Convert Case Sparks Surge of Interest in Christianity Among Afghans

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

Alright, so now it’s even more clear to you that declaring the state religion to be any particular one doesn’t mean that state actually follows the religion. How is the above any less applicable in showing that Saudi is not a muslim state?

This makes absolutely no sense. There is nothing in the Christian religion which forbids non-Christians the freedom of worship. Christians believe in free will & believe God will be the ultimate judge of a person’s soul.

 

[pro_universal]

cestusdei:

Name a country whose population is basically Christian where Muslims are forbidden to worship publically, build mosques, pray outloud, evangelize, convert others to their faith, criticize the predominate Christian faith, have Islamic religious books including the quran, and punishes those who break these rules with torture and sometimes death. Come on. The US? Canada? Luxemburg? Italy? No, none of them. But you see all or some of these things in virtually all Islamic nations esp. Saudi Arabia. We are not all the same.

Serbia.

 

[pro_universal]

Semper Fi:

This makes absolutely no sense. There is nothing in the Christian religion which forbids non-Christians the freedom of worship. Christians believe in free will & believe God will be the ultimate judge of a person’s soul.

Yes, it does make sense. Emad has been posting about how freedom of religion is allowed in Islam also…but the Saudi Government doesn’t follow Islam, so it doesn’t respect that rule.

The comparison is, even though some governments claim to be Christian, they do not respect all the Christian rules either.

You keep making the claim that because Saudi Arabia says it’s islamic, therefore, anything it does is in line with Islam. The example of Christianity is to show you how wrong this kind of thinking is. Claims do not equal truth, period.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

Yes, it does make sense. Emad has been posting about how freedom of religion is allowed in Islam also…but the Saudi Government doesn’t follow Islam, so it doesn’t respect that rule.

The comparison is, even though some governments claim to be Christian, they do not respect all the Christian rules either.

You keep making the claim that because Saudi Arabia says it’s islamic, therefore, anything it does is in line with Islam. The example of Christianity is to show you how wrong this kind of thinking is. Claims do not equal truth, period.

I used Saudi Arabia as ONE example that you continue to nitpick. And the freedom of religion allowed for by Christianity and the so-called freedom of religion allowed for by Islam are two vastly different things. In Sharia, freedom of religion is only allowed for ‘people of the book’ (and depending on one person’s interpretation of who is a ‘person of the book’) and even then, Christian testimony in Sharia is worth less than a Muslim’s. In Islamic countries where ‘freedom of religion’ is allowed… it is only allowed to the dhimmi (the so-called people of the book). Apples and oranges.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

Serbia.

There are mosques in Serbia.

 

[pro_universal]

Semper Fi:

I used Saudi Arabia as ONE example that you continue to nitpick. And the freedom of religion allowed for by Christianity and the so-called freedom of religion allowed for by Islam are two vastly different things. In Sharia, freedom of religion is only allowed for ‘people of the book’ (and depending on one person’s interpretation of who is a ‘person of the book’) and even then, Christian testimony in Sharia is worth less than a Muslim’s. In Islamic countries where ‘freedom of religion’ is allowed… it is only allowed to the dhimmi (the so-called people of the book). Apples and oranges.

1. Freedom of religion varies between both Christian and Muslim states. There are some Christian states where freedom of religion is extremely limited; others where it is not.
2. Traditional Islamic governments have allowed and do allow for freedom of religion for hindus and zoroastrians, among others. Syria, for example, is ruled entirely by Alawhites. So I’m not sure what your “peoples of the book” argument means.

And if you want to turn to Christian canon law of the past, and not just Christian states today (as you seem to be doing with Islam), the laws on religious freedom are decidedly worse from the periods of Christian religious government in Europe than in muslim governments-those today or those past.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

1. Freedom of religion varies between both Christian and Muslim states. There are some Christian states where freedom of religion is extremely limited; others where it is not.

‘Christian’ states where freedom of religion is extremely limited? Which ‘Christian’ state (i.e. one that has it in its constitution) would forbid Musilms from building Mosques?

pro_universal:

1. Traditional Islamic governments have allowed and do allow for freedom of religion for hindus and zoroastrians, among others. Syria, for example, is ruled entirely by Alawhites. So I’m not sure what your “peoples of the book” argument means.

Again, as I said earlier, it is up to each and every Muslim who he considers ‘dhimmi’ (a ‘person of the book’). You just proved my point. Even in Islamic states where supposed freedom of religion is allowed for Christians, it is not allowed for fellow Muslims. So a person is basically ‘forced’ to be Muslim (I know they will alledge that there is ‘no compulsion in religion’, but come on that’s a farce) from when they’re kids and then when they have more knowledge and wish to convert, they are usually not allowed under any form of Sharia law.

pro_universal:

And if you want to turn to Christian canon law of the past, and not just Christian states today (as you seem to be doing with Islam), the laws on religious freedom are decidedly worse from the periods of Christian religious government in Europe than in muslim governments-those today or those past.

Care to stay in the 21st century?

 

[pro_universal]

‘Christian’ states where freedom of religion is extremely limited? Which ‘Christian’ state (i.e. one that has it in its constitution) would forbid Musilms from building Mosques?

Serbia.
Semper Fi:

Again, as I said earlier, it is up to each and every Muslim who he considers ‘dhimmi’ (a ‘person of the book’). You just proved my point. Even in Islamic states where supposed freedom of religion is allowed for Christians, it is not allowed for fellow Muslims. So a person is basically ‘forced’ to be Muslim (I know they will alledge that there is ‘no compulsion in religion’, but come on that’s a farce) from when they’re kids and then when they have more knowledge and wish to convert, they are usually not allowed under any form of Sharia law.

Uh, no, this is not proving your point. The Point is that traditional Islamic law provides for freedom of religion. When a state doesn’t allow that, it’s because it does not follow the Islamic law. Just like when a state expels all its Jews, it’s not following the Christian law (ie, Spain.).
Semper Fi:

Care to stay in the 21st century?

Well, you wanted to talk about religious law. There is a large body of Christian religious law, and not all of it is pretty. The time limitation doesn’t make any sense, unless you believe that all the laws of Christians past were wrong.

 

[inJESUS]

scripturecatholic.com

,
newadvent.org/fathers2/,
newadvent.org/cathen/,
ccel.org/fathers/ (generally good site, although you have to keep in mind the Protestant slant),
ewtn.com,
catholicity.com/maryfoundation,
amm.org/chss.htm,
releventradio.com,
avemariaradio.net,
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/baltimore/bindex.htm.

recommend the books “Catholicism for Dummies”, “Radio Replies”, “Rome Sweet Home” (Scott Hahn), “The Lamb’s Supper” (Scott Hahn) also recommend a 2nd edit. of the Catechism of the Catholic Church thx…he was already given some but i’ll add these…

God bless & good luck. A Muslim friend of mine just recently (2 days ago) converted to Christianity and is going into RCIA this Fall to become a catechumen.

halleluija

 

[Ella]

pro_universal:

Yes, it does make sense. Emad has been posting about how freedom of religion is allowed in Islam also…but the Saudi Government doesn’t follow Islam, so it doesn’t respect that rule.

The comparison is, even though some governments claim to be Christian, they do not respect all the Christian rules either.

You keep making the claim that because Saudi Arabia says it’s islamic, therefore, anything it does is in line with Islam. The example of Christianity is to show you how wrong this kind of thinking is. Claims do not equal truth, period.

Pro, what about my example of the ban against women drivers in S.A.? This is a ‘rule’ enforced by the religious leaders of S.A. and based on Sharia law not civil law. There is no law on the books prohibiting women from driving. Are those who enforce this ban also not practicing ‘Real Islam’?