Convert Case Sparks Surge of Interest in Christianity Among Afghans

[Ella]

Emad:

There aren’t so many conflicting interpretations. The same can also be said about the Bible.

Yep, the same can be said of the BIble. So what? The fact remains that conflicting interpretations don’t make defining the ‘real Islam’ any easier, esp. in regards to the laws about people who convert from Islam to another religion.

Examples of conflicting interpretations:

Afghanistan: apostates from Islam should be executed.
Emam: apostates from Islam should not be executed.

Saudi Arabia: Catholic Mass is not allowed.
Emam: Catholic Mass should be allowed.

Al Queda: It was moral to fly planes into the World Trade Center, killing thousands of civilians.
Emam: The 911 attack was not moral.

 

[TobyLue]

The problem is that Muslims apparently don’t know that Islam is. We get the rhetoric that, they may “claim” to be Muslims but they are not. Then who is to tell? Are not the most holy cities in Islam in Saudi Arabia? Do they feel that they have the right interpretation of Islam? Who is to say that the Muslims in America, France, Argentina, Italy, etc have the correct interpretation? If those Muslins that are killing in the name of Allah and of Mohammed are defaming Islam, why are there no riots all over the world calling for the death those of that claim they are Muslims but misinterpreting Islamic teachings? That is worse than somebody making some cartoons, or to some fictitious story? It seems like whenever this is brought up the defense immediately is to point to sexual molestation by priest, the Crusades, and that CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC etc. are all biased in their views and are giving out the wrong information. Yeah, then Columbus never sailed to America in 1492, those history books were biased, Alice in Wonderland is real and the world is flat.

 

[Emad]

Ella:

Yep, the same can be said of the BIble. So what? The fact remains that conflicting interpretations don’t make defining the ‘real Islam’ any easier, esp. in regards to the laws about people who convert from Islam to another religion.

Examples of conflicting interpretations:

Afghanistan: apostates from Islam should be executed.
Emam: apostates from Islam should not be executed.

Saudi Arabia: Catholic Mass is not allowed.
Emam: Catholic Mass should be allowed.

Al Queda: It was moral to fly planes into the World Trade Center, killing thousands of civilians.
Emam: The 911 attack was not moral.

Lol, you act as if Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan are one body. How can you make such a remark? Saudi and Afghanistan have different views inside the countries themselves? Ever thought of that? And just to show that you don’t read my posts, you can’t even spell my name right after like the 10th time of talking to me.

 

[Emad]

TobyLue:

The problem is that Muslims apparently don’t know that Islam is.

:clapping: And you do right? Please come teach us our religion, please.

As for the bias thing, let me ask you a question, would you ever believe al-Jazeera news (I don’t) but would you?

 

[TobyLue]

And you do right? Please come teach us our religion, please.

Where did I claim I know the teachings of Islam? Look at post nbr 81, which is it? Your “claims” are different then what some Muslim Clerics say. Who is to say what you tell us is correct? Who is to say what the Muslims Clerics is correct?

Abdul Rahman must be killed. Islam demands it," said senior Cleric Faiez Mohammed, from the nearby northern city of Kunduz. “The Christian foreigners occupying Afghanistan are attacking our religion.”

Why dont you confront these clerics and tell them they are wrong? From this But then again per your views these are biased reports and are false.

 

[pro_universal]

Semper Fi:

Sorry. That State Department report you cited says that Argentina does allow freedom of religion, albeit a lot more than other Muslim countries do. One more thing, Argentine law just states in their constitution that the official religion of Argentina is Catholicism… it is not split up into provinces which are ruled by bishops or have Catholic law imposed on non-Catholic Christians or members of other religions.

Alright, so now it’s even more clear to you that declaring the state religion to be any particular one doesn’t mean that state actually follows the religion. How is the above any less applicable in showing that Saudi is not a muslim state?

 

[inJESUS]

there is a muslim who is leaving Islam and said : give me Christian sites about Jesus, am eager to learn".

What sites does anyone advise? thx

 

[Emad]

TobyLue:

Where did I claim I know the teachings of Islam? Look at post nbr 81, which is it? Your “claims” are different then what some Muslim Clerics say. Who is to say what you tell us is correct? Who is to say what the Muslims Clerics is correct?
Why dont you confront these clerics and tell them they are wrong? From this But then again per your views these are biased reports and are false.

My view is backed by the majority of the scholars of the world as well as the Quran and Sunnah. Who is to say who is correct? Look what both sides say, look at their evidence and you choose for yourself. Why don’t I confront these clerics? It’s not my job, I am not a scholar. I will leave it to the scholars to do that.

Also I never said all reports are false. I said all media is biased. There is no media organization on the face of the earth that has no bias whatsoever.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

inJESUS:

there is a muslim who is leaving Islam and said : give me Christian sites about Jesus, am eager to learn".

What sites does anyone advise? thx

scripturecatholic.com,
newadvent.org/fathers2/,
newadvent.org/cathen/,
ccel.org/fathers/ (generally good site, although you have to keep in mind the Protestant slant),
ewtn.com,
catholicity.com/maryfoundation,
amm.org/chss.htm,
releventradio.com,
avemariaradio.net,
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/baltimore/bindex.htm.

recommend the books “Catholicism for Dummies”, “Radio Replies”, “Rome Sweet Home” (Scott Hahn), “The Lamb’s Supper” (Scott Hahn) also recommend a 2nd edit. of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

God bless & good luck. A Muslim friend of mine just recently (2 days ago) converted to Christianity and is going into RCIA this Fall to become a catechumen.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

Alright, so now it’s even more clear to you that declaring the state religion to be any particular one doesn’t mean that state actually follows the religion. How is the above any less applicable in showing that Saudi is not a muslim state?

Apples and oranges.

 

[pro_universal]

Semper Fi:

Apples and oranges.

I don’t see how. You keep assuming that because Saudi Arabia says “This is an Islamic state!”, therefore, it is an Islamic state. Claims do not equal fact.

 

[Ella]

pro_universal:

I don’t see how. You keep assuming that because Saudi Arabia says “This is an Islamic state!”, therefore, it is an Islamic state. Claims do not equal fact.

What facts are missing that would convince you that S.A. is an Islamic state?

S.A. might be the closest thing we’ve ever had to a true ‘Islamic state’ even if it doesn’t fit some minutiae of criteria.

I’m starting to think that ‘Islamic state’ is something that can not exist - that it is a sort of Platonic perfect thing and earthly versions are always going to have flaws.
This slippery definition of ‘Islamic state’ allows for critisicm of the current conditions of civil rights in countries like S.A. to be detached from association with Islam.

I do believe that Saudi Arabian violations of its citizens’ civil rights has Islamic roots.
Consider the enforcement of the ban against women driving cars in S.A… There is no official law against this. The justification and enforcement of this ban is rooted in Sharia law, not civil law. Nor can S.A. women vote.

Saying that this is not ‘real Islam’ is easy to do, but hard to fathom considering that ‘real Islam’ never seems to be defined while ‘real civil rights violations’ are occuring now. Reality IS what it is after all, and these things are real and they are wrong.

 

[Ella]

Emad:

Lol, you act as if Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan are one body.

How do you figure that? I don’t act as if S.A. and Afghanistan are one body. I used both countries as examples of how some peoples’ definitions of ‘real Islam’ differ from yours.

Emad:

And just to show that you don’t read my posts, you can’t even spell my name right after like the 10th time of talking to me.

I apologize for that, Emad. I didn’t mean to misspell your name.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

I don’t see how. You keep assuming that because Saudi Arabia says “This is an Islamic state!”, therefore, it is an Islamic state. Claims do not equal fact.

So… what essentially is it that does not make them a Catholic country? The fact that they don’t torture people as a policy of the state or force them to convert? Or the fact that they allow other religions to be practiced within their borders? What one thing doesn’t make Argentina a “Catholic country” in your eyes? Catholicism is subsidized by the state because during colonial times Church possessions were stolen from the Church. I am beginning to think you did not even read the State Department article you quoted. Then you go off and compare Argentina to the crusades or whatever, just because they declare themselves to be Catholic. Something which makes absolutely no sense at all. I’m done debating with you, because all you ever use is red herrings and ad hominems and never come up with anything of substance in your posts other than bashing Catholicism while claiming to be Catholic.

God bless.

 

[pro_universal]

Semper Fi:

So… what essentially is it that does not make them a Catholic country? The fact that they don’t torture people as a policy of the state or force them to convert? Or the fact that they allow other religions to be practiced within their borders?

The fact that bribery and corruption is a mainstay of government, that people are tortured for opposing the Government, that people are executed for arbitrary reasons, etc…wholesale robbery of one’s population would tend to prove (at least in my mind) that the “State Religion” isn’t really respected.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

The fact that bribery and corruption is a mainstay of government, that people are tortured for opposing the Government, that people are executed for arbitrary reasons, etc…wholesale robbery of one’s population would tend to prove (at least in my mind) that the “State Religion” isn’t really respected.

The same thing happens in practically every country on the face of the planet?

 

[pro_universal]

Semper Fi:

The same thing happens in practically every country on the face of the planet?

Exactly. And it happens whether the states are religious, be they christian muslim jewish or buddhist, or whether they are atheist states.

The logical conclusion is right there for you: The fact that people do bad things doesn’t mean the religion they claim to follow is itself bad.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

Exactly. And it happens whether the states are religious, be they christian muslim jewish or buddhist, or whether they are atheist states.

The logical conclusion is right there for you: The fact that people do bad things doesn’t mean the religion they claim to follow is itself bad.

But then what point was it that Muhammad instituted Sharia for? if it cannot even be implemented. It doesn’t make any sense. Obviously, Saudi Arabia’s religious police can justify their decisions from the Qur’an & Hadiths, or their government wouldn’t be there. Or Muslims wouldn’t be demanding Sharia wherever they go.

 

[cestusdei]

Name a country whose population is basically Christian where Muslims are forbidden to worship publically, build mosques, pray outloud, evangelize, convert others to their faith, criticize the predominate Christian faith, have Islamic religious books including the quran, and punishes those who break these rules with torture and sometimes death. Come on. The US? Canada? Luxemburg? Italy? No, none of them. But you see all or some of these things in virtually all Islamic nations esp. Saudi Arabia. We are not all the same.

 

[pro_universal]

Semper Fi:

But then what point was it that Muhammad instituted Sharia for? if it cannot even be implemented. It doesn’t make any sense. Obviously, Saudi Arabia’s religious police can justify their decisions from the Qur’an & Hadiths, or their government wouldn’t be there. Or Muslims wouldn’t be demanding Sharia wherever they go.

Wait, you’re making a huge leap here. Emad has been explaining to you how religious doctrine in Islam does not support the actions of the Saudi government. So why is it “obvious” that Saudi Arabia can justify their decisions based on the Quran?

The Serbs thought their acts were justified by God too. That doesn’t mean they actually are.

The Shariah of the traditional Islamic state is not what is followed today, that’s what you’re missing. Just like the fulness of Catholic teaching isn’t followed by every Catholic, nor is it respected by all the governments that claim to adopt it as the official religion of state.