Conversion to Mormonism?

[FabiusMaximus]

Fabius…

If we assume for a moment that man could reproduce in his innocent state before the fall, then we are to infer that God had intentions to create the human race in a wonderful and happy world without pain and troubles.

And if that is the case, then based on what happened with Adam and Eve we have to conclude that Satan frustrated the plans of God? Don’t we all know that God is more powerful and more intelligent than Satan? Are we to conclude that the entire human race is suffering because of the transgression of our father Adam and mother Eve? It is like saying…oops, God did not plan this properly! Which of course no one believes that is the case. I think it makes more sense to believe that God’s plan was to allow men to go through pain and the difficulties of this world in order for them to grow spiritually and gain wisdom…and he used Satan to accomplish his plan.

In fact, per the scripture it seems clear that Adam and Even understood that the only way to gain wisdom and to know good and evil was to eat of the fruit that God forbade. As I put in my comment…God gave two commandments, to procreate and not to eat of the fruit. You see that after they ate of the fruit they noticed they were naked, which means that they probably felt physical desire for each other after breaking the commandment and that desire was the way to fulfill the commandment of procreation.

Wisdom and knowledge cannot be obtained without pain, sacrifice, struggles and difficulties. This world was created with that purpose. Can we gain wisdom if we don’t go through the experiences of life? We usually have more wisdom after living many years in this life. Don’t you agree?

I’m not so sure that God’s plan was “foiled” according to the traditional Christian mindset. Yes, God intended all of us to live in his presence, but we also know that he created us with free will so that we might be able to choose him. God, knowing that the fall was going to happen, was not foiled or stopped - it just led to him using Christ for our redemption, and providing a way for us to ultimately return to him. I’d also venture to say that it wasn’t part of God’s plan to have Satan rebel against him, but again, he provided the angels with the choice of following him or following Satan, and the battle lines were drawn accordingly.

I do agree that in our modern earthly life, we do gain wisdom by a mixture of sacrifice, life struggle, and divine grace. At the same time, however, I don’t think that if Adam or Eve had requested wisdom from God that he would have denied it to them. The point of Christ visiting humanity was (again, from the traditional Christian point of view) to undo the damage Adam and Eve caused with their sin. Why punish them if what they had done was not wrong?

 

[Stephen168]

Fabius…

**If we assume for a moment that man could reproduce in his innocent state before the fall, then we are to infer that God had intentions to create the human race in a wonderful and happy world without pain and troubles. **

And if that is the case, then based on what happened with Adam and Eve we have to conclude that Satan frustrated the plans of God? Don’t we all know that God is more powerful and more intelligent than Satan?** Are we to conclude that the entire human race is suffering because of the transgression of our father Adam and mother Eve? **It is like saying…oops, God did not plan this properly! Which of course no one believes that is the case. I think it makes more sense to believe that God’s plan was to allow men to go through pain and the difficulties of this world in order for them to grow spiritually and gain wisdom…and he used Satan to accomplish his plan.

In fact, per the scripture it seems clear that Adam and Even understood that the only way to gain wisdom and to know good and evil was to eat of the fruit that God forbade. As I put in my comment…God gave two commandments, to procreate and not to eat of the fruit. You see that after they ate of the fruit they noticed they were naked, which means that they probably felt physical desire for each other after breaking the commandment and that desire was the way to fulfill the commandment of procreation.

Wisdom and knowledge cannot be obtained without pain, sacrifice, struggles and difficulties. This world was created with that purpose. Can we gain wisdom if we don’t go through the experiences of life? We usually have more wisdom after living many years in this life. Don’t you agree?

God created man in paradise. And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

As you said man is no longer there because he disobeyed God. God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’ But they disobeyed and ate the fruit. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths. Now man is shamed before God. But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” Now man must suffer. *To the woman he said,
“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children.And to Adam he said,…cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground

Christians believe God is a loving God. The Old Testament tells Christians God wanted us in paradise with him.

Well…this story can go on forever, but I will try to list some of the many reasons why I become a convert to the Mormon Church when I was 21 years old:

Beautiful Theology

The beauty if thinking shame is lust.

The beauty of pride and disobedience.

The beauty of seeing God as a mean, fickle, trickster.

 

[MommaduckofMany]

Sticking my nose in:

I have LDS family and have had plenty of friends and neighbours that are LDS (grew up military). LDS is very tempting when one is emotional and looking for an idealism in regards to social and family issues. However, I’m also a very logical person as well as practical. Logic is part of how God created us. Logic is not Satan. Emotions ebb and flow. God help us if we follow our every emotion! Logic is the counterbalance. We have minds, we can be educated. I’ve read and learned much over my years in terms of Church History, world history and archaeology, and various theologies. Mormonism is a sieve that can’t hold water if it tried. It may feel good, but there is so much lack in it theologically, let alone historically.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I wanted to ask another question for Evanfaust, Alma, or anyone who is knowledgeable about this subject. Please don’t take this as a “gotcha” question.

If the LDS Church considers having apostles and prophets as being essential for the proper functioning of Christ’s church, then did they exist in the Book of Mormon after the post-resurrection appearance of Jesus Christ? Was another set of apostles appointed and sent in the Americas for the Nephites, or were they technically “subordinate” (for lack of a better term) to the apostles in Palestine? Were their post-resurrection prophets? Did a great apostasy occur in the Americas like in the Old World? If so, what is the LDS response to the lack of evidence? If there didn’t exist a church structure like in the Old World, well then, isn’t that a problem?

Again I’m just curious to understand how Mormons defend their faith (part of the original intention of this thread), I’m not trying to be polemical. Thanks for your time.

 

[evanfaust]

and you still dodge the truly tough problems and facts that disprove your church and your alleged prophets.

And you have shown that you truly do not know your church or its history.

TexanKinight,

I understand that this issue is very relevant for you and many others that left the Mormon Church…but, for me it is not. I see this issue as an idea that did not get traction in the Mormon Church. was never taught as doctrine, and was later dismissed by President Kimball. The theory Adam-God was never an official doctrine in the Mormon Church and that is the end of the conversation for me.

I am not dodging the question…I simply accept the fact that prophets and apostles are humans and they make mistakes too. I commented on you question, but you are trying to make me come to the same conclusion as you. We have been exposed to the same history and we conclude differently.

Let me ask you a question. Is the Pope infallible? Has any Pope, who the Catholic people consider inspirited and guided by the Holly Ghost made any mistake?

By the way Mormons do not claim that Prophets and Apostles are infallible. The prophet Joseph Smith himself admitted that from the beginning.

So, this is a non issue to me…let me tell you something else. I have been a member of the LDS Church for many years and have read hundreds of books and thousands of articles about Mormon doctrine and history and thousands of articles from the critics of the LDS Church since my conversion, which is three decades. I am well familiar with all arguments against the Mormon faith…these arguments are recycled and repacked in different ways, but I am familiar with them…that is because have participated in many other communities and have debated many different kinds of issues and I also have read many articles from the critics online.

My conversion was not a simple fuzzy warm feeling like many in this community try to portray. My conversion was real and very powerful. A real conversion is beyond feelings or emotions…it is based on logic, knowledge, common sense and it extends to a lot more than the usual human senses. What I went through was even more powerful than seeing a celestial being. It was a communication that transcends the human senses and leaves no doubt.

 

[TexanKnight]

TexanKinight,

I understand that this issue is very relevant for you and many others that left the Mormon Church…but, for me it is not. I see this issue as an idea that did not get traction in the Mormon Church. was never taught as doctrine, and was later dismissed by President Kimball. The theory Adam-God was never an official doctrine in the Mormon Church and that is the end of the conversation for me.

See? You have no clue about your history. it WAS taught as doctrine. The only way you can say it was not is to call Brigham a liar. I know what Kimball said. i was a missionary when he was the “prophet”. But he lied. he was like all the other later prophets who try so hard to cover up the past. I have given you the quotes that disprove you. Why do you ignore facts?

I am not dodging the question…I simply accept the fact that prophets and apostles are humans and they make mistakes too. I commented on you question, but you are trying to make me come to the same conclusion as you. We have been exposed to the same history and we conclude differently.

The fact they are humans are not relevant. They allegedly talk DIRECTLY to God. So, comments about the nature of God should not and cannot be wrong. A prophet should NOT mislead.

Let me ask you a question. Is the Pope infallible? Has any Pope, who the Catholic people consider inspirited and guided by the Holly Ghost made any mistake?

Ah…the typical attempt to compare. You fail here, because we do not claim that the Pope is a prophet. We do not claim, as lds prophets do, that they talk directly with God and that God talks directly with them. It is a failing argument to compare them

So, this is a non issue to me…let me tell you something else. I have been a member of the LDS Church for many years and have read hundreds of books and thousands of articles about Mormon doctrine and history and thousands of articles from the critics of the LDS Church since my conversion, which is three decades. I am well familiar with all arguments against the Mormon faith…these arguments are recycled and repacked in different ways, but I am familiar with them…that is because have participated in many other communities and have debated many different kinds of issues and I also have read many articles from the critics online.

I do not believe you. Your comments show a true lack of knowledge of LDS history and facts regarding the LDS Church.

My conversion was not a simple fuzzy warm feeling like many in this community try to portray. My conversion was real and very powerful.

Yeah? I have talked to Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims, Methodists who all say the same thing. Are they right, too?

A real conversion is beyond feelings or emotions…it is based on logic, knowledge, common sense and it extends to a lot more than the usual human senses.

Oh Good! You based your on KNOWLEDGE! Tell me exactly where Zerehamla is. Tell me exactly where Bountiful from the Book of Mormon is. Tell me exactly where the Book of Mormon took place. Tell me why and how js could have 9 versions of such a spectacular event as a visit from God? Knowledge? No. Your decision had nothing to do with facts.

 

[Stephen168]

Let me ask you a question. Is the Pope infallible? Has any Pope, who the Catholic people consider inspirited and guided by the Holly Ghost made any mistake?

Christianity has never had prophets who lead the Church. In an attempt to find the Church of Former-Day-Saints, who was the Christian Prophet leader in 70AD?

 

[taylorf]

TexanKinight,

I understand that this issue is very relevant for you and many others that left the Mormon Church…but, for me it is not. I see this issue as an idea that did not get traction in the Mormon Church. was never taught as doctrine, and was later dismissed by President Kimball. The theory Adam-God was never an official doctrine in the Mormon Church and that is the end of the conversation for me.

So facts are irrelevant to you? It WAS taught as doctrine and modern apostles have recognized it and dismissed it. Ignore it all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that BY taught and misled members of the church at the time.

I am not dodging the question…I simply accept the fact that prophets and apostles are humans and they make mistakes too. I commented on you question, but you are trying to make me come to the same conclusion as you. We have been exposed to the same history and we conclude differently.

You accept that prophets and apostles, being led by God, can contradict and disavow one another. Alma147 believes that two prophets can contradict one another and both be right, do you? Is this reasonable and logical?

Let me ask you a question. Is the Pope infallible? Has any Pope, who the Catholic people consider inspirited and guided by the Holly Ghost made any mistake?

If only you were once raised Catholic to know the difference…errrr…wait…what religion were you born into?

By the way Mormons do not claim that Prophets and Apostles are infallible. The prophet Joseph Smith himself admitted that from the beginning.

Who is saying they are infallible? This response is the same lame apologetics tactic that has been recycled and repacked in different ways. I’m familiar with it and it’s nothing more than dodging.

So, this is a non issue to me…let me tell you something else. I have been a member of the LDS Church for many years and have read hundreds of books and thousands of articles about Mormon doctrine and history and thousands of articles from the critics of the LDS Church since my conversion, which is three decades. I am well familiar with all arguments against the Mormon faith…

Sorry, you lost me at this point. Based on your responses (excluding the obvious copy and paste) regarding both Catholic and Mormon doctrine, it’s obvious you know very little. There are a handful of Catholics here that know more about your religion than you do. I don’t believe you.

My conversion was not a simple fuzzy warm feeling like many in this community try to portray. My conversion was real and very powerful. A real conversion is beyond feelings or emotions…it is based on logic, knowledge, common sense…

You lost me there as well. Mormon “theology” has nothing to do with logic, knowledge, and common sense.

 

[iepuras]

I wanted to ask another question for Evanfaust, Alma, or anyone who is knowledgeable about this subject. Please don’t take this as a “gotcha” question.

If the LDS Church considers having apostles and prophets as being essential for the proper functioning of Christ’s church, then did they exist in the Book of Mormon after the post-resurrection appearance of Jesus Christ? Was another set of apostles appointed and sent in the Americas for the Nephites, or were they technically “subordinate” (for lack of a better term) to the apostles in Palestine? Were their post-resurrection prophets? Did a great apostasy occur in the Americas like in the Old World? If so, what is the LDS response to the lack of evidence? If there didn’t exist a church structure like in the Old World, well then, isn’t that a problem?

Again I’m just curious to understand how Mormons defend their faith (part of the original intention of this thread), I’m not trying to be polemical. Thanks for your time.

After Jesus’ supposed visit to the Nephites in the New World, he ordained 12 “disciples”. He couldn’t call the apostles because the real apostles were in the Old World. If the 12 apostles and the 12 disciples knew about each other, the disciples would be subordinate to the apostles.

There was a great apostasy in the New World which led to the last great battle where the Nephites were wiped out.

I don’t know how Mormons can claim the priesthood authority was removed from the earth when they also believe the apostle John, as well as three of the Nephite disciples, were "translated " and never died. Apparently they are still wandering around doing who knows what.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

After Jesus’ supposed visit to the Nephites in the New World, he ordained 12 “disciples”. He couldn’t call the apostles because the real apostles were in the Old World. If the 12 apostles and the 12 disciples knew about each other, the disciples would be subordinate to the apostles.

There was a great apostasy in the New World which led to the last great battle where the Nephites were wiped out.

I don’t know how Mormons can claim the priesthood authority was removed from the earth when they also believe the apostle John, as well as three of the Nephite disciples, were "translated " and never died. Apparently they are still wandering around doing who knows what.

Given that the Church in the Americas was so far away from the original disciples, how could this fledgling community survive without the leadership of a prophet and twelve apostles? They had no contact with the Old World, but yet didn’t they last another three hundred years as a Christian civilization before they were defeated?

 

[twopekinguys]

TexanKinight,

I understand that this issue is very relevant for you and many others that left the Mormon Church…but, for me it is not. I see this issue as an idea that did not get traction in the Mormon Church. was never taught as doctrine, and was later dismissed by President Kimball. The theory Adam-God was never an official doctrine in the Mormon Church and that is the end of the conversation for me.

I am not dodging the question…I simply accept the fact that prophets and apostles are humans and they make mistakes too. I commented on you question, but you are trying to make me come to the same conclusion as you. We have been exposed to the same history and we conclude differently.

Let me ask you a question. Is the Pope infallible? Has any Pope, who the Catholic people consider inspirited and guided by the Holly Ghost made any mistake?

By the way Mormons do not claim that Prophets and Apostles are infallible. The prophet Joseph Smith himself admitted that from the beginning.

So, this is a non issue to me…let me tell you something else. I have been a member of the LDS Church for many years and have read hundreds of books and thousands of articles about Mormon doctrine and history and thousands of articles from the critics of the LDS Church since my conversion, which is three decades. I am well familiar with all arguments against the Mormon faith…these arguments are recycled and repacked in different ways, but I am familiar with them…that is because have participated in many other communities and have debated many different kinds of issues and I also have read many articles from the critics online.

My conversion was not a simple fuzzy warm feeling like many in this community try to portray. My conversion was real and very powerful. A real conversion is beyond feelings or emotions…it is based on logic, knowledge, common sense and it extends to a lot more than the usual human senses. What I went through was even more powerful than seeing a celestial being. It was a communication that transcends the human senses and leaves no doubt.

You claim to have done all of this “reading”, and done all of this so called research, let me ask you a simple question.

How many failed/false prophecies does it take for someone to be considered a False Prophet? I will help you out here. It only takes one. How many false prophecies did Smith have?

Also, see Deut. 13:1-5. It has smith written all over it considering the mormon view of the trinity.

]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

 

[taylorf]

Given that the Church in the Americas was so far away from the original disciples, how could this fledgling community survive without the leadership of a prophet and twelve apostles? They had no contact with the Old World, but yet didn’t they last another three hundred years as a Christian civilization before they were defeated?

They had their own 12 apostles and didn’t need a connection to the Old World. What’s interesting though is that although they lasted three hundred years longer than the Old World, NOTHING exists across the American continents that suggest a Christian religion ever existed.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Let me ask you a question. Is the Pope infallible? Has any Pope, who the Catholic people consider inspirited and guided by the Holly Ghost made any mistake?

The Pope is infallible on the Faith and morals. It makes perfect sense that the Pope can tell us what is and isn’t part of the Catholic faith, that your prophets can’t do the same for Mormonism simply shows that your faith is indeed on very sandy soil. The same holds true with morals, if a church can’t define right from wrong it is at best useless as a guide to living a moral life and at worst it teaches and leads people to immorality. The practice of polygamy for instance was a case where people were taught and practiced immorality.

 

[PaulDupre1]

Ancient texts have much to say about the appearance of God, but very little to suggest that he was once mortal. The first account to suggest that there is a tie between men and God is the biblical story of the fall, in which the serpent tempts Eve to eat the fruit of the tree by telling her that “God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5). That this part of the serpent’s speech was the truth is clear from Genesis 3:22, where the Lord himself says, “Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.” Two medieval Armenian texts suggest that the serpent said a bit more than what is recorded in the Genesis story. The first of these texts is an account of the fall:

When Adam departed and was walking around in the garden, the serpent spoke to Eve and said, “Why do you taste of all the trees, but from this one tree which is beautiful in appearance you do not taste?” Eve said, “Because God said, ‘When you eat of that tree, you shall die.’” But the serpent said, “God has deceived you, for formerly God was man like you. When he ate of that fruit, he attained this great glory. That is why he told you not to eat, lest eating you would become equal to God.”

Another translator of this text rendered the serpent’s words, “God was a man like you. When he ate of the fruit of this tree he became God of all.” A second Armenian text records:

The serpent said to Eve, “Why do you eat of the fruit from every tree, but you do not eat of this beautiful fruit?” Eve said, “Because the Lord God commanded not to eat of that fruit. He said, ‘When you eat it, you will die.’” The serpent said, “God wants to deceive you, for God was like you, because he had not eaten of that fruit. When he ate it, he attained the glory of divinity. That is why he told you not to eat of that fruit, because you would become equal, sharing the glory and throne of God.”

fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2004-fair-conference/2004-the-king-follett-discourse-in-the-light-of-ancient-and-medieval-jewish-and-christian-beliefs

So Mormons believe that God is a liar and that Satan is the one who tells the truth.

Interesting, but stupid.

 

[evanfaust]

You claim to have done all of this “reading”, and done all of this so called research, let me ask you a simple question.

How many failed/false prophecies does it take for someone to be considered a False Prophet? I will help you out here. It only takes one. How many false prophecies did Smith have?

Also, see Deut. 13:1-5. It has smith written all over it considering the mormon view of the trinity.

]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

There is no false prophets or false prophecies in the Mormon Church. Many critics of the Mormon Church just have shallow knowledge of it…they do not go deeper or try to really understand it. If you use the same standards to judge the Mormon prophets or prophecies you will then discover false prophets and false prophecies in the Bible. Just read the following link and see if that makes sense to you.

fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/the-nature-of-prophets-and-prophecy-2

 

[evanfaust]

So Mormons believe that God is a liar and that Satan is the one who tells the truth.

Interesting, but stupid.

No…far from it. Maybe you should read genesis again. You don’t seem to understand it.

 

[PaulDupre1]

No…far from it. Maybe you should read genesis again. You don’t seem to understand it.

 

[LivingWaters7]

No…far from it. Maybe you should read genesis again. You don’t seem to understand it.

The reality is that the LDS view of the Fall is very odd. It makes God out to be a sort of trickster. He quite clearly gave Adam and Eve a commandment not to eat from the Tree. LDS then go on to claim that Adam and Eve were not able to have children prior to the Fall (a view not shared by orthodox Christianity), therefore they were in a conundrum: God gave the commandment to be fruitful and multiply, yet they couldn’t in their current state, and therefore had to eat from the Tree, which God said not to eat from, to be able to fulfill the command to be fruitful and multiply. Such a view is found nowhere in ancient Judaism nor Christianity.

Now, Catholics readily accept that God, in His omniscience, knew that Adam and Eve would fall. God wasn’t thwarted by the Fall, since He knows everything. Further, Catholics readily accept that through the Fall, God was able to bring good out of evil, even greater blessings than previously available, provided we follow Him. However, that is completely different from claiming that God wanted Adam and Eve to disobey Him, or that He put them in a catch-22 situation.

I find that the LDS view of the Fall makes no sense. God putting them in a situation where they were doomed to fail, and had to disobey Him to obey Him, makes no sense.

Further, you misunderstand Paul’s point. In your citation from Fair, you give extracanonical texts, citing the purported words of Satan, as evidence of an ancient belief that God the Father was once a man. The problem with that, as Paul is stating, is that you must trust that Satan was telling the truth when he said that, for this to be ancient evidence of the LDS belief that the Father was once a man. Interestingly, in one of the verses given, Satan tells them that “God has deceived you” prior to him claiming that God was once a man. Why would you cite such a thing as support for LDS belief? In the end, it makes much more sense to interpret these verses as Satan lying to Adam and Eve to get them to disobey God and eat the fruit, than to believe that he was telling the truth, and that God “deceived” Adam and Eve, and was really once a man.

Perhaps critically thinking, instead of merely copying/pasting from Fairmormon, would be helpful.

 

[evanfaust]

I See? You have no clue about your history. it WAS taught as doctrine. The only way you can say it was not is to call Brigham a liar. I know what Kimball said. i was a missionary when he was the “prophet”. But he lied. he was like all the other later prophets who try so hard to cover up the past. I have given you the quotes that disprove you. Why do you ignore facts?".

It is you who do not have enough knowledge of Mormon history! This theory was not taught as doctrine. Brigham Young never introduced this as a revelation or commandment from the Lord to the quorum of the twelve or body of the church. You probably do not even have enough knowledge of Mormon doctrine. That is why Mormonism did not make sense to you. You did not go far enough.

This is what President Harold B. Lee said regarding doctrines in the church.

If anyone, regardless of his position in the Church, were to advance a doctrine that is not substantiated by the standard Church works, meaning the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you may know that his statement is merely his private opinion. The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth.

On another occasion Brother Cannon pointed out that, like Joseph Smith, Brigham Young was a mortal who was not immune from weaknesses and “he was not infallible.” When Charles W. Penrose was serving as a member of the First Presidency he responded to a letter of inquiry which contained a long list of questions about the Church. Among them was this one: “Do you believe that the President of the Church, when speaking to the Church in his official capacity, is infallible? ” His response was simple and clear. “We do not believe in the infallibility of man. When God reveals anything it is truth, and truth is infallible . No President of the Church has claimed infallibility.”

Read this quote about Brigham Young’s Adam-God theory:

President Woodruff . . . partially outlined what I should say. . . . I am happy to know that he and I are in accord on the subject. . . . [In his April 1852 discourse] President Young no doubt expressed his personal opinion or views up on the subject. What he said was not given as a revelation or commandment from the Lord. The doctrine was never submitted to the councils of the Priesthood nor to the Church for approval or ratification and was never formally or otherwise accepted by the Church. It is therefore in no sense binding upon the Church nor upon the consciences of any of the members thereof.

If you want to know how the theory Adam-God was developed please read this…it was never a revelation and never proposed as revelation from the Lord, just ideas in the mind of Brigham Young.

fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2009_Brigham_Youngs_Teachings_On_Adam.pdf

 

[zaffiroborant]

. No President of the Church has claimed infallibility.”

They can’t even define the truth of the Mormon faith. I really don’t see how a Mormon can have any idea what it is they are supposed to believe, let alone say they “know” your prophets can not speak with any authority about Mormon belief.

Edited to add:
Well I see you left before answering how you can possibly know what to believe. So I see that you can’t really know anything for certain about God at all.