Contemporary music at mass

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LumberJack said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Which is a bit sketchy if you ask me…
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He had a PhD in Music. I didn’t.
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Sketchy in that anyone would use an instrument to “pretend” to be the move of God. Quite frankly I think that would be reason alone not to trust the Organ.
 
The Protestant Church I grew up in and the one I attended before I converted both had impressive old organs. Music was a big part of the church culture. My city happens to have a lot of great organs and organists. I’ve certainly been very moved at times by the organ in a skilled organists hands (and feet).
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
Sketchy in that anyone would use an instrument to “pretend” to be the move of God. Quite frankly I think that would be reason alone not to trust the Organ.
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I don’t think the organist was pretending. Music is a way to reach God as is anything beautiful which stirs the soul is.
 
The connection between the physical and spiritual is important and unavoidable. Why did Christ need to become man to manifest divinity? Same reasoning.
A pipe organ has it’s own unique way of expressing the divine. It breathes like a human being for one thing.
Art is beautiful
Nature.
Etc…
Catholicism is somewhat unique in it’s appreciation for the divine/human connection.
 
LumberJack said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Sketchy in that anyone would use an instrument to “pretend” to be the move of God. Quite frankly I think that would be reason alone not to trust the Organ.
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Same I guess goes for stained glass… Lots of pretty colours: ruby, emerald, sapphire; churches are aligned with the path of the sun…

Matthew 6
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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But one has the choice to look at a window or not. One does not have the choice to avoid music that bounces harmonic resonance through one’s body.
 
LumberJack said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
But one has the choice to look at a window or not. One does not have the choice to avoid music that bounces harmonic resonance through one’s body.
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Back in the middle ages most couldn’t read and the windows told stories in glorious technicolour.

Nowadays people understand the basics of harmonics and refraction. Back then they didn’t.

This is the East window of my village church above the altar. The church dates back to 600 AD. It’s pretty hard to ignore.
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Which goes back to the magical thinking that I was talking about. Promoting magical thinking as part of religion isn’t really going to help anyone.
 
LumberJack said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Which goes back to the magical thinking that I was talking about. Promoting magical thinking as part of religion isn’t really going to help anyone.
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How does it differ from contemporary marketing?
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Because it is for the purpose of sales.

God’s word is good enough to stand on it’s own. Beautiful things can be collected and displayed because they show a dynamic of God.

But the “oooo wow magical” factor is just ick.

I don’t need to be marketed to in Church…I should be safe from those sorts of manipulative practices.
 
So why do you not have an issue with strange music in today’s masses?
 
Oh dear, it seems that I have a major problem … there isn’t much difference between the music selection I listen to and enjoy outside and inside the Church i.e. sacred music (in English because that is the only language I understand) and a little Catholic praise and worship. 🤔
 
If a person is a follower of Christ, I would hope they are not worldly! Otherwise, they are not following Christ’s teachings! In the world, not of the world.
 
I’d like to find the bishop that let that sort of music pass and give him a few words!
 
Quick story from a homily one of my parish’s priest gave about 3 years ago. A homily I heard myself.

A woman went to five parishes seeking absolution for the sin of homosexuality. (Father didn’t give details, but I’m hoping the woman realized her sin and repented and then sought absolution). The five priests she visited previously would not absolve her. Told her it was who she was and not a sin. Thankfully she persevered and found our parish. And this is in Michigan…not California.

I’m sure that Fr. Ripperger, Fr. Wolfe and all the wonderful, holy priests at Sensus Fidelium would also have done the right thing by the woman seeking absolution…so if Fr. R’s opinions contrast with most Bishops, priests and deacons…I’m thinking that’s a great thing. To dismiss such orthodox teaching would, in MY opinion be ignorant.
 
Can you give one or two examples of where Father is often wrong?
 
Debbie_Kono said:
A woman went to five parishes seeking absolution for the sin of homosexuality. (Father didn’t give details, but I’m hoping the woman realized her sin and repented and then sought absolution).
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Aside from the issue that experiencing homosexual inclinations is not a sin, it’s very bad of your priest to include a specific story of confession. Others here will know better than me, but your priest has probably violated canon law, as well as discouraging others in your parish from going to confession and risking having their issues trumpeted from the altar.

I hope his bishop finds out about this.
 
LumberJack said:
One could say the same of music as it has evolved or devolved depending on your point of view.
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I have to mention here that polyphony has been controversial.

I remember hearing that initially, there were concerns that the technique made it very difficult to make out the words, and so the beauty and complexity of the music was an obstacle to worship.
 
I posted a link from Sensus Fidelium on “Music and its Influence on a Culture”. I then mentioned that Fr. Ripperger also has a teaching about music and its influence. To where (name removed by moderator) replied:

And then I gave the example with a 5 to 1 ratio where 5 priests got it wrong debunking the good Deacon’s claim that “one priest” and his opinions contrast with those of MOST Bishops, priests and deacons…it’s not that hard a concept to grasp.
 
Debbie_Kono said:
And then I gave the example with a 5 to 1 ratio where 5 priests got it wrong debunking the good Deacon’s claim that “one priest” and his opinions contrast with those of MOST Bishops, priests and deacons…it’s not that hard a concept to grasp.
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What did they get wrong? You cannot get absolution for SSA, as that is not a sin. For individual acts, you can get absolution. If someone gave absolution for SSA, then that priest got it wrong and the other five were right.
 
LumberJack said:
There are techniques to use polyphony so that it can be understood. Here is an example based on John 1, written late 16th century:
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Very interesting!

Not a music person (I just pay for kid music lessons), but there were some pretty dissonant patches in that at the beginning, weren’t there?
 
If you like, I can post the link to the entire write up on the Merit of the Mass by Fr. Ripperger.
 
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