Controversy erupts over Campus Republicans bake sale plans

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Scott_Lafrance said:
The demand for post-secondary education is grossly overinflated. The kids with the Occupy Wall Street are a shining example of too much education and not enough market need for it.
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There is more to post secondary education than just a business degree (ironical as I have a Business degree). Last night I was watching The O’Reilly Factor and it had John Ratzenberger (Cliff from TV show Cheers) and he was saying that skilled labor that some abhor as “dirty” are in such high demand its not funny.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Sorry, I work in the law. That field, like medicine, has no “exactlys.” I work in an area that is almost always some shade of gray. If you’re not satisfied with my answer, call me whatever names you want. That was my answer.
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Your refusal to answer is noted.

Is that really an open offer to call you names? Which one would you prefer?😃
 
??

I feel like I am only hearing half of this conversation.

Who is calling you names?
Who is complaining to the moderator?
How is it that you are able to quote lines from posts that apparently no longer exist?
What’s goin on here?
 
vz71 said:
I must have missed it.
Can you please remind me…
Where exactly in AA is the determination that someone has been oppressed or persecuted?
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There is NO “exactly.” Yes, you definitely missed where I said that the application of the policy is done on a case by case basis depending on the institution and the circumstances of the applicant. There is no “one size fits all” determination.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
There is NO “exactly.” Yes, you definitely missed where I said that the application of the policy is done on a case by case basis depending on the institution and the circumstances of the applicant. There is no “one size fits all” determination.
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You are acknowledging a determination.
Where is this done?

Remember, you defined AA for us. And now you are acknowledging that there is a determination made within AA towards those that have been oppressed or persecuted.

Where is it?
If you need, I can quote back your definition.
I can even make this easier…just show us where AA collects enough information (the criteria for AA in your definition) to determine persecution or oppression.
 
vz71 said:
You are acknowledging a determination.
Where is this done?
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In the offices of the Admissions Office of the particular educational institution being asked to apply AA.
Remember, you defined AA for us. And now you are acknowledging that there is a determination made within AA towards those that have been oppressed or persecuted.

Where is it?
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See my response above. The ones who determine IF and where the oppression or persecution was experienced are those evaluating the application. There is no hard and fast rule, and the criteria schools use undoubtedly varies. There may be NO oppression or persecution, as in my example below. I don’t work in the field of college admissions, and so making definitive statements about it is “above my pay grade.”
I can even make this easier…just show us where AA collects enough information (the criteria for AA in your definition) to determine persecution or oppression.
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There is no central collection agency. It’s entirely up to the college or such who must determine if they can and will apply the policy to what degree they choose to and using what criteria.

It’s not a matter of Harvard deciding that they must offer a full scholarship to some poor, relatively uneducated black sharecropper and deny it to a white man with excellent scholastic credentials. It usually comes down to two excellently qualified candidates, one black, one white.
 
You are still ducking.

I will reword to make this easier for you.

You have defined AA for us.
So where in this definition is there a determination for persecution or oppression?

How does one use the criteria of skin color to determine someone has been persecuted and needs an advantage?
How does one use the criteria of gender for this same purpose?

You keep claiming someone else will do it, but you have failed to reveal how this can be done with the information provided.
 
vz71 said:
You keep claiming someone else will do it, but you have failed to reveal how this can be done with the information provided.
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Someone else WILL do it because it’s up to them to decide how to apply the policy. Regardless what you, I, or everyone else on this Forum think, we are NOT the ones to determine the benchmarks. Different schools apply them differently and their definitions will vary. As I understand it, there are no fixed criteria. That’s the best I can do. If you are not satisfied, I’m afraid that I am a deadend, and you might check with the Admissions Office of a local college to see if they even apply the policy, and if so, how.
 
vz71 said:
How can you claim to be in favor of a policy while having no idea how it works?
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Because I don’t need to know the nitty-gritty of everything I favor. I’m a Catholic but don’t need to be familiar with the Code of Canon Law, e.g.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Because I don’t need to know the nitty-gritty of everything I favor. I’m a Catholic but don’t need to be familiar with the Code of Canon Law, e.g.
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The code of canon law is a poor analogy.
One need not know the code to be a good Catholic.

You have been defending this system for many pages now.
And you claim you do not know how it works.
In fact, you have provided a definition, but cannot stand behinds it either since you do not know how exactly it is applied.

That makes little sense.

I accept that there are some things that will seem nonsensical…you are a lawyer.🙂
But this is a piece of information you should have.

This is the equivelent of Pelosi standing up and telling everyone that we have to pass a bill to know what is in it.
 
vz71 said:
In fact, you have provided a definition, but cannot stand behinds it either since you do not know how exactly it is applied.
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Appllication depends on the venue. Here’s how it is to work in just one state, South Carolina. Other states, and various schools have their ways to apply it. I’d be comfortable with any of the methods used to apply it.

"Affirmative action is an effort to develop a systematic approach to eliminate the current and lingering effects of prior discrimination. It is a race and sex conscious effort to achieve equal employment opportunity for all race/sex groups in a workforce. Affirmative Action has been upheld by the United States Supreme Court as a permissible method to reach the goal of fair employment and is not a quota system. Affirmative Action is voluntary and is not required by any law. What is required is that each state agency, college or university submit for approval a written Affirmative Action Plan to the South Carolina Human Affairs Commission (SHAC).

An Affirmative Action Plan sets forth employment goals for minorities and women whose representation in the workforce is less than would be reasonably expected by availability estimates of the qualified labor pool. The plan also names the positive affirmative steps the employer will take to recruit and to employ qualified minorities and women. If followed, the Affirmative Action Plan becomes the guide for a program that should result in fair employment for all race/sex groups, including white males.

The goals component of the plan is not designed to be, nor should be interpreted to be, permitting unlawful quotas with respect to persons of any race or sex. Rather, the goals are used to target and measure the effectiveness of affirmative action efforts to eliminate and prevent discrimination."

If this is too vague for you, I’m sorry. Keep in mind that there are no immutable methods for its application.
 
vz71 said:
How can you make that claim given you are not familiar with them?
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I presume that the people making the plans are not fools, are competent at labor law, and have the interests of the state and its citizens in the forefront.
 
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