Contemplativeprayer.net

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JimR-OCDS said:
Another misleading puritanical post. I wonder why the people who write such stuff, never talk with Father Keating?

You folks must’ve swallowed your tongues when Pope John Paul II, said all religions have germs of truth, and when he embraced the Dali Lama?

Gesh
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I’ve been lurking alot on this particular forum and finally decided I had to start posting. I’m an aspirant with the Secular Discalced Carmelites so have a great deal of interest in this topic.

I would have to say that for me, prayer is possibly one of the most important aspects if not the most in my faith. I quoted Jim R above for a very specific reason. The test that Jesus gives us for anything is the fruit. Your statement shows a lack of charity and it saddens me. Next to our prayer life should be our striving for holiness and sanctity - we are all called to be saints. The fruit of the Spirit is the test of such prayer methods, and your words don’t set a very good example.

Deekod 1967 - I checked that website that you posted at the start. There is one warning bell that rings for me. Fr William giving a talk on the use of enneagrams. This is classic New Age philosophy and syncretism. I invite you to read this article:

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1004

In addition to St John of the Cross, St Teresa of Avila, and St Therese, Fr Dubay (all excellent reading) you might also appreciate ‘Carmelite Spirituality in the Teresian Tradition’ by Paul-Marie of the Cross, OCD. This is an excellent introductory book to Carmelite Saints and contemplation.

In Jesus and Mary,
Lucy
 
Many thanks to all for your posts.

This recent interest of mine in CP was I think God’s way of reminding me and also bringing me back to one of my earliest the strongest form of prayer I have known - the Holy Rosary.

After weak catechesis in my youth my faith never fourished till I met a practising Catholic girlfiriend, although she was a Cafeteria Catholic that was what I needed to bring me closer to the Faith. I developed a strong and somewhat child-like devotion to Our Lady and the Rosary - I never knew that I should meditate on the mysteries, my mind simply ran to the areas of my life needing God’s light and love - I now know I was practicing CP without knowing it.

SInce then my faith has been a real roller coaster ride, constantly trying to develop my faith, then losing faith only to come back (you all know the story i am sure!). I tried lectio divina, divine office, scriptural Rosary and nothing seemed to give me what I needed.

Recently I have been on a real “dip” family life has taken its toll on my prayer time and I am sorry to say I havent been frequenting the sacraments as i should.

I wanted to find God again, and after looking into various forms of meditative / CP from contemplative prayer to ignatian prayer on ipods! - now I have rediscovered my love for meditation and CP using the Rosary - but letting my mind go to the areas of my life that the Spirit wants me to revisit in the light of God’s love, I cannot recommend it highly enough! - go on - give it a try!
 
Derek,

Centering prayer is more about emptying your mind than bringing specifics to God for light. That’s petitionary prayer. Centering prayer is a particular technique for achieving stillness in the mind and heart so that the person can learn to “be” with God. Contemplative prayer is ancient, and it is not a technique. Centering prayer can prepare a person for contemplative prayer.

I recommend Evelyn Underhills’ Mysticism as the place to begin your study. It’s magnificent and should be easy enough to find in paperback.
 
ThisOne said:
Derek,

Centering prayer is a particular technique for achieving stillness in the mind and heart so that the person can learn to “be” with God.
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CP helps a person to develop the capacity to wait upon God with loving attentiveness. Resting in God’s presence, we receive the unconditional love.

We all have been wounded on our life’s journey. According to the CP teaching, the unarticulated emotional wound could come to us during practicing CP. It is called “unloading the unconscious”. This unloading may be painful. But our growing trust in God enables us to enduring the healing process. (from “Intimacy with God” by Thomas Keating)

So, other than only a technique of leading to contemplation, CP also involves modern psychology, and the healer is the loving Christ.
 
Thank you, InLight247. I wasn’t aware of that. I knew CP from years ago, mainly from Pennington’s book(s), but evidently I didn’t absorb it all. Many thanks for this information.
 
ThisOne said:
Thank you, InLight247. I wasn’t aware of that. I knew CP from years ago, mainly from Pennington’s book(s), but evidently I didn’t absorb it all. Many thanks for this information.
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You are welcome. Just sharing something from my reading.
God bless!
 
ThisOne said:
Derek,

I recommend Evelyn Underhills’ Mysticism as the place to begin your study. It’s magnificent and should be easy enough to find in paperback.
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You can get this in pdf form from www.CCEL.org

Along with lots of other fine stuff…

Cheers
Gareth
 
Joysong said:
FYI…

Earlier in the thread, mention was made about Contemplative Outreach’s Website. I was on the internet looking up a rating for something else, and discovered coincidentally, that this one had a red danger rating on it.

http://www.catholicculture.org/images/clear.gif
http://www.catholicculture.org/images/bullet_red.gif Contemplative Outreach, Ltd. (Review)
http://www.catholicculture.org/images/clear.gif
Site: centeringprayer.com/ (Red)
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And what gives Contemplative Outreach Ltd, the authority to judge centeringprayer.com?
 
Jim,

The owner of this website is Jeffrey Mirus, who is highly renoun and revered for orthodoxy. Formerly, Catholic Culture was called PetersNet and they have been in the ministry of rating websites for some time. Many refer to these reviews for guidance. I merely furnished the link for the benefit of those reading this thread, and none of us can determine how they will assess the information. It’s up to them to decide in prayer whether to heed the “danger” which was not listed simply as a “caution.”
1996-Present:Founded PetersNet (web site), began new apostolic outreach by partnering with various other Catholic organizations to maintain Internet infrastructures, including Catholic World News

1996:Established EWTN Online Services for Mother Angelica (Merged CRNet with EWTN, put it on the Internet)
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As we have discussed over these past weeks, a person wishing to delve into this aspect of prayer needs to have spiritual guidance before they attempt to embrace it.
 
Joysong said:
Jim,

The owner of this website is Jeffrey Mirus, who is highly renoun and revered for orthodoxy. Formerly, Catholic Culture was called PetersNet and they have been in the ministry of rating websites for some time. Many refer to these reviews for guidance. I merely furnished the link for the benefit of those reading this thread, and none of us can determine how they will assess the information. It’s up to them to decide in prayer whether to heed the “danger” which was not listed simply as a “caution.”

As we have discussed over these past weeks, a person wishing to delve into this aspect of prayer needs to have spiritual guidance before they attempt to embrace it.
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I think Father Keating, have far more expertise in spiritual guidence than Jeffery Mirus.

I would caution anyone wishing to grow spiritually, from reading stuff from Mirus’s site. Your spiritual growth will be limited to discursively reciting prayers by rote.
 
Your spiritual growth will be limited to discursively reciting prayers by rote.
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And, as a Carmelite, Jim, you should remember that discursive prayer, if engaged in with the heart and mind, often leads to contemplative prayer. It is taught by St. Teresa in Way of Perfection. One ought not to pooh-pooh it in favor of more exalted forms.
 
Joysong said:
And, as a Carmelite, Jim, you should remember that discursive prayer, if engaged in with the heart and mind, often leads to contemplative prayer. It is taught by St. Teresa in Way of Perfection. One ought not to pooh-pooh it in favor of more exalted forms.
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This is true, if taught that way and you’re more likely to learn it from Father Keating than from Jeffrey Mirus.
 
JimR:
I gave myself the authority to judge what he wrote about Father Keating.
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Dear Jim:

None of us knows who actually wrote the site review on centering prayer, but I believe it is gathered from many others, assessed, and printed as a review of what many say. I doubt it was a personal opinion exclusively of Mr. Mirus, and I doubt it was a commentary exclusively of Father Keating … but rather the concept of centering prayer, per se.

Rightly so did the site issue a warning, for as we discussed many times throughout these types of threads, there is definitely a misconception and potential harm to the faithful if the practice is not properly understood.

I remind all of us about the parts of the mystical body written by St. Paul:
1 Cor: 12:16
And if the ear should say, because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were the eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling?
23 And such as we think to be the less honourable members of the body, about these we put more abundant honour.
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It is not wise to call Mr. Mirus’s ministry less honorable or worthy than Keatings, for that is a judgment that is likely to be faulty.
Let’s say, rather, that each has their own gifts.*
 
Joysong said:
Dear Jim:

None of us knows who actually wrote the site review on centering prayer, but I believe it is gathered from many others, assessed, and printed as a review of what many say. I doubt it was a personal opinion exclusively of Mr. Mirus, and I doubt it was a commentary exclusively of Father Keating … but rather the concept of centering prayer, per se.

Rightly so did the site issue a warning, for as we discussed many times throughout these types of threads, there is definitely a misconception and potential harm to the faithful if the practice is not properly understood.

I remind all of us about the parts of the mystical body written by St. Paul:
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It is not wise to call Mr. Mirus’s ministry less honorable or worthy than Keatings, for that is a judgment that is likely to be faulty.
Let’s say, rather, that each has their own gifts.*

I find it hypocritical of you to post an article posted Mr. Mirus, which attacks Fr. Keating’s ministry and Centering Prayer, but tell me that I can not criticize that article or the person responsible for publishing misinformation on the subject.
And my only comment of Mr Mirus is that I would trust Fr. Keating on spiritual direction than Mr. Mirus.

I’m sorry if you don’t like my comments defending Centering Prayer and Father Keating.

However, as long as you post misinformation, I will continue to respond to it.

I’m not trying to turn this into a war as you seem to suggets. But really, what is your intention here? Many people in this forum have already expressed their love for Centering Prayer and for Fr. Keating. Yet you continue to take shots at it.

Jim
 
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Joysong:
I merely furnished the link for the benefit of those reading this thread, and none of us can determine how they will assess the information. It’s up to them to decide in prayer whether to heed the “danger” which was not listed simply as a “caution.”
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Jim, just a reminder of my intentions, which were stated earlier and clearly.
JimR:
I would caution anyone wishing to grow spiritually, from reading stuff from Mirus’s site. Your spiritual growth will be limited to discursively reciting prayers by rote.
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This is an elitist attitude that speaks to me of pride that one way is superior to another, leaving out the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit and confining Him to CP. It is also judgmental, suggesting that one may never grow spiritually if they read Mirus’s documents. As I touch your spirit in many of your posts, it seems that you value only CP and denigrate other forms as being less worthy. THAT is what I defend … the right to be an eye or ear in the Body of Christ, and that CP is not the “head.”
 
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