Contraception in marriage...very special case

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None of these people have ever been in your position.
I have been in exactly this position.
8 physicians had done all they could to put me back together after I had almost died giving birth to child #5 and said there was zero chance I would ever survive another pregnancy because I had torn way beyond repair internally.

I was told by the Roman Catholic priest, who was then assistant pastor, and who is now a pastor, that it would be “the irresponsible equivalent of driving down the highway causing accidents” if I did not accept and support my husband’s decision to have a vasectomy. They would not perform such a thing at the Catholic hospital, however, of course, they had certain rules to publicly uphold. He explained that public teachings to uphold are one thing in society, and that personal cases and issues are something that are separately considered.

That was my own personal experience of this issue in the Catholic Church; make of it what you will.
 
This is not a matter to come to an internet forum for an answer. None of these people have ever been in your position.
Excuse me? Because of danger to my health, my husband and I practiced NFP to avoid for 15+ years.
 
Dear sir, it seems to me that you and your wife cannot afford NOT to use natural family planning.

There is no form of artificial contraception that tells you when your wife is ovulating. And all forms of birth control have a known failure rate, same as natural family planning. That means, whenever you have sex while your wife is ovulating – even WITH artificial contraception – you are risking pregnancy, and thus her life.

What would you do if the contraception you are using fails and she gets pregnant?

What you need is an extreme form of natural family planning. Your wife’s life depends on it, so I am certain it will not be impossible for you to accept this burden. What you will do with Billings or Creighton or whatever other method is map out when your wife is ovulating and abstain from all sex starting at day 1 until three days after the last sign of ovulation. This will amount to anywhere from 15-20 days of abstinence from the beginning of her cycle until three days post ovulation, but you’ll be free to have sex afterward, until the next cycle resumes. This way, there will be no chance of your sperm being present in her system when she has an egg present.

Best of all, it will alleviate the burden of sin and leave you free to return to full communion with the Church once again.
 
Even if one priest says it’s okay to use contraception, he is wrong. Priests are human too, they can sin and give bad advice.

To the OP, I can see your struggle with the Catholic Church. Your arguments are common from someone who once was Protestant, or really any non-Catholic. The “where is that in the Bible” is common from those who were taught Sola Scriptura.

However, being as the Catholic Church was given to us by Jesus, we also have Tradition to follow, the teachings of the Catholic Church. So even if it doesn’t explicitly say in the Bible “Contraception is a mortal sin” does not make it untrue. For instance, where in the Bible does it say “abortion is a mortal sin, or even that abortion is wrong”? No where. Yet, we all know it is because of what the Bible and the Catholic Church say about life and when it begins.

You are not going to find everything explicitly written out for you in the Bible. That is why there are the teachings of the Catholic Church. They are here to guide us in life for the instances where the Bible does not lay it out for us.

If you have not read the book “Rome Sweet Home” by Scott Hahn, I would suggest it. He does help lay out the reasons why Sola Scriptura does not hold up.
 
Pregnancy is a huge risk for my wife.
For me, the most acceptable answer is of the “former catholic”. the problem we talk about is the matter between me, my wife and God.

I’ll say only the following and that woukd be all from me…
  1. I have to protect my wife as much as I can: I do not think God wants me to risk her life.
  2. I do not think God wants us to abstain from being intimate.
  3. If, regardless of our protection measures, conception occurs, we’ll accept it as God’s will.
God bless you all.

P.S.
“Double moral”, one for public, the other one practised, is something that is killing Catholic Church from the very top of hierarchy. Why does the Catholic Church want to hide all homosexual and pedophile crimes of their own priests??
God bless them and enlight them all.
Before I begin…it seems that you have a few other issues with Catholic teaching - what you mention here in the P.S. as well as earlier posts. I’d suggest you start another thread for those topics, so that they don’t get lost in this discussion.

Ok, so first, I understand that pregnancy is a huge risk. That’s why I suggested you look into the www.ccli.org website. I’m not saying you MUST use their method. Only that some people, when using a combination of temperatures and mucus observations, can say WITH CERTAINTY that they have ovulated. And you don’t ovulate over and over again in one cycle. So if you find that the “phase 3 rules” end up giving you the confidence to KNOW that your wife has already ovulated, then you can wait more than 3-4 days like the average person, just to be safe. Wait 5 days, or 7 days if you like. If you look at the statistics, you’ll be able to see which types of NFP produce what levels of effectiveness. If you’ve only practiced the Billings method, you really should look into the sympto-thermal method before you decide that NFP is not workable.

And as I said before, if the risk is too big for even the low risk of an extremely conservative use of NFP, then abstinence IS an option. Perhaps not one you want to consider, but when faced with such a difficult problem, sometimes you have to consider what you used to think was unthinkable. And abstinence will give you much better odds than NFP + condoms.

So, yes, waiting until the last couple days of your cycle AND adding artificial birth control MIGHT give you better odds of avoiding pregnancy than NFP alone (although that’s not the case if you are certain that you have ovulated). But where does this get you from an eternal standpoint? You’re Catholic, you understand the value of confession, you have a strong enough conscience to know that you are not in a position to be absolved or to receive communion. But absolution and the Eucharist are not your goal. Heaven is. Forgiveness in Confession and the Eucharist are tools provided to us by God to help us get to Heaven. So look beyond the short term problem of missing out on the sacraments, to the long term goal that they are pointing towards. THIS is what the Church is concerned with, and this is why the Church would dare to challenge you to make such a sacrifice in your life - she is trying to get you to Heaven too. And as you probably know, God’s laws don’t change simply because they become inconvenient for us. They don’t even change when they require great sacrifice. God’s laws don’t change, period. They’re not whims.

I can’t say that I’ve been in your shoes, so of course, I can’t totally empathize with how difficult this must be for you. But ultimately, I’m simply telling you what I know our Church teaches about these matters. No it’s not great for a marriage (in most cases) to abstain from sex. But it’s worse for a marriage, and worse for the health of your soul, to mutilate the sacrament with contraception.

And speaking to those who are chiding the OP/us for coming here for answers…this is a Catholic message board. Naturally, there is going to be a strong Catholic perspective. The OP has free will, and doesn’t need to do what we say he should. But as a Catholic struggling with a dilemma, it is honorable that he is seeking advice from within his faith. I’m don’t think he needs to seek out the non-Catholic answer. It’s already clear that the non-Catholic answer would be to do what he would like to do.
 
Excuse me? Because of danger to my health, my husband and I practiced NFP to avoid for 15+ years.
It’s true NFP works!!! have personal knowledge! - Couple to Couple League sympto-thermal and it does work - better than contraceptives. All contraceptives are unhealthy for women and men too. Condoms are not safe to use - have side effects including increased bladder disease as well as a cause of latex allergy and damage to the woman’s parts. Condoms are pretty worthless for birth control if you look at the numbers.
For me, if i thought having marital relations with my spouse might possibly kill him I wouldn’t. period. From your description of her problems i wonder that she is well enough to engage in sexual intercourse? aren’t you afraid of hurting her?
I don’t mean to be obnoxious here but the facts show that contraceptives have side effects and that the failure rates are up to 40%.
As Sparki777 said
"Dear sir, it seems to me that you and your wife cannot afford NOT to use natural family planning.

There is no form of artificial contraception that tells you when your wife is ovulating. And all forms of birth control have a known failure rate, same as natural family planning. That means, whenever you have sex while your wife is ovulating – even WITH artificial contraception – you are risking pregnancy, and thus her life."
BTW
Has anyone here besides me maybe smelled troll between confused1111 and formercatholic? i wasn’t sure at first but reading some of the posts my nose has been twitchin’ perhaps this thread would be better off in another forum.
 
I have been in exactly this position.
Excuse me? Because of danger to my health, my husband and I practiced NFP to avoid for 15+ years.
I would say you have been in a similar position. But we all have our uniqueness.

But in the end the point of my post was that coming here for “validation” to use birth control is not a good idea. If things are that serious, then you need to talk with your priest who is closer to the situation.

The Church teaches what the Church teaches, you either accept it or you don’t. Everyone thinks their case is a “special” case. Yes, some priests may encourage or accept the use of birth control. Yes, very many Catholics embrace the use of birth control. And yes their are those who don’t accept the Catholic Church’s authority who have no issue with birth control.

But the fact remains you cannot truly accept the Church, and practice birth control.

And if you want to debate that teaching, this is not the forum to do so in.
 
I would say you have been in a similar position. But we all have our uniqueness.

But in the end the point of my post was that coming here for “validation” to use birth control is not a good idea. If things are that serious, then you need to talk with your priest who is closer to the situation.

The Church teaches what the Church teaches, you either accept it or you don’t. Everyone thinks their case is a “special” case. Yes, some priests may encourage or accept the use of birth control. Yes, very many Catholics embrace the use of birth control. And yes their are those who don’t accept the Catholic Church’s authority who have no issue with birth control.

**But the fact remains you cannot truly accept the Church, and practice birth control. **

And if you want to debate that teaching, this is not the forum to do so in.
You are partly right.
Catholics also practise birth control, the "natural"one.

The motif in both “cases” is the same: not to get a baby.
The only difference is that Catholics obey the Catechism, I do not.

Now, if I become a protestant, I’ll have the same motif as Caholics and will obey teaching of my protestant denomination.

Who is going to be “right” in the eyes of Jesus? Frankly, I do not know. But, you are sure that you are right.

Let’s leave Jesus to judge our intentions, minds, hearts and souls.

Many Catholics im my country are not moral enough for my taste. I’m not perfect as well. But, from my conversion (almost 9 years), I haven’t said one single lie (except a few to my little daughter: that was needed to stop her doing something), I haven’t said one single blasphemy; no “dirty” language one single time. No revenge, even to those people who harmed me pretty much.

Everyone has to find his own path to God. The obstacles in my life gave me an opportunity to critically reconsider the Catholic Church’s teaching and PRACTISE. I must admit I’m not pleased with it. (i.e. during the war in Croatia, our priests were blessing our weapons…I strongly doubt Jesus approved that. Otherwise, “to turn another cheek” would be a lie…And for sure it is not.)

You stick to your way, that’s your right.
I’ll choose what my heart, the Bible and, probabaly, some protestant Church tells me.
And Jesus will be the judge to all of us.

Have pure minds, hearts and souls; God’s peace and blessings to all of you.
 
You are partly right.
Catholics also practise birth control, the "natural"one.

The motif in both “cases” is the same: not to get a baby.
The only difference is that Catholics obey the Catechism, I do not.
But sir, you are missing the point. When faithful Catholics obey the Catechism while avoiding pregnancy, they are making a sacrifice – they are giving up sexual intercourse for a certain number of days. You, apparently, are unwilling to make that sacrifice. You want to indulge in sex when you want it, regardless of what sin you and your wife may be subjecting yourselves to.

Apart from the serious sin that you are insisting on committing – and insisting on making your wife commit – you have failed to answer a very important point I made, which is that NO artificial birth control can tell you when your wife is ovulating, and if she is truly in danger of death if she gets pregnant, you MUST find out when she ovulates because artificial birth control has a known failure rate.

When I was in a risky pregnancy, my husband not only gave up all sex to protect me and our child, he did it cheerfully. When we were in serious need of avoiding pregnancy to protect my health so that I could mother our kids, he not only gave up sex prior to ovulation + three days after, he did it cheerfully.

I know it sounds difficult, but this is your wife, the mother of your child. You can do this.
 
You are partly right.
Catholics also practise birth control, the "natural"one.

The motif in both “cases” is the same: not to get a baby.
The only difference is that Catholics obey the Catechism, I do not.

Now, if I become a protestant, I’ll have the same motif as Caholics and will obey teaching of my protestant denomination.

Who is going to be “right” in the eyes of Jesus? Frankly, I do not know. But, you are sure that you are right.

Let’s leave Jesus to judge our intentions, minds, hearts and souls.

Many Catholics im my country are not moral enough for my taste. I’m not perfect as well. But, from my conversion (almost 9 years), I haven’t said one single lie (except a few to my little daughter: that was needed to stop her doing something), I haven’t said one single blasphemy; no “dirty” language one single time. No revenge, even to those people who harmed me pretty much.

Everyone has to find his own path to God. The obstacles in my life gave me an opportunity to critically reconsider the Catholic Church’s teaching and PRACTISE. I must admit I’m not pleased with it. (i.e. during the war in Croatia, our priests were blessing our weapons…I strongly doubt Jesus approved that. Otherwise, “to turn another cheek” would be a lie…And for sure it is not.)

You stick to your way, that’s your right.
I’ll choose what my heart, the Bible and, probabaly, some protestant Church tells me.
And Jesus will be the judge to all of us.

Have pure minds, hearts and souls; God’s peace and blessings to all of you.
The motive may be the same but it is different in that there is obedience to what God teaches us about the use of human sexuality. To put in perspective let’s take something else that has the same motive: money needed to eat and sleep indoors. One method of gettting that is to go out and work at a job which is praiseworthy. Another method of getting that is to go out and rob someone - that is not good. One thing about most protestant faiths is they seem to throw reason aside when it comes the major truth that the way a good is gotten is as important as the good itself. Or as St. Thomas Aquinas (and others) put it that the end result does not justify the means used to obtain it if the means are against God’s law.

Which protestant teaching will you obey? There are so many different ideas as to what the Bible means: that’s why there are so many protestant faiths: every time someone has a different take on what they think God is telling them they start a new church. Jesus made a promise to those who follow Peter (the 1st Pope and those who followed him) that the gates of hell will not prevail. He didn’t make that promise to me or any other person. It is safe follow what God has revealed to His Church through St. Peter and his successors who have been chosen by the Holy Spirit. I know that I cannot figure out what is good or evil without the guidance of God and that I do not expect Him to speak directly to me (who am i to deserve that) when He has given and preserved His Church to teach me the path to Him-- and that is His most usual way of teaching and speaking to me/us along with the Bible (which needs to be read frequently and the Church also teaches this!)

Catholics are not perfect - no one said they were but what the Catholic Church teaches has been perfected by God. The Church is a hospital for sinners: we are all here getting healed of the sin of “doing our will” not His. Why do you think you need to leave the Church because you think you need to use contraception? No one is judging you but they are offering alternatives and trying to help you think this through according to what God teaches through His Church. They have shared their lives and thoughts with you on this. Isn’t that why you posted on this forum in the 1st place?

Why you made the comment about the priests blessing weapons in Croatia is puzzling to me? Why did you? Certainly there is such a thing as just war. If someone tried to kill your daughter wouldn’t you defend her? We are allowed to defend ourselves and what God has given to our care.

May God bless and guide you on your journey. i will say a prayer for you and your situation.
 
And one objection: personally, I do not agree with Catholic Churc teaching that majority of our orthodox and protestant brothers are condemned to hell. Namely, if you do not obey Rome and its rites, you are “on the wrong way” that leads to hell (there is “a stipulation” in the Catholic Churc teaching that just has to allow God’s mercy to save someone who is not Catholic. However, number of those people has to be marginal: otherwise, why to obey Catholic Church teaching at all, if everything is up to God’s independent judgement!?).

God bless you all! And if someone has comments to my story, please do write something here…

Greetings from Croatia!
Where did you hear this? This is not true. While the Church did teach something similar they do not anymore.

Do we believe that our brothers and sisters could find a fullness of Truth in our Catholic Faith, YES we do. But we do not condemn them to hell or teach that they are going there because they are not Catholic. In fact, as Catholic’s we don’t know the exact final moments of anyone’s life, many people we might not think are the best Christians or people could make a true act of contrition (as the Good thief did) at the moment of death. It’s not our place to judge that someone is in hell.

This would be especially true for our Orthodox brothers and sisters who still have a valid Eucharist. How could any Christian doubt the Faith of former Patriarch Pavle and the things he did for the people of Serbia and Croatia? and Patriarch Irinej is setting up a meeting for 2013 for all the Patriarchs and our Church and there is a good chance the Pope will be attending the meeting. I believe Benedict 16th understands the meaning of “First among equals” better than any Pope since the split almost 1000 years ago.

At the same time many Anglicans are coming home as well plus in certain instances the Church is allowing married Priests ordained in the Anglican rite to become Catholic Priests. We would not be doing this if the Church felt in general that all these groups were “going to hell in a handbasket” to quote an old southern phrase.

In regards to your question, you are in a very difficult situation. In a similar position, we have 4 sons now and my wife has heart problems, I probably didn’t make the best decision I could have. My suggestion is to keep praying about this and talk to your Priest about it. Birth control, in my opinion and from what I have read and experienced, is not a good medically for most women.

Some here will probably say, “well just don’t have sexual relations, sorry you have to bear that cross” but that offers little help and less comfort as they are not having to do that themselves.

Be thankful though that you have your wife and daughter, pray often, thanking God for them and asking for His guidance. He will help you know what is right for you to do and discuss those things with your Priest.

Sincerely,
Joe
 
The motive may be the same but it is different in that there is obedience to what God teaches us about the use of human sexuality. To put in perspective let’s take something else that has the same motive: money needed to eat and sleep indoors. One method of gettting that is to go out and work at a job which is praiseworthy. Another method of getting that is to go out and rob someone - that is not good. One thing about most protestant faiths is they seem to throw reason aside when it comes the major truth that the way a good is gotten is as important as the good itself. Or as St. Thomas Aquinas (and others) put it that the end result does not justify the means used to obtain it if the means are against God’s law.

Which protestant teaching will you obey? There are so many different ideas as to what the Bible means: that’s why there are so many protestant faiths: every time someone has a different take on what they think God is telling them they start a new church. Jesus made a promise to those who follow Peter (the 1st Pope and those who followed him) that the gates of hell will not prevail. He didn’t make that promise to me or any other person. It is safe follow what God has revealed to His Church through St. Peter and his successors who have been chosen by the Holy Spirit. I know that I cannot figure out what is good or evil without the guidance of God and that I do not expect Him to speak directly to me (who am i to deserve that) when He has given and preserved His Church to teach me the path to Him-- and that is His most usual way of teaching and speaking to me/us along with the Bible (which needs to be read frequently and the Church also teaches this!)

Catholics are not perfect - no one said they were but what the Catholic Church teaches has been perfected by God. The Church is a hospital for sinners: we are all here getting healed of the sin of “doing our will” not His. Why do you think you need to leave the Church because you think you need to use contraception? No one is judging you but they are offering alternatives and trying to help you think this through according to what God teaches through His Church. They have shared their lives and thoughts with you on this. Isn’t that why you posted on this forum in the 1st place?

Why you made the comment about the priests blessing weapons in Croatia is puzzling to me? Why did you? Certainly there is such a thing as just war. If someone tried to kill your daughter wouldn’t you defend her? We are allowed to defend ourselves and what God has given to our care.

May God bless and guide you on your journey. i will say a prayer for you and your situation.
Thank you for your good intentions and prayers.

Abot wars and “approved” killing…
Weapons must not be blessed. Period.
The main reason why I haven’t joined Croatian army was my fear that I’d be forced to kill someone. God has VERY CLEARLY forbidden murder, regardless of the circumstances. If you cannot protect your home peacefully, then you have to leave your home and not kill your occupier.

God clearly said: You must not kill. Period. This has been twisted by the Catholic Church into: You must not kill, unless you are seriously attacked (free interpretation). This is so obviously in contradiction with one of the main God’s commandments.

Back to the contraception.
Pure love for God implies NO CONTRACEPTION AT ALL. When you try to prevent pregnancy by “natural” contraception, you also try to “cheat God” and use your sexuality just for pleasure, not also for reproduction. . The contraception is always the contraception, natural or artificial.
If one wants to follow this conclusion thoroughly, the only way to avoid sin, if he/she does not want baby, is to abstain from having sex. That’s valid for all of us, either practising “natural” or artificial contraception.

St.Paul (Cor, the 1st): for married couples- be intimate (almost an order).

Pure logic implies:
  1. for healthy couples: be intimate; do not use any kind of contraception (sex is not created just for pleasure, which you try to reach practising “natural” contraception). This is the point where the Catechism is wrong (my opinion), Your only excuse is that you are obedient to the Church orders/recommendations.
  2. for “Ill” couples: be intimate; do not consciously endanger your partner’s life (try to protect it as much as you can, bc you should not kill!!!). That means the contraception can be justified in this case.
That’s the way I see the Bible.
God bless you all.
 
Confused,

Regarding the salvation of non-Catholics, it is not the teaching of the Church that non-Catholics will not be saved. That has never been the teaching of the Catholic Church, though the Church’s understanding of salvation has deepened.

Many have given their opinions here regarding what the Church teaches. I recommend you read it from the source, the Catechism of the Catholic Church: scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

This document is hard to read sometimes even for native English speakers, so try these explanatory documents: catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

ewtn.com/expert/answers/outside_the_church.htm

The short version is that there is no salvation outside the Church - the Church founded by Jesus is the only way. However, the question is who is “in” the Church. The Church has determined that people who are "invincibly ignorant " (people who honestly did not know) - which might even apply to those who have intellectually heard the gospel but didn’t believe it - may still be in the Church even if not objectively baptized with water.

What that means is that everyone who is saved will be saved through the Church - even if they don’t know it in this lifetime.

Furthermore, Jesus told us to judge not lest we be judged. In other words, we should not try to condemn anyone to Hell.

What that means is that the Church never says who is in Hell. Not even Judas. Pious speculation is that Judas is in Hell, but the Church has never ruled on the issue and I doubt it ever will.

We should always trust in God’s mercy for anyone who has died, no matter the circumstances that we see with our weak and fallible eyes. We cannot, must not, and should not even say that someone guilty of crimes as horrible as those committed by Adolf Hitler is in Hell.

As for your issue with your wife, I feel for you. That is really horrible. I can only say that all birth control can fail. Contrary to popular lies, proper natural family planning is more reliable than hormonal birth control or condoms - but if you want 100% then you will have to be abstinent.

That’s not a statement of judgement, but rather a statement of fact. No matter what kind of birth control you use there will be a chance for pregnancy. In view of this fact, why choose a form of family planning that God’s Church has determined is mortally sinful?

I will pray for you. God bless
 
Confused,

Regarding the salvation of non-Catholics, it is not the teaching of the Church that non-Catholics will not be saved. That has never been the teaching of the Catholic Church, though the Church’s understanding of salvation has deepened.

Many have given their opinions here regarding what the Church teaches. I recommend you read it from the source, the Catechism of the Catholic Church: scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

This document is hard to read sometimes even for native English speakers, so try these explanatory documents: catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

ewtn.com/expert/answers/outside_the_church.htm

The short version is that there is no salvation outside the Church - the Church founded by Jesus is the only way. However, there is a very big exception in the form of “invincible ignorance” (people who honestly did not know) - which might even apply to those who have intellectually heard the gospel but didn’t believe it.

What that means is that everyone who is saved will be saved through the Church - even if they don’t know it in this lifetime.

Furthermore, Jesus told us to judge not lest we be judged. In other words, we should not try to condemn anyone to Hell.

What that means is that the Church never says who is in Hell. Not even Judas. Pious speculation is that Judas is in Hell, but the Church has never ruled on the issue and I doubt it ever will.

We should always trust in God’s mercy for anyone who has died, no matter the circumstances that we see with our weak and fallible eyes. We cannot, must not, and should not even say that someone guilty of crimes as horrible as those committed by Adolf Hitler is in Hell.

As for your issue with your wife, I feel for you. That is really horrible. I can only say that all birth control can fail. Contrary to popular lies, proper natural family planning is more reliable than hormonal birth control or condoms - but if you want 100% then you will have to be abstinent.

That’s not a statement of judgement, but rather a statement of fact. No matter what kind of birth control you use there will be a chance for pregnancy. In view of this fact, **why choose a form of family planning that God’s Church **has determined is mortally sinful?

I will pray for you. God bless
I do not believe any more that Catholic Church, which cahanges God’s firm commandment “You should not kill (NO EXCEPTIONS!!)” is really God’s Church.
 
I do not believe any more that Catholic Church, which cahanges God’s firm commandment “You should not kill (NO EXCEPTIONS!!)” is really God’s Church.
Actually, it’s is You shall not MURDER…there is a difference.
 
I do not believe any more that Catholic Church, which cahanges God’s firm commandment “You should not kill (NO EXCEPTIONS!!)” is really God’s Church.
I don’t understand why you think the Church has changed God’s commandments?

The Bible itself has circumstances when killing is justified; the prohibition against killing is better understood as you shall not commit unjust killing. There’s a short article on this subject within this link: catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0404bt.asp. Basically, the problem boils down to the issue of translating the original Hebrew into other languages.

Nearly all codes of ethics that say killing is wrong provide justifications, such as defense of self, defense of others, etc. This is the natural law, God’s law.

As for the Church being really God’s Church, that comes from Jesus himself.

You believe in God, at least based on your posts.

Jesus claimed to be God. He was one of a liar, a crazy man, or he really is God. He wasn’t a liar or a crazy man, so he was God.

Jesus founded his Church on Peter. Matthew 16:18. Peter was the first pope, and there has been an unbroken chain of succession of popes since then. catholic.com/library/Peter_and_the_Papacy.asp

Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom Heaven, the authority to bind and loose. Matthew 16:19.

That means that God Himself founded the Church and gave to the Church His authority.

Therefore, the Catholic Church is God’s Church, and all who want to obey God should obey His Church.

Confused,

I can feel you hurting. You are in a terribly difficult situation, and I wish you and your wife every blessing and healing. Please do not let being confused or angry take you away from God’s Church.

You wont’ find the answer to your wife’s problem in the world. All birth control can fail; that’s just a scientific fact.

I will continue to pray for you.
 
You are partly right.
Catholics also practise birth control, the "natural"one.

The motif in both “cases” is the same: not to get a baby.
The only difference is that Catholics obey the Catechism, I do not.

Now, if I become a protestant, I’ll have the same motif as Caholics and will obey teaching of my protestant denomination.

Who is going to be “right” in the eyes of Jesus? Frankly, I do not know. But, you are sure that you are right.

Let’s leave Jesus to judge our intentions, minds, hearts and souls.

Many Catholics im my country are not moral enough for my taste. I’m not perfect as well. But, from my conversion (almost 9 years), I haven’t said one single lie (except a few to my little daughter: that was needed to stop her doing something), I haven’t said one single blasphemy; no “dirty” language one single time. No revenge, even to those people who harmed me pretty much.

Everyone has to find his own path to God. The obstacles in my life gave me an opportunity to critically reconsider the Catholic Church’s teaching and PRACTISE. I must admit I’m not pleased with it. (i.e. during the war in Croatia, our priests were blessing our weapons…I strongly doubt Jesus approved that. Otherwise, “to turn another cheek” would be a lie…And for sure it is not.)

You stick to your way, that’s your right.
I’ll choose what my heart, the Bible and, probabaly, some protestant Church tells me.
And Jesus will be the judge to all of us.

Have pure minds, hearts and souls; God’s peace and blessings to all of you.
Actually, I am not sure I am right. And I do not follow the teachings of the Catholic Church. I agree with you. I do not really see the difference between NFP and birth control. I have read the Church teachings many times, and still disagree.

I do not feel that my embrace with my dh is any less because I cannot possibly conceive. But we are on a Catholic forum, and they do hold the teaching of the Church to be the one true path. That is why I don’t understand coming here to this family forum to argue about it. There are forums on this site for that. But you are not going to find many people here to agree with you, at least not openly.
 
You know what you call people who use condoms to prevent pregnancy? Parents. If they fail when the woman is fertile…
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Yep, this happened to me (thank God!) before I came to the Catholic church and learned about the reason for forbidding the use of contraception. My husband and I had a very “Nine Months” (the movie with Hugh Grant) moment, where he was sure he could not possibly be the father of his child, because we had used condoms! I was furious with him at the time (because really, what did that make me, in his opinion?), but now that moment makes us laugh every time we recall it.
 
On the other side, Billing’s method will result with one prgnancy in 20 intercourses.
Okay, this is VERY important, many people get this wrong. Let’s say someone uses 95% birth control rate method, does this mean 5% of sexual acts will result in pregnancy? NO. This means that a couple having sex over a year, there is a 5% chance there will be pregnancy, NOT per intercourse, but per year.

Now I don’t know exactly what they consider ‘average number of intercourses’ per year but I would venture a guess, around 100? I’m not sure but this is just for probability purposes.

If it is 100, then that means, for a 95% birth-control effectiveness for 100 intercourses a year, that’s .05%, or 1 in 2000 chance per intercourse.
 
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9107chap.asp

WHAT DOES the Bible say about contraception? “Nothing!” reply many today–including some Catholic theologians and biblical scholars. Yet traditional manuals of moral theology cite Genesis 38:6-10 as an argument against contraception. Does this passage have anything to offer on the question? Let’s look at the text:

"Judah got a wife named Tamar for his firstborn, Er. But Er, Judah’s firstborn, greatly offended the Lord, so the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, ‘Unite with your brother’s widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother’s line.’

“Onan, however, knew that the descendents would not be counted as his; so, whenever he had relations with his brother’s widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the Lord, and the Lord took his life too.”

Onan was supposed to marry his deceased brother’s childless widow. This practice, known as the Levirate law (from the Latin levir, meaning “a husband’s brother”), was required by the Law of Moses (Deut. 25:5-10) and was intended to insure an unmarried brother would “raise up seed for the deceased brother that his name be not blotted out of Israel.”

The argument against contraception, specifically coitus interruptus, based on this passage used to be considered straightforward. In recent years, both Protestant and Catholic commentators have downplayed, if not outright rejected, the anti-contraception interpretation of this text. Their argument goes like this: Onan’s sin consisted solely in his abandonment of his familial obligations to his dead brother. Onan performed the act which bears his name because the child which might have resulted would have been counted as his brother’s, rather than his own–something Onan found intolerable.

The difficulty with this argument is that violation of the Levirate law was not a capital offense. If a man didn’t fulfill his obligations to his deceased brother’s wife, she was to take the matter to the elders, who would counsel him and try to persuade him to change his mind. If he persisted, the widow was to “go up to him and strip his sandal from his foot and spit in his face, saying publicly, ‘This is how one should be treated who will not build up his brother’s family!’” (Deut. 25:9).

While such a punishment might be embarrassing, it falls short of the death sentence Onan received for his act. This suggests he sinned not only by violating the Levirate law, but also by the way in which he did so. The kind of act he committed was so despicable that, in the Old Testament context, it was punishable by death.

John Kippley, in Covenant, Christ and Contraception (New York: Alba House, 1970, page 19), explains it this way:

“Onan went through the motions of the life-giving act but refused to accept the consequences. He withdrew in order that the act could carry no reproductive consequences . . . [H]e went through the motions of the Levirate covenant, but he denied the reality of that covenant.”

Catholic teaching regards marriage as a covenant which has as one of its constituent elements an openness to new life and the procreative good. Sexual intercourse involves a renewal of the marriage covenant. Contraceptive intercourse is a violation of that covenant because it acts directly against procreation, one of the basic goods of marriage.

By acting contraceptively, Onan robbed sexual intercourse of its life-giving meaning and acted against the good of his potential offspring’s life. Both his intent and his concrete actions were against life. As a result, Onan received the Old Testament penalty for his crime.
Why does no one mention the fact that Onan, in choosing to withdraw and prevent pregnancy, was actually sexually using and betraying his brother’s widow, who was in a rather desparate situation? I would think that Onan taking the opportunity to get sexual pleasure from his sister-in-law, while denying her any place in the family by giving her a baby that would tie her to the family for life, qualifies as sexual abuse in this instance. Why does no one ever mention this from the woman’s perspective? Is her feeling of betrayal and being used considered to be of no consequence in God’s eyes, according to the theologians?
 
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