Conversion to Mormonism?

[PaulDupre1]

Thanks for sharing your story, Paul. I cannot tell you how much you and all the other ex-Mormon Catholics have helped me on my journey.

I was relieved when I finally realized Joseph Smith was a false prophet. A very heavy burden was lifted. I was BIC and tried so hard to make sense of it all and please my parents. It was ultimately polygamy and polyandry that filled my shelf and finally caused it to collapse. I didn’t know about the polyandry and when I was finally unafraid to research how polygamy was really practiced and how both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young stole the wives of other men, I knew that they were false prophets. God would never command a prophet to steal another man’s wife. My husband never believed and he was waiting patiently for me.

Unfortunately, I have had all kinds of issues with my very Mormon family, particularly my parents. I didn’t think through what could happen when I told them I was leaving, but I soon realized that I was willing to give up my family completely to protect my children from the teachings of a false prophet and to come to know the true God.

Wow, what a great testimony to the truth. I know what you mean about the burden. When I finally realized that Joseph Smith was a fraud, it was like the weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders. Tell your husband I would very much like to buy him a beer. He sounds like a good man.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[PaulDupre1]

That is part of the reason why I love languages, because you learn so much from knowing multiple languages that most people would never realize. Even a simple example like Matthew 16:18, the “Peter the Rock” verse. If you read it in Italian, it makes more sense, because it says* “Tu sei Pietro*, e su questa pietra edificherò la mia chiesa…”

The word play becomes immediately clear.

Amazing how the pronunciation in German assisted you in learning Mandarin. I would have never expected something like that.

I just now looked that up. Awesome. I went to a Jesuit high school and studied Latin for 2 years in high school and 2 more years in college. Latin helps a lot in understanding where words come from. I am now studying ancient Greek in my spare time (which is small), but I am now an old dog trying to learn new tricks. Well, maybe it will help me stave off Alzheimer’s disease.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[iepuras]

Wow, what a great testimony to the truth. I know what you mean about the burden. When I finally realized that Joseph Smith was a fraud, it was like the weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders. Tell your husband I would very much like to buy him a beer. He sounds like a good man.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

He is a good man! And he very much likes beer! If you are ever in Houston, we can take you out to get some Shiner Bock.

My husband is Byzantine Catholic and grew up behind the Iron Curtain. He has a lot of interesting things to say once you get him talking.

 

[PaulDupre1]

He is a good man! And he very much likes beer! If you are ever in Houston, we can take you out to get some Shiner Bock.

My husband is Byzantine Catholic and grew up behind the Iron Curtain. He has a lot of interesting things to say once you get him talking.

I would love to get him talking over a couple of Shiner Bocks!

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[PaulDupre1]

I thought the posting was familiar…so i went back and read Whyme’s posts.

wow

Yes, I especially recognized the “I know a lot of priests and nuns”.



Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[LivingWaters7]

Off topic, but this is kind of funny: I work in a hospital, and I was at the pharmacy today. As I was waiting to pick up the medications for my patient, I could hear the pharmacists talking, and I don’t know what the actual topic of their conversation was, but they started talking about “polyandry”, and proceeded to Wikipedia it. I was kind of hoping in my head that they’d read something related to Mormonism and polyandry, but they didn’t say anything about it.

Random, but I was very amused to overhear that conversation.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I refuse to engage in a prideful and therefore sinful contest of whose church or former church is better. It’s not polite and it’s not charitable either.

I know many wonderful Catholic priests and nuns and I think it’s a tragedy that your lower clerical orders are prohibited marriage and family. I don’t mean that makes your church bad. I mean that it hurts you, because your best and most spiritual people are banned from reproducing and raising their own children. I’m happy to see the Catholic Church making more use of their deacons, and hope that there will be more part time lay clergy who have jobs and families.

I think it’s prideful to get offended when someone suggests that Catholicism might learn something useful from the Mormons. I’m willing to bet that a number of good Catholics will agree with me there.
PaulDupre1;12020584:

Hmmm, yup. whyme.

You know I might see him as whyme but the following post is really more negative about the LDS church than whyme has ever been, on any board. Whyme has never on any board ever criticized the LDS churches teachings practices or history even in the smallest way. The closest he’s come to criticism of anything LDS is a tepid “LDS member are certainly not perfect”. Everything the LDS church does is fine and done better than any other church in his mind. The passive aggressive, backhanded compliment is just his style though. The pretense that he’s not a true believing Mormon is also classic whyme.

I didn’t want to be a member of a church that would give me the priesthood. Don’t get me wrong, I like the whole unpaid lay priesthood thing, and I hope you Catholics catch onto it. But the push on ordaining all males to the priesthood seems a bit much.

I honestly do not see whyme ever saying anything close to the parts I bolded particularly the last bit.

 

[Porknpie]

Really? I thought that Catholicism professed “One God in THREE PERSONS.”

Which is correct, the Nicene Creed, or Porknpie’s version of Cecilia’s version of the Trinity?

My mistake. Three persons in one being. I was up late in writing…little sleepy in the head.

 

[Porknpie]

Really? I thought that Catholicism professed “One God in THREE PERSONS.”

Which is correct, the Nicene Creed, or Porknpie’s version of Cecilia’s version of the Trinity?

When thinking of St Cecilia, one must ponder how the Holy Spirit protected her from the sword and how God has worked through her to testify to His nature. All in around 250 ad.

 

[RebeccaJ]

From a mormon perspective, better to remove yourself from the covenant than remain in it and not live up to it.

Just out of curiosity, how is not living a covenant, different than not living up to a covenant?

 

[debbie_h]

By the way, although (then apostle) Ezra Taft Benson told us when he came to speak at a mission conference that we were not there to convert the Buddhists, we were there to convert the Christians, all of the 8 people I baptized were Buddhists. I see now that is is weird that he didn’t want us to lead the pagans to Christ, he wanted us to lead the Christians to Joseph Smith.

That is such a strange thing for an apostle/prophet to say. Was any kind of reasoning given for saying that?

 

[taylorf]

I think you’re quite mistaken on the “no training” part; I received considerable training myself, even though I never advanced to a pastoral calling (thank heavens!).

I’m beginning to doubt you were LDS. There is no training program and advancements to pastoral callings. Doesn’t sound like LDS-speak to me.

 

[debbie_h]

Thanks for sharing your story, Paul. I cannot tell you how much you and all the other ex-Mormon Catholics have helped me on my journey.

I was relieved when I finally realized Joseph Smith was a false prophet. A very heavy burden was lifted. I was BIC and tried so hard to make sense of it all and please my parents. It was ultimately polygamy and polyandry that filled my shelf and finally caused it to collapse. I didn’t know about the polyandry and when I was finally unafraid to research how polygamy was really practiced and how both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young stole the wives of other men, I knew that they were false prophets. God would never command a prophet to steal another man’s wife. My husband never believed and he was waiting patiently for me.

Unfortunately, I have had all kinds of issues with my very Mormon family, particularly my parents. I didn’t think through what could happen when I told them I was leaving, but I soon realized that I was willing to give up my family completely to protect my children from the teachings of a false prophet and to come to know the true God.

I too want to thank the ex-LDS Catholics here for helping me on my journey.
I understand how hard it is for those BIC to turn away from the LDS. While there were doctrinal issues & the culture of women that didn’t sit well with me during youth, & my short time in YSA, & relief society, I was really afraid to actually do any digging & research anything for a couple of years.
Iepuras, what/who helped you to jump that first hurdle to start researching?

 

[iepuras]

I too want to thank the ex-LDS Catholics here for helping me on my journey.
I understand how hard it is for those BIC to turn away from the LDS. While there were doctrinal issues & the culture of women that didn’t sit well with me during youth, & my short time in YSA, & relief society, I was really afraid to actually do any digging & research anything for a couple of years.
Iepuras, what/who helped you to jump that first hurdle to start researching?

I, too, was afraid to look at anything “anti-Mormon”. I had read Richard Bushman’s Rough Stone Rolling. It took me a while to process, but there were some things I learned that I had never heard in church or seminary before like the peep stone, the stone in hat translation method, the wife stealing (I don’t like calling it polyandry), and the uncertainty of the priesthood restoration stories. Even though I was TBM, I thought Bushman was white washing JS’s life and carrying his water. The only reason why I even picked up the book is because it was sold at Deseret Book and Bushman is LDS.

Then I decided I wanted to know more about how polygamy was actually practiced, so I went to google. One of the top sites that appeared was MormonThink. I was hesitant to go there, but there weren’t any obvious LDS sites that came up on my search, so I went there. I figured it was an “anti-Mormon” website so I only read the polygamy section. It affirmed what I read in RSR and expanded on it. It was well documented. It was also objective, which is something I was not expecting. My shelf collapsed. In many ways, I credit Zina Jacobs and Helen Mar Kimball for getting me out.

I turned to my husband who was in bed a next to me and told him that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. He said “okay, what do you want to do?” I told him I could not go back to church because it is false. We then talked about what to do. I even considered sending our children to the LDS church with my parents but realized after about 30 seconds I did not want them raised in the LDS church.

We then devoured the rest of the MormonThink website. It is very well done and tries to be relatively objective.

It took me some time to think about why I still believe in God (thank you classical philosophy) and that there is sufficient historical evidence of the Resurrection, so I looked at Christianity. Back to the ancient churches I went. I considered Eastern Orthodoxy as that was my husband’s tradition but decided on the Catholic Church because I found the primacy of Peter convincing. My husband was always fairly “ecumenical” because there was lots of intercommunion with the Catholics in his home country. He sees them as two branches of the same church that are unfortunately separated. He always saw the pope as the leader of the Christian Church so he had no problems doing the profession of faith.

So we went to the closest Catholic Church assuming someone would be there. Lo and behold, we ran into the RCIA director. I got her card and then met with her as a very scared and uncertain person wanting to be a Christian. Fourteen months later I was baptized.

It’s been quite the journey as we are cononically complicated. We heard from the deacon who was helping us sort through everything that the canon lawyers down at the Chancery were fascinated with our story. We gave them something new and interesting to look at. It is not every day that a Mormon and Eastern Orthodox want to become Catholic and have their children baptized! We even had to go all the way to the Holy See for our dispensation to have a convalidation of our marriage. We are so happy to finally be home!

 

[RebeccaJ]

I, too, was afraid to look at anything “anti-Mormon”. I had read Richard Bushman’s Rough Stone Rolling. It took me a while to process, but there were some things I learned that I had never heard in church or seminary before like the peep stone, the stone in hat translation method, the wife stealing (I don’t like calling it polyandry), and the uncertainty of the priesthood restoration stories. Even though I was TBM, I thought Bushman was white washing JS’s life and carrying his water. The only reason why I even picked up the book is because it was sold at Deseret Book and Bushman is LDS.

Then I decided I wanted to know more about how polygamy was actually practiced, so I went to google. One of the top sites that appeared was MormonThink. I was hesitant to go there, but there weren’t any obvious LDS sites that came up on my search, so I went there. I figured it was an “anti-Mormon” website so I only read the polygamy section. It affirmed what I read in RSR and expanded on it. It was well documented. It was also objective, which is something I was not expecting. My shelf collapsed. In many ways, I credit Zina Jacobs and Helen Mar Kimball for getting me out.

I turned to my husband who was in bed a next to me and told him that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. He said “okay, what do you want to do?” I told him I could not go back to church because it is false. We then talked about what to do. I even considered sending our children to the LDS church with my parents but realized after about 30 seconds I did not want them raised in the LDS church.

We then devoured the rest of the MormonThink website. It is very well done and tries to be relatively objective.

It took me some time to think about why I still believe in God (thank you classical philosophy) and that there is sufficient historical evidence of the Resurrection, so I looked at Christianity. Back to the ancient churches I went. I considered Eastern Orthodoxy as that was my husband’s tradition but decided on the Catholic Church because I found the primacy of Peter convincing. My husband was always fairly “ecumenical” because there was lots of intercommunion with the Catholics in his home country. He sees them as two branches of the same church that are unfortunately separated. He always saw the pope as the leader of the Christian Church so he had no problems doing the profession of faith.

So we went to the closest Catholic Church assuming someone would be there. Lo and behold, we ran into the RCIA director. I got her card and then met with her as a very scared and uncertain person wanting to be a Christian. Fourteen months later I was baptized.

It’s been quite the journey as we are cononically complicated. We heard from the deacon who was helping us sort through everything that the canon lawyers down at the Chancery were fascinated with our story. We gave them something new and interesting to look at. It is not every day that a Mormon and Eastern Orthodox want to become Catholic and have their children baptized! We even had to go all the way to the Holy See for our dispensation to have a convalidation of our marriage. We are so happy to finally be home!

Awesome journey. Welcome home!

 

[PaulDupre1]

That is such a strange thing for an apostle/prophet to say. Was any kind of reasoning given for saying that?

Elder Benson (who was at that time the senior apostle in the quorum of the 12) seemed a bit unhinged during that talk. He said all kinds of strange and offensive things, which I have quoted in detail in other posts.

For instance,

Benson spoke of how there was no blood of Abraham in Asia (contrary to what the bible teaches) and declared that LDS missionaries should not return to Taiwan to marry local Chinese LDS girls. He said “Go back to America and marry a nice white girl so that your parents will have grandchildren they can be proud of”.

There were several Chinese missionaries in attendance; I wonder how they felt when he said that?

After that conference talk, many elders expressed the sentiment that “if Benson becomes the prophet I will leave the church”.

Well, Benson did become the prophet when Spencer W. Kimball died. Several of those missionaries eventually did leave the LDS church ( a few subsequently became Catholic) but I’m sure that most did not.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Sabacthani]

Funny; I have one guy accusing me of being a different (presumably LDS commentator), and then one claiming that I was never LDS.

I’m beginning to doubt you were LDS. There is no training program and advancements to pastoral callings. Doesn’t sound like LDS-speak to me.

Why would I use LDS-speak when I’m talking to non-mormons? I don’t talk to hear the sound of my voice, but to be understood.

The whole priesthood is one training program after another, from the age of 12 when they try to rotate things so that most of the enthusiastic boys get a shot at being deacon’s quorum presidents, and every younger quorum has an adult “adviser” to the president who coaches on leadership issues. There is leadership training in the Boy Scouts as well, which is one reason the LDS church is very gung ho involved there; they like the leadership training.

Mormons are a very consensus-driven society, like Polynesians. I was born into it, but I never did get it. Have an easier time in leadership roles outside the church.

Just out of curiosity, how is not living a covenant, different than not living up to a covenant?

It’s not, but that’s not what I said. I said removing myself from the covenant. Ironically once I got out of the church I tend to revert to most church standards. Even stopped cussing. Weird, isn’t it?

 

[Sabacthani]

My mistake. Three persons in one being. I was up late in writing…little sleepy in the head.

Isn’t a person just a type of a being?

 

[TexanKnight]

Funny; I have one guy accusing me of being a different (presumably LDS commentator), and then one claiming that I was never LDS.

I did. And I still believe it. Whyme was an odd fellow. he claimed to be ex-LDS, then Catholic but with LDS family members, but the more he wrote, the more it was clear he was LDS. Then, I found him on a Mormon Board and he claimed to be LDS and was VERY LDS. He was banned from here. You sound a LOT like him, almost exactly like him. You have said enough things to make you sound like you are NOT him, but I suspect he would do that so people would not think it was him. He also “shrugged” a lot

Why would I use LDS-speak when I’m talking to non-mormons? I don’t talk to hear the sound of my voice, but to be understood.

Because, assuming you actually read the posts, you would see that most of us on these LDS threads are former LDS. So your point makes no sense at all

 

[Sabacthani]

The pretense that he’s not a true believing Mormon is also classic whyme.

I consider myself as believing the LDS doctrine but many mormons call me an apostate. And I’m no longer a member of the church. And I really don’t like online Mormon communities. Brr. I’ve said what I am up front and there’s no pretense about it. I meant what I said to iepuras. I disagree with some of her characterizations of the church, but she’s dealt with me respectfully and actually replied to what I said rather than making ugly inferences about me. So she’s earned my respect.

You did earn a modicum of respect for recognizing that I’m not the sort of person that would say “LDS member are certainly not perfect”. That sort of vapid response is what drives me nuts about discussing matters with LDS folks. Even the Doctrine and Covenants speaks more strongly than that: “I have seen abominations in the church that professes my name.” D&C 50. I think JS was a prophet but I also suspect he was manic-depressive. I think Brigham Young was inspired, and a brilliant leader, but with regard to blacks brother Brigham was a bigot, like Peter who wouldn’t eat with Gentiles even after God gave him the revelation. And Moses was a prophet and a 1st degree murderer.

Mormons don’t talk straight enough for me. They get uncomfortable when I point out that their Word of Wisdom, section 89, explicitly says that beer is good to drink, and only bans wine and liquor.