Conversation with a Mormon

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Jerusha said:
This does not deny Him as Creator. Who made the “big bang” happen? :confused:

We must look at the ethical meaning of the Bible, rather than its literal truth. This is particularly true when we seek to understand Genesis, which was derived from oral tradition.

This is the reason why prot. fundies have problems refuting the BOM (to get the thread back on track), because the BOM has its origins in Biblical literalism.
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the big bang idea is just a non proven theory.
 
dianaiad said:
I didn’t say it rejected the theory of evolution. I WROTE that it progressed from persecuting Galileo to apologizing to him and accepting evolution.

A progression from a heliocentric view to a modern evolutionary view.
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When did the scientific world move to this view?
 
dianaiad said:
I didn’t say it rejected the theory of evolution. I WROTE that it progressed from persecuting Galileo to apologizing to him and accepting evolution.

A progression from a heliocentric view to a modern evolutionary view.
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I associate evolution with Darwin and biology; Galileo with astronomy and the solar system. What you are writing is not making sense to me. What is your definition of evolution?
 
Stephen168 said:
When did the Catholic Church reject the theory of evolution?
DLClark;5016033:
When they started to deny sola scriptura.
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So DLClark is claiming the Catholic Church does not believe in evolution because they do not believe in sola scriptura, but DLClark does not believe in evolution but does believe in sola scriptura. DLClark is not only factual incorrect but irrational.
 
LDSGuy said:
:rolleyes: When I enter your quote: “the LDS Church does not oppose civil unions or domestic partnerships that involve legal protections for gay and lesbian couples.”
into google, only one website came up. I would think that if there was such protest against this statement, there would be more references to it.
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As I said the LDS church removed the statement from their web site. For verification call them at the phone number I provided (18012401000). As for other sites carrying that info, I have no definite reason why. I can only say for sure that their statement is common knowledge to those here in Utah who are concerned and in no way denied by the LDS church. Let me say the LDS church is desperate to contain and or cover up their mistakes and for good reason, the information age is wiping out the LDS church. ”The LDS church Newspaper Deseret Morning News Published: Thursday, Feb. 14, 2008 reported: “Late President Gordon B. Hinckley once told the Quorum of the Twelve, “Brethren, when my life is finished and the final services are concluding, I am going to rise up as I go by, look each of you in the eye and say, 'How are we doing on retention?”’ The new President of the LDS church has stated that retention of members will be his primary focus. Retention has become a real focus. For you don’t need an abacus to know many members have left the building.
What happened to them?”

In the United States, Mormons are departing from the faith as fast as converts are joining. Converts rarely remain active in the Mormon Church. Graphing activity: When the Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted an American Religious Identification Survey in 2001, it discovered that about the same number of people said they had joined the LDS Church as said they had left it. The CUNY survey reported the church’s net growth was zero percent.
What is the official Mormon reaction to the articles stating that there are significantly less than 12 million members worldwide? This is from a Salt Lake Tribune article Sep. 1st, 2005 quoting Merrill Bateman, a Mormon Seventy
“…He agreed the LDS Church’s worldwide membership, reported at 12 million, includes many who no longer consider themselves Mormon, but he disagreed with researchers who estimated active Mormons equal only 4 million.
Point: do not be afraid to aggressively help your friends see the truth about Mormonism. Many have left and many more will leave, it is only a matter of someone telling the truth to those who are honest enough to hear it.
 
mormonpro said:
As I said the LDS church removed the statement from their web site. For verification call them at the phone number I provided (18012401000). As for other sites carrying that info, I have no definite reason why. I can only say for sure that their statement is common knowledge to those here in Utah who are concerned and in no way denied by the LDS church. Let me say the LDS church is desperate to contain and or cover up their mistakes and for good reason, the information age is wiping out the LDS church. … Converts rarely remain active in the Mormon Church. Graphing activity: When the Graduate Center of the City University of New York conducted an American Religious Identification Survey in 2001, it discovered that about the same number of people said they had joined the LDS Church as said they had left it. The CUNY survey reported the church’s net growth was zero percent.
What is the official Mormon reaction to the articles stating that there are significantly less than 12 million members worldwide? This is from a Salt Lake Tribune article Sep. 1st, 2005 quoting Merrill Bateman, a Mormon Seventy
“…He agreed the LDS Church’s worldwide membership, reported at 12 million, includes many who no longer consider themselves Mormon, but he disagreed with researchers who estimated active Mormons equal only 4 million.
Who are honest enough to hear it?
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Sir,
Are you honest enough to read the New Testament, find the Savior’s parable of the sower, and figure out the statistics implied in that parable?

I’ll help you:

Luke 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

The statistical implication? Not hard: 25% “bring forth fruit”. The LDS convert retention is higher, but all sorts of aspects of “falling away” are to be expected, just as the Savior said would happen.

But for you to say that all converts leave the LDS church is so utterly wrong that I question your ability to think and read like an adult. Who do you think are providing the leadership within this lay church in local congregations all over the world? The converts are, thousands of them.
 
ParkerD said:
The statistical implication? Not hard: 25% “bring forth fruit”. The LDS convert retention is higher, but all sorts of aspects of “falling away” are to be expected, just as the Savior said would happen.
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Maybe you never sowed seeds. You don’t throw 75% of them where they don’t grow and take root. Some fall where they don’t take root.

I’d say the statistical implications are your seeds are sown in the wrong place. Are you throwing 75% of them in the wrong place? Or they are not of the fruit of the vine of which you claim (Jesus Christ) and so cannot grow good fruit?
But for you to say that all converts leave the LDS church is so utterly wrong that I question your ability to think and read like an adult. Who do you think are providing the leadership within this lay church in local congregations all over the world? The converts are, thousands of them.
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Who has the reading comprehension problem? No one said all converts leave your church.
 
DLClark said:
the big bang idea is just a non proven theory.
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…actually, it is theory in the scientific sense of the word; that is, it is an explanation that might get tweaked a bit, but is pretty solidly proven.

The discovery of the background noise that the "Big Bang’ made is pretty substantive proof. The ironic thing about it, though, is that when it was first proposed, Hoyle derided the idea; he’s the one who first called it the ‘big bang’ in an attempt to make fun of it. One of the reasons he didn’t LIKE it was that it smacked too much of God; before it there was nothing, and after it…everything.
 
Stephen168 said:
I associate evolution with Darwin and biology; Galileo with astronomy and the solar system. What you are writing is not making sense to me. What is your definition of evolution?
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I hope that you are not being deliberately obtuse here… We aren’t talking about evolution specifically OR astronomy specifically. We are talking about science; the broader catagory into which these two different areas fit; both causing a great deal of consternation to religious groups, Catholics especially. It is therefore quite proper to include both fields in a sentence that describes the spectrum of scientific acceptance in Catholicism.

Though it is true that Catholicism didn’t have much of a problem with Darwin (and Darwin didn’t have all that much of a problem with religion, atheist claims to the contrary) at first. It DID have a few problems later in the nineteenth century, evidently, but that didn’t last long.Y’all got your acts together rather quickly, which is very much to your credit.

But evolution and astronomy (and geology) aren’t the points here. The POINT is the reconciliation of scientific discovery (which happened in all those fields) and how religion reacted to it.

The POINT is that a church that went after Galileo for daring to tell us that the earth went around the sun is now quite able to accept that as well as far more controversial scientific advancements; like evolutionary theory.

MY point wasn’t to criticize the RC church for being against science. It was to point out the hypocrisy, given your history, of claiming that WE reject science.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Maybe you never sowed seeds. You don’t throw 75% of them where they don’t grow and take root. Some fall where they don’t take root.

I’d say the statistical implications are your seeds are sown in the wrong place. Are you throwing 75% of them in the wrong place? Or they are not of the fruit of the vine of which you claim (Jesus Christ) and so cannot grow good fruit?

Who has the reading comprehension problem? No one said all converts leave your church.
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Rebecca,
I was responding to the statement by “pro” as follows:
“Converts rarely remain active in the Mormon Church.” To me, that was just like saying “all”. To you, it wasn’t. Big deal. Bye.
 
dianaiad said:
I didn’t say it rejected the theory of evolution. I WROTE that it progressed from persecuting Galileo to apologizing to him and accepting evolution.
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When you wrote that the Catholic Church progressed to accepting evolution, you were intentionally leading the reader to believe the Catholic Church rejected the theory of evolution at some point in time. To summarize: You made it up.
 
DLClark said:
When did it ever not have this view. What proof did the scientifict community give for this theory? None. It is just speculation.
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Heliocentric was the radical unproven view. It was considered a speculative theory, largely based on philosophy. At least, in the West.
 
LDSGuy said:
I just want to see the entire statement to see in what context he was talking. Just because it “was taken off from the LDS website” doesn’t mean that we can’t find it anywhere else, especially when he was speaking “officially” for the LDS Church.

From the deseret article:
He said in general, the church “does not oppose civil unions or domestic partnerships,” that involve benefits like health insurance and property rights".-does this mean that the Church does not oppose civil unions, or does not oppose giving health insurance and property rights to people in civil unions? I oppose racism, but racists should still be given health insurance and property rights. I just want to see the context of his statement.
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This is the primary difference between Mormons and Catholics. Catholics oppose all homosexual specific legal rights because giving them legal rights specific to their forbidden lifestyle gives legal legitimacy to their lifestyle. Marriage rights by any other name are still the rights analogs to marriage. Mormons may think they can get away with the deception of giving marriage,legal rights to Homosexuals and just call it a different name but Catholic leaders have seen through this deception and totally disagree.
Remember these forbidden lifestyles have proven the down fall of many civilizations and are warned against by the Bible. Mormons bowing to homosexuals is a sure sign they are not God’s church…
 
First of all, I just want to introduce myself:

As my username shows, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I have several Catholic friends and have admired their deep conviction to studying scripture and to seeking guidance from our Heavenly Father in prayer. I have enjoyed our conversations about faith.

I have learned a greater deal about the Catholic Church over the course of our friendship. One thing I have learned is that we have more in common than we may initially think.

As I join this discussion forum I hope that I can continue to learn more about the Catholic Church and their teachings. I also hope to be able to answer any questions that any of you may have about my faith.

These discussions can be good to clear up any misconceptions, rumors, or misunderstandings that might be out there about each others’ religions.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
Hi Jeff, thank you for coming on to discuss your faith. I recently read some things about your church and I copied them and listed these things about what a Mormon thinks God is. Can you tell me that what I have written here conform to your teachings?

God is:
  1. God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
  2. “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s…” (D&C 130:22).
  3. God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3).
  4. “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
  5. God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105).
  6. God resides near a star called Kolob, /I](Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428).
  7. God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218; vol. 8, p. 115). - Many Mormons and not always ‘officially’ taught and believed. Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.
  8. “Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38)
JJONES
CATHOLIC
CATECHIST
 
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