Contraception Ban: Be fruitful and overpopulate?

[puzzleannie]

If I’m ignorant of some vital aspect to the whole contraception issue, I apologize in advance, but…

With a near exponentially-increasing world population (now I hear we’re supposed to hit 8-billion-or-so by 2050), eventually we’re going to hit the point where the divine mandate to “Be fruitful and multiply” will be – in my opinion – overfulfilled. One way or another, humans are going to become their own parasite, and overpopulation (yes, that it is what this thread is all about) will need to be combatted if we are to obey the other famous mandate to be good stewards of the earth. ?).

you need to update your research. half the globe is experiencing the opposite problem. you also have to drop the outdated idea that too many people is the reason for dwindling resource. unchecked greed and consumption among the very small segment of the population that controls wealth and resources is the cause for scarcity of any commodity, from food to minerals.

concern about population pressure comes exclusively from the wealthy, the poor don’t share your concern. example: bottled water companies are invading poor countries and poor areas, consuming their limited supplies of safe water, in order to sell it to those who can afford it in plastic bottles that consume more resources and are contaminating landfills at an exponential rate. lets start contracepting plastic.

 

[Newbie2]

With a near exponentially-increasing world population (now I hear we’re supposed to hit 8-billion-or-so by 2050), eventually we’re going to hit the point where the divine mandate to “Be fruitful and multiply” will be – in my opinion – overfulfilled.

.

Sure. But a worldwide plague would certainly change things, no?

 

[Yerusalyim]

The estimates I’ve looked at say the world population will probably top out at 9 billion…a number easily supported by the world…after that, say 18 billion, we’ll have to star terraforming Mars and the moon…but not until then.

Yes, NFP works.

 

[lukewarm]

I’m losing my job due to “right sizing” our company, I’ve been fortunate to avoid layoffs for two years but come 8 months the entire department will be outsourced. Currently my daughter is 8 months and my son is 6, we will need day care for them when my wife goes back to work. If I have another child we will not be able to afford day care and my wife won’t be able to work. Even now without another child I doubt my ability to keep us in our home. Another child would be a complete disaster. If it means hell so be it, I have to provide for the family I do have. God isn’t going to pay my mortgage.

 

[mercygate]

The OP needs to learn WHAT the Church ACTUALLY TEACHES on contraception before he/she connects it with overpopulation.

This thread is not about overpopulation.

This thread is about knowing one small point of WHAT the Church teaches (ban on contraception) without any understanding whatsoever of the “WHY” and “HOW” it works. This is a ubiquitous fault among those who challenge Catholic teaching.

This thread exemplifies provocative ignorance in its purest form.

 

[pumpkinbeast]

God isn’t going to pay my mortgage.

Have you tried asking Him to see if He will? God will provide; ask, and it shall be given to you…

In the mean time, look into NFP. Sounds like you have a just reason to use it.

 

[mercygate]

I’m losing my job due to “right sizing” our company, I’ve been fortunate to avoid layoffs for two years but come 8 months the entire department will be outsourced. Currently my daughter is 8 months and my son is 6, we will need day care for them when my wife goes back to work. If I have another child we will not be able to afford day care and my wife won’t be able to work. Even now without another child I doubt my ability to keep us in our home. Another child would be a complete disaster. If it means hell so be it, I have to provide for the family I do have. God isn’t going to pay my mortgage.

First, my GREAT sympathy for your situation. Nobody who has not been there can quite appreciate the panic that comes with unemployment in the face of family obligations.

Definitely, this would not be a good time for you to invite another child into your family.

But again, you speak as one who has never heard of NFP.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I’m losing my job due to “right sizing” our company, I’ve been fortunate to avoid layoffs for two years but come 8 months the entire department will be outsourced. Currently my daughter is 8 months and my son is 6, we will need day care for them when my wife goes back to work. If I have another child we will not be able to afford day care and my wife won’t be able to work. Even now without another child I doubt my ability to keep us in our home. Another child would be a complete disaster. If it means hell so be it, I have to provide for the family I do have. God isn’t going to pay my mortgage.

Again, I echo the others concern for you and for what you are going through. I will remember you and your family in my prayers. Not that it will help you pay the bills, but I do not have money left over at the end of the month to give you, so all I can offer is my support, prayers and advice.

This is coming from a father of 3 children (9, 4, 2) and baby #4 on the way. We live paycheck to paycheck. We do not have the fancy things in life. Our biggest asset is our house and our minivan. I work 2 jobs to make ends meet for our family. We do our best to cut costs as best as we can. But let me tell you that I know what it is like to get paid, pay the bills get the necessities and pray that nothing major comes up for the next 2 weeks until you get paid again. No need to run the credit cards up anymore either.

We use NFP and know that it greatly benefits us in our marriage and we have used it both to conceive and to avoid. It is effective. It does work. Mother Church knows what she is talking about when it comes to the whole ABC vs. NFP debate. It is possible to use NFP effectively. It will take sacrifice, self discipline and constant communication with your spouse.

I know what it is like to wonder where the money is going to come from to pay for the bills, when my 2nd child was born I lost my job as well. Wanna be scared straight…look into a future of a newborn child and a wife and a son without an income. God provided for us. We had to make sacrifices, but that is what is called for that is what we do. As a father and as a husband, I was called to “man up” and do what I had to do for my family. I had to be the one to step up, put my faith in the good Lord and move forward. Still using NFP all that time as well. Sacrifice? You bet your bottom dollar it was! But we got through it, and we are so much stronger now than ever. Still learning, still sacrificing, still giving, still struggling, but still relying on God.

When we walk on water and start to sink, just remember Jesus is there with His hand outstretched waiting for you to grab it. Will you?

 

[DanteAlighieri]

I’m losing my job due to “right sizing” our company, I’ve been fortunate to avoid layoffs for two years but come 8 months the entire department will be outsourced. Currently my daughter is 8 months and my son is 6, we will need day care for them when my wife goes back to work. If I have another child we will not be able to afford day care and my wife won’t be able to work. Even now without another child I doubt my ability to keep us in our home. Another child would be a complete disaster. If it means hell so be it, I have to provide for the family I do have. God isn’t going to pay my mortgage.

Have you really given thought to what you said here? Are you really willing to surrender your soul that easily – over hunger? Yes, I know you have children to feed, but that shouldn’t cause you to endanger your soul in this way.

I heartily agree with those who are pointing you to NFP. The only certain way to ensure that you and your husband don’t have any children during this rough time is to abstain from sex – not indefinitely; only when you’re fertile. Use condoms or the pill, and your chances of an “accident” increase. What can possibly be more effective than not doing it?

I’m praying for you!

Peace,
Dante

 

[gardenswithkids]

I’m losing my job due to “right sizing” our company, I’ve been fortunate to avoid layoffs for two years but come 8 months the entire department will be outsourced. Currently my daughter is 8 months and my son is 6, we will need day care for them when my wife goes back to work. If I have another child we will not be able to afford day care and my wife won’t be able to work. Even now without another child I doubt my ability to keep us in our home. Another child would be a complete disaster. If it means hell so be it, I have to provide for the family I do have. God isn’t going to pay my mortgage.

I don’t want to take this thread off the topic of over-population, but this situation also illustrates the larger issue. People who use contraception wish to engage in sex while often regarding the children that might result from sex as a “disaster”. ***Like all humans, children are made in the image and likeness of God. A child is a gift from God, not a “complete disaster” ***

Nevertheless, given the circumstances you report, it may be a good idea for you and your wife to either use NFP carefully or stop having sex. Children result from sex, and using contraception while having sex doesn’t guarantee your wife won’t get pregnant.

I am sorry about your impending job loss. That must be difficult to face. Maybe a way you could provide for your children is by you personally provinding care for them while your wife works.

 

[lukewarm]

I don’t want to take this thread off the topic of over-population, but your individual circumstances brought up a specific example that illustrates the larger issue. People who use contraception usually wish to continue engaging in sexual relations while often regarding the children that might result from sex as a “disaster”. ***Like all humans, children are made in the image and likeness of God. A child is a gift from God, not a “complete disaster” ***

Nevertheless, given the circumstances you report, it may be a good idea for you and your wife to either use NFP carefully or stop having sex. Children result from sex, and using contraception while having sex doesn’t guarantee your wife won’t get pregnant.

I am sorry about your impending job loss. That must be difficult to face. Maybe a way you could provide for the children you already have by you personally provinding care for the children while your wife works, and by lovingly abstaining from relations with your wife.

My wife will not use NFP she doesn’t believe it to be effective, niether do I frankly. I would never give up my ability to earn and be a house husband ever that isn’t even a possibility, not until men get more parity in the US court system. Plus my wife makes half of what I do, it wouldn’t come close to supporting us and paying the bills. We both have to work to pay the mortgage and basic bills. We have a mortgage, day care, car payment, student loan, cable, electric, gas, insurance, phone. I have one inactive credit card I am paying down. Other than that we live on what we make. We can’t cut anything else, it’s not possible.

In the West, in our society yes children can be a form of financial disaster. It may sound cold but that is the reality.

And while God may provide, He also may not, isn’t that the conumdrum? If you are provided for God did it, if you aren’t and your family is tossed out in the street while your personal effects are auctioned off, well God still did it, but for a reason only He knows.

Some people do succumb to financial crisis and lose everything, it happens. Whether they pray or are faithful has little if anything to do with the outcome. Plenty of good faithful people are desperately poor and downtrodden.

 

[mercygate]

My wife will not use NFP she doesn’t believe it to be effective, niether do I frankly. I would never give up my ability to earn and be a house husband ever that isn’t even a possibility, not until men get more parity in the US court system. Plus my wife makes half of what I do, it wouldn’t come close to supporting us and paying the bills. We both have to work to pay the mortgage and basic bills. We have a mortgage, day care, car payment, student loan, cable, electric, gas, insurance, phone. I have one inactive credit card I am paying down. Other than that we live on what we make. We can’t cut anything else, it’s not possible.

In the West, in our society yes children can be a form of financial disaster. It may sound cold but that is the reality.

And while God may provide, He also may not, isn’t that the conumdrum? If you are provided for God did it, if you aren’t and your family is tossed out in the street while your personal effects are auctioned off, well God still did it, but for a reason only He knows.

Some people do succumb to financial crisis and lose everything, it happens. Whether they pray or are faithful has little if anything to do with the outcome. Plenty of good faithful people are desperately poor and downtrodden.

How much do you really know about NFP? Sounds like you’re thinking of the old rhythm method.

This job loss could be the best thing that ever happened to you if it prompts you to look deeper into the mystery of human dignity.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

If I’m ignorant of some vital aspect to the whole contraception issue, I apologize in advance, but…

With a near exponentially-increasing world population (now I hear we’re supposed to hit 8-billion-or-so by 2050), eventually we’re going to hit the point where the divine mandate to “Be fruitful and multiply” will be – in my opinion – overfulfilled. One way or another, humans are going to become their own parasite, and overpopulation (yes, that it is what this thread is all about) will need to be combatted if we are to obey the other famous mandate to be good stewards of the earth. Of course, I doubt anyone’s approach to this would seriously be to stop having sex, on a account of how big it is in the functioning of the human being (as well as the whole husband-wife-union bonding deal).

So inevitably, it’s going to get to the point where banning artificial contraception would be ludicrous, so why promote such a thing now? Can doctrines only be temporary?

Or, is everyone just secretly hoping the world ends within the next fifty years so we can forget all our silly little planetary/natural resource limitations (Did you know that the world has only a 61 years supply of Copper left?).

Every time (note the word every) someone makes the prediction that we would run out of some critical resource, we either find more, or we find a better alternative. If we only have 61 years of copper left, then expect within the next 25-30 years, someone will discover something that will render the use of copper unnecessary. It is already happening. Most communications are swtiching from copper wiring to fiber optics, and the world has an essentially unlimited supply of silicone from which to make fiber threads. Regarding crude oil, many scientists are coming to believe in the abiogenic origin of crude oil, meaning it it created by the earth itself and has nothing to do with dead dinosaurs. To say that we will breed ourselves out of sustainability is somehow admitting that GOd lacked the foresight to create enough resources in the first place. I am not bold enough to make that claim.

 

[mercygate]

Every time (note the word every) someone makes the prediction that we would run out of some critical resource, we either find more, or we find a better alternative. If we only have 61 years of copper left, then expect within the next 25-30 years, someone will discover something that will render the use of copper unnecessary. It is already happening. Most communications are swtiching from copper wiring to fiber optics, and the world has an essentially unlimited supply of silicone from which to make fiber threads. Regarding crude oil, many scientists are coming to believe in the abiogenic origin of crude oil, meaning it it created by the earth itself and has nothing to do with dead dinosaurs. To say that we will breed ourselves out of sustainability is somehow admitting that GOd lacked the foresight to create enough resources in the first place. I am not bold enough to make that claim.

And you have not even mentioned the development of more consistent and technically efficient recycling.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

And you have not even mentioned the development of more consistent and technically efficient recycling.

I tried not to be too specific with methodologies, as it would require entire volumes of books of space., but I think you get the point I was trying to make.

 

[mercygate]

I tried not to be too specific with methodologies, as it would require entire volumes of books of space., but I think you get the point I was trying to make.

Affirmative.

 

[SPH1]

So inevitably, it’s going to get to the point where banning artificial contraception would be ludicrous, so why promote such a thing now? Can doctrines only be temporary?

Actually, my understanding is that we have a population shortage in the West. We are not reproducing to replace and support the previous generation. That’s partially why so many worker immigrants flood into the West.

Some contraception advocates like to use the altruistic rationale of population/environmental control. But in practice, it is much more selfish. People simply don’t wish to be bothered with (larger) families.

 

[YinYangMom]

My wife will not use NFP she doesn’t believe it to be effective, niether do I frankly.

So, you’re basically saying here that providing for your children means the world to you, even your soul, but apparently not as much as sexual relations with your wife. Being able to have sex ranks higher on the scale of priorities than making sure your kids are provided for.

Don’t you think you and your wife would give up your lives to save those of your children? That’s what abstinence - particularly under strenuous temporary situations - is about. Dying to yourself so that your children won’t have to suffer.

Using NFP you could still engage in sexual relations but you don’t believe in that method so you choose contraceptives.

But contraceptives lie. They provide a false sense of security. You are willing to place all your confidence and trust to not conceive on a manmade product implemented by men/women capable of human error in applying those methods. But you aren’t willing to trust the one absolutely certain method to avoid pregnancy - voluntary abstinence from sexual relations for a temporary timeframe - something you have absolute control over! No middle men. No gadgets. No chemicals. Just your own self-mastery.

Makes no sense to me why anyone would put their desire to have sex whenever they want to over responsibly caring for their family.

 

[YinYangMom]

To say that we will breed ourselves out of sustainability is somehow admitting that GOd lacked the foresight to create enough resources in the first place. I am not bold enough to make that claim.

Nicely put

 

[lukewarm]

Makes no sense to me why anyone would put their desire to have sex whenever they want to over responsibly caring for their family.

Yeah me and the little lady are sex obsessed deviants who laugh at our impending poverty and take the food out of our childrens mouths so we can afford more contraceptives…

Yours is a very judgmental and frankly bizarre response.