G
Greg_McPherran
Guest
Boy, he never letās me off that easy.But, I know what you mean
- Status
I
itsjustdave1988
Guest
Iām trying to be kinder and gentler.Boy, he never letās me off that easy.
K
kmktexas
Guest
Itās not that easy. Yes, itās common knowledge that the Church oposes BC but that doesnāt necessarily translate into an awareness of sin. I am a text book example. I was catechized in the 60ās and 70ās. I went to public high school and there was no religious ed available after 8th grade. Believe me, no one in those days was talking about BC to 13 year old Catholic school girls!
So, yes, I knew the Pope didnāt approve of BC. But I never equated it with mortal sin. The Church says you should go to Confession regularly and you should give generously in the collection and you shouldnāt use BC. There was no clear, commonly available teaching about sin (any sin). Priests didnāt preach about it. This was way before the internet. The priest that did my pre-cannaa said it was a matter of individual conscience.
Fast forward 13 years. New parish, great priest who talks about sin all the time. Got āvolulnteeredā to teach CCE so I read a brief catechism overview to prepare my self. WOW - wake up call! So that takes care of me but there are likely hundreds or thousands of others who donāt have this particular set of circumstances to bring awareness.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Greg,
While I understand what you are saying I do not think it lessens the culpability in any way. Its sort of like the āI was only following ordersā defense.
It is our responisbility to see that our conscience is properly formed. The Catechism is out there and easy to get.
The Teachings of the Church are out there an easily found out.
If one chooses to rely on someone else for this stuff and those chosen teach error, then it is the fault of those following.
You can not tell me that there are Catholics out there that do not know the Teaching. Even if their priest says otherwise they still have heard the Truth at somepoint. They have chosen to follow the easy way.
G
Greg_McPherran
Guest
Hi David,
No one enjoys a situation where half the clergy donāt even support them in following the teaching authority of the Church.
When you do realize you are being lied to, you loathe the lies. Then you get hurt by a consistent environment of the Church that opposes your faith in the Church itself. Truly, this is insane and incredibly pathetic. It is incompetence, ignorance and corruption. It is a serious evil and denies people their rights to the truth faith.
If priests donāt affect morality then I guess we donāt need them for teaching at all.
They give sermons and advice in confession so obviously what they teach is an important element of the faith.
Also, you ignore the community of the Church. Christianity is a community, a Body.
From Veritatis Splendor
vatican.va/edocs/ENG0222/__P2.HTM
āā¦an overall and systematic calling into question of traditional moral doctrineā¦ā
āā¦the Magisterium itself is considered capable of intervening in matters of morality only in order to āexhort consciencesāā¦ā
āWe are speaking of a mentality which affects, often in a profound, extensive and all-embracing way, even the attitudes and behaviour of Christians, whose faith is weakenedā
You see Dave, the dissent calls into question the very teachings of the faith that we can study to overcome our ignorance. Faith in the Churchās teaching is lessened to a matter of opinion. Once you declare that certain teachings are not infallible and a matter of opinion, then you open a whole new door where each Catholic can subjectively determine if a supposedly ānot infallibleā teaching applies to them. This is exactly the mentality engendered by the climate. One book says this and one priest says itās not infallible. So the whole mentality of Catholics toward Church teachings is changed.
I myself have started to wonder what is going on, such is the powerful effect of dissent. I start to question the Church as to how we can operate this way. Nonetheless, I attempt to stand firm, but I must say, I have started to wonder a bit. I am not sure when given advice on situations if the advice is based on sound principle or it just comes from a dissenting view.
Itās really a bad situation. Clearly, the Pope has stated that dissent ***does affect ***people.
To both Daves, I completely respect your points and I donāt wish to debate about this. I am just saying that the widespread opposition by many priests has an effect on laity. I also donāt deny that maybe the culture has affected some priests but this still feeds back to sincere Catholics.
Even if you overcome the ignorance, it is disheartening and darkening that the climate of your own Church opposes your own desire the follow the Church leadership. It is truly pathetic.
I know I am a weak sinner and I need Godās mercy but I donāt like lies and misguidance.
Greg
No one enjoys a situation where half the clergy donāt even support them in following the teaching authority of the Church.
When you do realize you are being lied to, you loathe the lies. Then you get hurt by a consistent environment of the Church that opposes your faith in the Church itself. Truly, this is insane and incredibly pathetic. It is incompetence, ignorance and corruption. It is a serious evil and denies people their rights to the truth faith.
If priests donāt affect morality then I guess we donāt need them for teaching at all.
They give sermons and advice in confession so obviously what they teach is an important element of the faith.Also, you ignore the community of the Church. Christianity is a community, a Body.
From Veritatis Splendor
vatican.va/edocs/ENG0222/__P2.HTM
āā¦an overall and systematic calling into question of traditional moral doctrineā¦ā
āā¦the Magisterium itself is considered capable of intervening in matters of morality only in order to āexhort consciencesāā¦ā
āWe are speaking of a mentality which affects, often in a profound, extensive and all-embracing way, even the attitudes and behaviour of Christians, whose faith is weakenedā
You see Dave, the dissent calls into question the very teachings of the faith that we can study to overcome our ignorance. Faith in the Churchās teaching is lessened to a matter of opinion. Once you declare that certain teachings are not infallible and a matter of opinion, then you open a whole new door where each Catholic can subjectively determine if a supposedly ānot infallibleā teaching applies to them. This is exactly the mentality engendered by the climate. One book says this and one priest says itās not infallible. So the whole mentality of Catholics toward Church teachings is changed.
I myself have started to wonder what is going on, such is the powerful effect of dissent. I start to question the Church as to how we can operate this way. Nonetheless, I attempt to stand firm, but I must say, I have started to wonder a bit. I am not sure when given advice on situations if the advice is based on sound principle or it just comes from a dissenting view.
Itās really a bad situation. Clearly, the Pope has stated that dissent ***does affect ***people.
To both Daves, I completely respect your points and I donāt wish to debate about this. I am just saying that the widespread opposition by many priests has an effect on laity. I also donāt deny that maybe the culture has affected some priests but this still feeds back to sincere Catholics.
Even if you overcome the ignorance, it is disheartening and darkening that the climate of your own Church opposes your own desire the follow the Church leadership. It is truly pathetic.
I know I am a weak sinner and I need Godās mercy but I donāt like lies and misguidance.
Greg
B
Black_Jaque
Guest
Byzcath,
Beware of an element of sloth in your statement. It comes close to shirking your responsibility to bring other people to Christ. I mean, if the Truth is that easy to grasp, then we donāt really have to do much evangelizing do we?
Yes, and in my story what I ran up against was a priests word vs. a book called the Catechism of the Catholic Church. A big part of my struggle was not knowing what credence to give the CCC. It wasnāt around when I was a kid, it just showed up all of a sudden.
Beware of an element of sloth in your statement. It comes close to shirking your responsibility to bring other people to Christ. I mean, if the Truth is that easy to grasp, then we donāt really have to do much evangelizing do we?
- Status