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TheLittleLady
Guest
You ovulated before your first post-partum menstruation. Observing for that first ovulation is what can be tricky without an instructor.
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They won’t and shouldn’t. The basis upon which they have made this decision is rooted in a tradition of Catholic ethical thought and philosophy. Remember that scripture is not the only factor in Catholic moral teachings, reason comes into it as well.Didn’t say they had to change only maybe reconsider.
The fact that there are difficult scenarios does not make the overall teaching wrong.
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Ammi
Guest
Right. This is one of those Teachings that has been formally established. Contraception is intrinsically evil. This has been established and reaffirmed many times.
Culpability and blameworthiness under radical situations aside, when a married couple has been made aware (whether in conscience or taught) that the Church believes and professes contraception to be immoral, then there is a duty to uphold this in faith.
Neither can a priest advise contraception (for the intent to avoid pregnancy) without violating the Christian faith.
Culpability and blameworthiness under radical situations aside, when a married couple has been made aware (whether in conscience or taught) that the Church believes and professes contraception to be immoral, then there is a duty to uphold this in faith.
Neither can a priest advise contraception (for the intent to avoid pregnancy) without violating the Christian faith.
No, this is against Catholic teaching. Each act must be ordered toward procreation. If it isn’t it is as sinful as using a method of contraception.OK, at a risk of pointing out the obvious - there are sexual things that can be done that are pleasant for everyone involved and do not involve the risk of pregnancy.
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Leek
Guest
Sympto thermal, since it relies partially on temps and calculations it’s probably not the best method post pregnancy. There are post pregnancy rules but I didn’t bother trying them out.
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Leek
Guest
I often wondered about this thought experiment. What if men lived for a couple months under the assumption that THEY could get pregnant? Maybe their wife took some new nanotechnology or something lol. How would it change their outlook?
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kapp19
Guest
If you have not had a careful reading of Humanae Vitae, by now Saint Paul VI, that would be very important. “They” are the Mystical Body of Christ - which has the authority to give teachings that don’t “maybe need to be reconsidered,” which this moral question clearly falls into. If this doesn’t fit the bill for “ordinary magisterial teaching of the Church on morals,” (an infallible category of teaching) then nothing does.
Contraception is not a little pecadillo - and its long-term effects on individuals, families, and societies are nearly unimaginable. It is easy to see for those who wish not to be blind to it. The pill came, then no-fault divorce, then abortion, then gay pride, now transgender mania. Do you see the progression? It starts with trying to remove the necessity of having to face the possibility of lasting consequences for sexual acts, and it builds from there into a complete destruction of even the biological reality of sexual differentiation and permanence at all.
Simply not having relations when pregnancy is foreseen is a “non-act” rather than a willful distortion of the sexual faculty. It is very different. However, there is a mentality that also can warp NFP… there are dragons here too - but they are smaller.
Contraception is not a little pecadillo - and its long-term effects on individuals, families, and societies are nearly unimaginable. It is easy to see for those who wish not to be blind to it. The pill came, then no-fault divorce, then abortion, then gay pride, now transgender mania. Do you see the progression? It starts with trying to remove the necessity of having to face the possibility of lasting consequences for sexual acts, and it builds from there into a complete destruction of even the biological reality of sexual differentiation and permanence at all.
Simply not having relations when pregnancy is foreseen is a “non-act” rather than a willful distortion of the sexual faculty. It is very different. However, there is a mentality that also can warp NFP… there are dragons here too - but they are smaller.
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kapp19
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Like using contraception…?
The entire point is that the OP wants to follow the moral law of the Church, which law is taught by the Lord Himself. Hijacking the sexual faculty by willfully removing the conditions for its possible success as a system is an enormous offense against the God Who made that faculty primarily for that purpose, namely, procreation. The pleasures associated with the act are themselves ordered toward the procreative act’s frequency (and therefore final success) and also to the mutual care for the spouses as parents or potential parents. That excludes many acts considered “normal” in today’s sexual milieu…
The entire point is that the OP wants to follow the moral law of the Church, which law is taught by the Lord Himself. Hijacking the sexual faculty by willfully removing the conditions for its possible success as a system is an enormous offense against the God Who made that faculty primarily for that purpose, namely, procreation. The pleasures associated with the act are themselves ordered toward the procreative act’s frequency (and therefore final success) and also to the mutual care for the spouses as parents or potential parents. That excludes many acts considered “normal” in today’s sexual milieu…
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Agent94
Guest
I read in one of your comments that you never took an NFP course through your parish. The same with me. I learned a method after our 2nd was born. I’d suggest the Billings Ovulation Method. I tried to do the Marquette Method, but it was too expensive and I didn’t like having to carry around a monitor and sticks with me every time I travelled. I also didn’t like the Creighton Method as it was too complicated. But the Billings Method, wow, this method is the least expensive and easiest to learn and just as effective as any other method out there.
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1ke
Guest
No. That would be grave matter against the sixth commandment.OK, at a risk of pointing out the obvious - there are sexual things that can be done that are pleasant for everyone involved and do not involve the risk of pregnancy.
All acts of marital intimacy must preserve both the unitive and procreative meaning of the act— must be objectively ordered to both. Which means a completed act of intercourse.
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Werbenjagermenjensen
Guest
I’ve seen enough of what my wife has gone through to say I would simply not get married if that were the case. Every once in a while there is a technology comes along that makes the old way of doing things seem intolerable and downright crazy. That’s kinda of what the availability of effective contraception has done to the prospect of facing pregnancy after pregnancy with only breastfeeding or NFP to space births. It’s strange that women even used to look forward to and celebrate their wedding day knowing what lay ahead for them.
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Werbenjagermenjensen
Guest
I’m saying why would you go order from one restaurant and complain the whole time that they should serve food more like their competitor. If you prefer the food from their competitor why not just go there? If you want a church that permits contraception you pretty much have your pick.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Tech like Daysy
or Ava
Are meant to help STM monitoring.
or Ava
Are meant to help STM monitoring.
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Leek
Guest
That’s pretty cool, getting some easy to use tech that does the work for you and is reliable will be a game changer.
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Ralph
Guest
Thank you for your offer to leave the Church. I have no desire to do that . I’m a bit taken back by the charity so many here show such as youself. I’m sure your a fine Catholic and even possibly a fine Christian. I think for just offering a suggestion some of you already have judged me not worthy of your fellowship. That’s fine as I’ve enough fellowship.
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kapp19
Guest
You should not be shocked by the reaction - you are rejecting a clear teaching of the Church, which carries the prophetic Voice of the Lord, and this matter is clearly part of it (and is clearly taught by nature as well - revelation is not even necessary strictly speaking)… So, if you want to pick up your cross, and deny yourself, and follow Him, you can, otherwise… He lays out the consequences. He does not give three options.
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stacie
Guest
Wut? How is this committing adultery?
According to my sex ed class (I go to a Catholic high school) this is ok. Not sure where you are getting your information.
According to my sex ed class (I go to a Catholic high school) this is ok. Not sure where you are getting your information.
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1ke
Guest
The sixth commandment includes all sins against chastity and marriage. Disordered sex acts are sins against chastity and against marriage.Wut? How is this committing adultery?
I’m so sorry that a Catholic school would teach something against Church teaching.According to my sex ed class (I go to a Catholic high school) this is ok.
Or perhaps you misunderstood.
Well. The Catechism and every Church document on sexuality.Not sure where you are getting your information.
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure…masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action
2366 each and every marriage act must remain open ‘per se’ to the transmission of life…This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act
2370 every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil
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Ralph
Guest
Teaching or dogma. They are not the same. One , I believe, is infallible while the other , again, I believe is not. Please excuse me if I’m wrong. I’ve seen posts they say doctrine (teaching) are synonymous and that’s not my understanding. Again excuse me if I’m wrong. I’m any case let’s assume my understanding is correct. Doctrine has developed and I’m not sure if open to change. Now back to my original post. If doctrine is not dogma and isn’t infallible can it be later reconsidered? And if it could then as my original.post said I wish they would look at it again. By the way this in no way.effects me personally unless I’m the new Abraham which I assure you I’m not. Sorry I’ve seen to have hit such a nerve here. Hope we care for the poor and “the least of these” as we do this issue
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1ke
Guest
I would encourage you to read and study. Theology of the Body for teens, including books and multimedia from Christopher West and Jason & Christalina Evert would be a good start. Chastity.com is a good resource.
It’s unfortunate that the secular culture has so distorted God’s gift of our sexuality that you think sin is funny. That you think disordered sex acts are normal, or worse, good.
The truth is often difficult, Christ himself told us the path is narrow.
The Church can only continue on one path, communicating the truth of Christ.
It’s unfortunate that the secular culture has so distorted God’s gift of our sexuality that you think sin is funny. That you think disordered sex acts are normal, or worse, good.
Why is that? Are you not interested in the truth?But when some old geezer goes in preaching against the evils of masturbation, and hand jobs within marriage - all we can do is stiffle laughter. (In case of a young geezer we will laugh at him (and its always a him) openly.)
The truth is often difficult, Christ himself told us the path is narrow.
Laughter isn’t relevant in any way.Laughter is not the worst part though
The Truth has always alienated people from the Church. Sin is attractive and holiness can be difficult.The worst part is alienating people from the Church.
The Church can only continue on one path, communicating the truth of Christ.
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