions, so there is nothing unorthodox about it). It is unfortunate sometimes the ‘prayer word’ is labelled a mantra, which might confuse the meaning of a perfectly orthodox prayer method and put Catholics off from a beautiful part of contemplative tradition.

I agree about the misunderstanding that the prayer world being labeled as a “mantra,” even though essentially, that’s what a prayer that is repeated, actually is. The prayers said in the Rosary and Chaplet of Divine Mercy, could be called “mantras.”

Fr. Keating always referred to it as a “Sacred Prayer Word,” which is what I’ve come accustomed to referring it as.

Jim

 

[terry45]

I have nothing further to say but leave you with what two Popes have said on the issue

Pope John Paul II said in his book Crossing the Threshold of Hope -“The Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of the Tibetans is a well-known figure in the West. I have met him a few times. He brings Buddhism to people of the Christian West, stirring up interest both in Buddhist spirituality and in its METHODS OF PRAYING……At various times, attempts to link this method with the Christian mystics have been made….despite similar aspects, there is a fundamental difference…….between Christianity and the religions of the Far East, in particular Buddhism, there is an essentially different way of perceiving the World. For Christians, the world is God’s creation, redeemed by Christ. It is in the world that man meets God……
For this reason it is not inappropriate to caution those Christians who enthusiastically welcome certain ideas originating in the religious traditions of the Far East – for example, techniques and methods of meditation and ascetical practice. In some quarters these have become fashionable, and are accepted rather uncritically. First one should know our own spiritual heritage well and consider whether it is right to set it aside lightly. Here we recall, if only in passing, the brief but important document of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith “on Certain Aspects of Christian Meditation” (10/15/1989).”
His Holiness John Paul II

And in **Some Aspcts of Christian Meditation **Cardinal Retzinger (Pope Bendeict the XVI) said “The emptiness which God requires is that of the renunciation of personal selfishness, not necessarily that of the renunciation of those created things which he has given us and among which he has placed us.”
He also said “techniques were subsequently identified and dismissed by St. Teresa of Avila who perceptively observed that “the very care taken not to think about anything will arouse the mind to think a great deal,””

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Clarifications Regarding Centering Prayer
by Father Thomas Keating
Cardinal Ratzinger’s Letter to the Bishons of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation was not directed at Centering Prayer, which is the traditional form of Christian prayer, but rather at those forms of meditative practice that actually incorporate the methods of Eastern meditation such as Zen and the use of Hindu mantras. The Letter is chiefly concerned with the integration of such techniques into the Christian faith. It does not forbid their use and indeed, states, 'That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions…cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace even in the midst of external pressures" (#28).

Having noted this affirmation of the value of Eastern practices when rightly integrated into Christian faith, may I point out that Centering Prayer is the one contemporary from of contemplative practice that does not
make use of any of these techniques. The quotation from the Letter that the gift of contemplative prayer can only be granted through the Holy Spirit is precisely what we teach. Nor does Centering Prayer encourage a privatized spiritual journey or the seeking of spiritual experiences, but rather fosters the complete surrender of self in faith and love that leads to divine union. There is much greater danger in concentrating on oneself in discursive meditation and in intercessory and affective prayer, especially if one is preoccupied with one’s own feelings and reflections. In Centering Prayer one is not reflecting on one’s self or one’s psychological states at all.

centeringprayer.com/newsltrs/1993spring.htm

Read the entire article at the link provided.

Christ Peace Be With You
Jim

 

[terry45]

Father Thomas Keating said “You see, a great many Christians had joined one or other of the Eastern disciplines in their youth because they couldn’t find any comparable depth of spirituality in the Christian milieu …………Our chief reason for presenting Centering Prayer was to contribute to the renewal of the Christian contemplative tradition, and thus to provide an option in the marketplace for Christians who would never have the time or inclination to learn an Eastern method of meditation.” Quote taken from centeringprayer.com/newsltrs/Summer06/TKInterview.htm.

To me that reads that centering prayer is just another way of marketing the Eastern method of Meditation to Christians!

From reading this site I get the impression the difference between Centering Prayer and Meditation is that Centering prayer uses koans which come from Zen Buddhism instead of the Mantras used by Hindus and Buddhists – but this is only my suspicion.

I feel that the comments above from Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI on Meditation given above apply to centering prayer – as it remains a meditation technique originating from another religion.

 

[blessedstar]

Personally I can’t abide centering prayer.

It takes away the work of the Holy Spirit and leaves the path of meditation and contemplation down to the dictates of men. Prayer is the work of the Holy Spirit and often His Ways (methods) of Prayer lead men down paths that are uncomfortable and sometimes unexpected and is not controlled by men, their breathing or repetition of words (infact often men lose control of their prayer when the Holy Spirit leads them). Centering Prayer aims to control prayer unlike any other methods of prayer such as Lectio Divinia. Therefore anyone who follows centering prayer may limit the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives and limit the depths of contemplation they may reach.

There comes a time when methods themselves do not suffice. God Himself will, by the souls due perseverance in prayer following the Holy Spirit, take the Prayer into Himself and this will lead to union. The soul has little to do here because God’s work is carried out in silence, dryness and the faithfulness of the soul in this.

Whilst we know we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit we also know God dwells without as well as within. Therefore to pursue to God ‘within’ solely can lead to a type of self-assured preconception and limitation of God based only on personal and internalised experience coloured by human brokeness and all its trappings and pitfalls.

New this, new that. There is nothing new. Men spend so much time seeking after the new when they do not know the depths and richness of the old ways of Prayer as the Holy Spirit has led souls for centuries, but leave these behind to find something they think is new but infact is not new but an error from another belief.

The internal journey with Jesus must not be seen as an inward gaze; this is not what the internal journey is. The internal journey consists of the clearing away of all that is disordered internally and its total transformation. To gaze inwardly to find God will not find Him. God illuminates what is internal by His Presence in the soul and we think we are learning something of Him, but infact we are learning what we are and only after a painful journey with hidden delights do we come to know God when all that is broken in humanity is stripped away which of course includes the flesh at death when men may only then truly behold God.

However God is not far off even though He is ‘without’ and ‘within’. He is intimately close to us both without and within. Even so this does not mean by inward looking to this ‘centre’ we are any closer to Him, it is the great paradox that God is always close to all men, but not all men are close to Him. The internal journey is led by the Holy Spirit to draw men close to God and method will not suffice and not all methods are good methods.

I have stated that the Catholic Faith is the One True Apostolic Faith, it is Christ’s Church and it is the fullness, richness and complete Truth in Christ. We have everything and everything outside of the Catholic faith is poverty by degrees of the truth. Why then impoverish the Truth with the poverty of other beliefs?

Buddhism is an internal journey to ‘self-enlightenment’ its methods are based on the belief that there is no God, how then can such methods aid those who believe in Christ Jesus to be transformed to His likeness and to find Him as Catholic Prayer is a transformation in faith to the likeness of Christ Jesus? It is pure nonsense.

Anyone seriously seeking to grow in prayer and faith in Christ Jesus should not practise centering prayer, that is my firm conviction.

However I realise that those who have gone with this method will defend it and not desire to abandon it because they have found satisfaction in it and I believe that satisfaction in it is a clear sign of its poverty. God does send consolations to souls primarily to strengthen them for the tough internal journey ahead and to impart His love to them, but we are not called to be comfortable, we are called to change and prayer more often than not can lead to dissatisfaction because the ‘self’ is not allowed to be comfortable as it is but is cut away at, is pruned, is reshaped and ultimately re-created in prayer and for the ‘self’ this is most unsatisfactory however for the soul it is eternally very satisfying!

In my Living Prayer of life.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Personally I can’t abide centering prayer.

It takes away the work of the Holy Spirit and leaves the path of meditation and contemplation down to the dictates of men. Prayer is the work of the Holy Spirit and often His Ways (methods) of Prayer lead men down paths that are uncomfortable and sometimes unexpected and is not controlled by men, their breathing or repetition of words (infact often men lose control of their prayer when the Holy Spirit leads them). Centering Prayer aims to control prayer unlike any other methods of prayer such as Lectio Divinia. Therefore anyone who follows centering prayer may limit the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives and limit the depths of contemplation they may reach.
.

Sorry but your comments above are in complete opposite of what Centering Prayer is. Centering Prayer does nothing more than make ourselves available to the Holy Spirit, who work’s in us. In no way is it ever taught, that it is CP or ourselves who do the work of transformation, but rather, it is Christ who transforms us.
Centering Prayer merely helps to remove the distractions which are impediments to prayer.

Anyway, I can see that people here have made up their minds, and no amount of information will get through the mental block they have set up against CP.

At this point, there’s no point in me trying to explain further.

God Bless
Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Father Thomas Keating said “You see, a great many Christians had joined one or other of the Eastern disciplines in their youth because they couldn’t find any comparable depth of spirituality in the Christian milieu …………Our chief reason for presenting Centering Prayer was to contribute to the renewal of the Christian contemplative tradition, and thus to provide an option in the marketplace for Christians who would never have the time or inclination to learn an Eastern method of meditation.” Quote taken from centeringprayer.com/newsltrs/Summer06/TKInterview.htm.

To me that reads that centering prayer is just another way of marketing the Eastern method of Meditation to Christians!

From reading this site I get the impression the difference between Centering Prayer and Meditation is that Centering prayer uses koans which come from Zen Buddhism instead of the Mantras used by Hindus and Buddhists – but this is only my suspicion.

I feel that the comments above from Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI on Meditation given above apply to centering prayer – as it remains a meditation technique originating from another religion.

I can understand that if you pull pieces out of context, how you will end up misunderstanding what is actually said. Its one of the errors fundamentalist make in reading the Bible.

above you edited out the part,

“In fact, many have said to me, that had they known there was a Christian contemplative practice, they wouldn’t have gone to the East.”

and you ignored the part before that.

TK: Actually, Centering Prayer began around 1976 at St. Joseph’s Abbey, after a year’s trial of a method taught by Fr. William Meninger and based on the Cloud of Unknowing. After I resigned as abbot, I intended to focus on ecumenical and interreligious dialogue, but I became more and more involved with the Centering Prayer movement. This eventually grew into a spiritual network called Contemplative Outreach at the end of 1984. There has been some tension for me in trying to serve both interreligious dialogue and Contemplative Outreach.

However, you seem to be serving an agenda here, rather than learning about Centering prayer and there is a obvious mental block in this forum, whenever Eastern Religion is mentioned. Not all things in Eastern Religion are bad, even Pope John Paul II has said so and he said we could learn from them.

At this point, there’s really no point in going further with it.

God Bless
Jim