When he previously was arguing the morality, a swing into politics instead of morality seems like quite a change.
One could read it as a concession given the seeming giving up on a particular argument.
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One could read it as a concession given the seeming giving up on a particular argument.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Yes, I am doing so because I do not hold myself out to be an expert in the field. I cannot, nor can anyone else IMO give the “specific” norms. The opinions I’ve expressed are no more or no less valid than those of the folks here who are opposed to Affirmative Action.You are side-stepping the question.
What exactly are the conditions necessary for AA to be unnecessary?
What specific norm in society is it aiming for?
By what standard is it being measured?
I’m sure of only one thing - it will not go well for the GOP if it moves to abolish the policy.
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rlg94086
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I don’t think it’s a concession. He is just revealing the truth about Democrats - votes are more imortant than supporting what is right.When he previously was arguing the morality, a swing into politics instead of morality seems like quite a change.
One could read it as a concession given the seeming giving up on a particular argument.
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Whitacre_Girl
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But the point here is that as Catholics, morality DOES matter. Abolishing abortion overnight would cause political and social fallout. But we, as Catholics, are called upon to all we can to end murder. Another intrinsic evil, racism, is something else we are called upon to end - in all forms!! Imagine if ol’ Abe Lincoln was worried about fallout and didn’t act to free slaves.He did not say that…just that morality/immorality doesn’t matter. What matters is how people vote.
To allow evil to continue so we can be “popular” or “safe” by our inaction or weak justification spits in the faces of the Holy Martyrs who gave their LIVES to defend what is right.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Cite the post where I made the claim that I speak for the black people.You were the one that claimed to speak for all of these people.
Now when called for it…
Then, there’ll be problem abolishing that policy, eh?You are attempting to defend the indefensible.
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Rich_Olszewski
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I don’t doubt that many black people choose morality - I see it at Mass in the black churches here in my city.It doesn’t really matter. I’m going to support the moral choice, not the popular choice. I believe that many black citizens will choose morality, as well.
But, as for AA, it is the moral choice according to you, not for millions of others, including the majority of black citizens.
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Rich_Olszewski
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And, of course, what is right is what the GOP believes to be right. Sure…I don’t think it’s a concession. He is just revealing the truth about Democrats - votes are more imortant than supporting what is right.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Can you cite anything our Catholic bishops have said about Affirmative Action being EVIL to substantiate that AA is wholly wrong and a policy that Catholics may not, in good faith, support?To allow evil to continue so we can be “popular” or “safe” by our inaction or weak justification spits in the faces of the Holy Martyrs who gave their LIVES to defend what is right.
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rlg94086
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Perhaps. There may very well be millions who consider racial discrimination moral. I’m not surprised that they vote Democrat.I don’t doubt that many black people choose morality - I see it at Mass in the black churches here in my city.
But, as for AA, it is the moral choice according to you, not for millions of others, including the majority of black citizens.
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rlg94086
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Not in all cases, but in the case of racial discrimination it appears to be the case.And, of course, what is right is what the GOP believes to be right. Sure…
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Rich_Olszewski
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Not all Republicans are opposed to Affirmative Action policies, and they’re not the RINOs that you folks like to make fun of. There are conservatives who find some merit in AA.Perhaps. There may very well be millions who consider racial discrimination moral. I’m not surprised that they vote Democrat.
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rlg94086
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My apologies… I’m not surprised that MOST of the people who think racial discrimination is moral vote Democrat.Not all Republicans are opposed to Affirmative Action policies, and they’re not the RINOs that you folks like to make fun of. There are conservatives who find some merit in AA.
Where have I made fun of RINOs? I abhor the term.
If you do not know this, then how can you claim it is needed?Yes, I am doing so because I do not hold myself out to be an expert in the field. I cannot, nor can anyone else IMO give the “specific” norms.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Accuracy is good.My apologies… I’m not surprised that MOST of the people who think racial discrimination is moral vote Democrat.
Used “you” in the collective sense, not you personally. Sorry it came across that way.Where have I made fun of RINOs? I abhor the term.
‘wholly wrong’??Can you cite anything our Catholic bishops have said about Affirmative Action being EVIL to substantiate that AA is wholly wrong and a policy that Catholics may not, in good faith, support?
You were arguing that it is moral a few posts ago.
Are you changing your mind on AA or are you shifting the standards?
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Rich_Olszewski
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Being unable to cite the “specifics” doesn’t imply an inability to see what is needed. I can look at a house and say that it needs painting. I don’t have to say what colors ought to be used, nor do I have to specify what has to be done to prepare the walls for painting.If you do not know this, then how can you claim it is needed?
And, if you think that I’m wrong, then there are the claims by others who found it necessary that can be researched. Besides, I can’t imagine that anyone actually thinks that some form of AA is not needed. Even some posters on your side on this thread haven’t called for total abolition.
I’m not going to argue in favor of it anymore. I’ll just remind those who want to get rid of the policy that it will almost certainly involve a wholesale rejection of the GOP by black Americans, a risk that I’d not take if the shoe were on the other foot.
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Rich_Olszewski
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The Detroit Catholic Pastoral Alliance and the people in the pews who have supported it [AA] say it’s not about being given “preferential treatment” – it’s about being given the opportunities that they otherwise wouldn’t have had because of their circumstances.Another intrinsic evil, racism, is something else we are called upon to end - in all forms!!
Yes, I know that it’s not a magisterial statement, but only that of the bishop, his priests, and the laity of that diocese and doesn’t apply outside the diocese, but there are other dioceses that believe the same.
No, but being unable to say what it should look like tells us that you shouldn’t fiddle with the picture.Being unable to cite the “specifics” doesn’t imply an inability to see what is needed.
AA is a powerful tool, it causes a great deal of harm in the name of nothing.
Why? What exactly is it there to fix and when should it be removed?
How many ‘Catholics’ believe abortion to be right under specific circumstances?The Detroit Catholic Pastoral Alliance and the people in the pews who have supported it [AA] say it’s not about being given “preferential treatment” – it’s about being given the opportunities that they otherwise wouldn’t have had because of their circumstances.
Yes, I know that it’s not a magisterial statement, but only that of the bishop, his priests, and the laity of that diocese and doesn’t apply outside the diocese, but there are other dioceses that believe the same.
I am sure you can now appreciate how pointless using popular opinion is.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Google pros and cons of Affirmative Action. You’ll have both sides to consider, though I’m almost dead certain that you aren’t going to change your mind.No, but being unable to say what it should look like tells us that you shouldn’t fiddle with the picture.
AA is a powerful tool, it causes a great deal of harm in the name of nothing.
Why? What exactly is it there to fix and when should it be removed?
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