Convert Case Sparks Surge of Interest in Christianity Among Afghans

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Emad:
Yes I know, Catholics tell me different things too.
A Catholic who knowingly does not speak along WITH the Church’s authoratative teaching, is speaking AGAINST their authoritative teaching, and could probably be argued that they are not very Catholic in the first place.
 
Emad
As I said Muslim terrorists claim they are following the Qur’an and the teachings of Mohammad that’s why they shout “Allah is great” as they blow themselves up. But there are no priests that do likewise.
**Even if he did, I have a brain and I can tell that it isn’t Christian teachings, can you do the same? **
What are you implying, that we are stupid?
Islam doesn’t have to pay for anything because Islam didn’t do anything, it was individuals.
Yes, individuals did it, but they claim they are doing it for the glory of Allah and following Islamic teachings.
**Which Muslim leaders do you hear calling for that? Did you attend any mosque and hear that? Did you call any mosque? Or are these the imams on fox news, cnn, and jihadwatch? **
Oh that’s right. Every newspaper and every news network is against Islam and they pervert the news so as to make Islam look bad. Tsk, tsk. Oh yeah, I guess I should not pay attention to any of them only to Al-Jazeera. Right? But then again, I may not get the right info quoted by Al-Jazeera because since the worlds news network are anti Islam they will distort whatever Al-Jazeera says.
I do not understand why the Saudi government gets to represent all of Islam. Is there some reason you have for demanding that, before Islam can be anything, the Saudi government must make some law?
From “The Saudi Arabia Information Resource” here
Basic Law: General Principles
Article 1:
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a sovereign Arab Islamic State.
Religion: Islam
Constitution: The Holy Qur’an and the Prophet’s Sunnah (traditions)
And as such is governed by Islamic Laws or is it not? Ooops, but then again, I cant trust that information since it is probably distorted.
 
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TobyLue:
And as such is governed by Islamic Laws or is it not? Ooops, but then again, I cant trust that information since it is probably distorted.
Toby, you only need answer two questions to satisfy your concerns:

Is it possible for a government to claim that it follows a certain religion, without actually following that religion?

Argentina is officially Catholic, for example. Does that mean that corruption and torture are Catholic teaching?

Now you see the problem with your post.
 
Tobylue in blue (that ryhmes lol) 😃
Emad in Black

Yes, individuals did it, but they claim they are doing it for the glory of Allah and following Islamic teachings.

Key word is claim. Claiming is one thing, it being true is another.

Oh that’s right. Every newspaper and every news network is against Islam and they pervert the news so as to make Islam look bad.

Most of them yes, not only Muslims, but other minorities as well, for example during hurricane Katrina, blacks were stealing food, while whites were seeking food. If you can’t see bias in the media you are blind.

Oh yeah, I guess I should not pay attention to any of them only to Al-Jazeera. Right?

Wrong, all media is bias in one way or another, even al Jazeera which I don’t watch by the way, nor do I trust.

And as such is governed by Islamic Laws or is it not? Ooops, but then again, I cant trust that information since it is probably distorted.

I think my friend pro_universal answered this one, thanks pro!

😃
 
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Emad:
Show me one verse where Islam teaches terrorism.
This is not an issue of where Islam teaches terrorism, its an issue of why do thousands of muslims mistakenly THINK Islam teaches terrorism? There is a problem SOMEWHERE, whether it is in the mosques, or it is in the Koran, or maybe just on the streets… regardless, there is something connecting many muslims with the idealogy that they have to kill whoever acts against their beliefs.
The bigger issue is… why is Islam being hijacked by what has claimed to be the minority, and yet the majority are relatively silent in comparison?
 
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pro_universal:
Toby, you only need answer two questions to satisfy your concerns:

Is it possible for a government to claim that it follows a certain religion, without actually following that religion?

Argentina is officially Catholic, for example. Does that mean that corruption and torture are Catholic teaching?

Now you see the problem with your post.
Could you cite your source that the official religion of Argentina is Catholic? Is it in their constitution? Is it the only religion allowed? If so, is there a penalty for practicing another religion?

Thanks
 
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theguidedheart:
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Emad:
Show me one verse where Islam teaches terrorism.
This is not an issue of where Islam teaches terrorism, its an issue of why do thousands of muslims mistakenly THINK Islam teaches terrorism? There is a problem SOMEWHERE, whether it is in the mosques, or it is in the Koran, or maybe just on the streets… regardless, there is something connecting many muslims with the idealogy that they have to kill whoever acts against their beliefs.
The bigger issue is… why is Islam being hijacked by what has claimed to be the minority, and yet the majority are relatively silent in comparison?
This isn’t a question I can answer, you have to ask those Muslims who think that way, I don’t know any who do. Also to say the majority are silent isn’t fair, as I visited hundreds of mosques in different states and countries, even in Saudi Arabia and if I stayed in that mosque for a little while I heard the imam their denounce such acts and teach the people that such is against Islam.
 
Emad,
Here is the fallacy of your comparison. Argentina is not a Catholic government nor is it base its laws on the Catholic Catechism. To sustain is not the same as to base it laws according to the Catholic Church even though the Government grants them some privileges. But if you will further down on that site you will notice that there are other religions allowed; Protestants, Jews, Muslims. Whereas Saudi Arabia definitely states it is an Islamic state and its laws are based in the Qur’an. Show me what percentage of Saudi Arabians are Protestants, Catholic, or Jew. Is freedom of religion allowed? From that same site
“The Secretariat of Worship in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, International Trade, and Worship is responsible for conducting the Government’s relations with the Catholic Church, non-Catholic Christian churches, and other religious organizations in the country.
Do the Saudi’s grant the same privileges to other religious organizations?
And from this site
“Freedom of religion does not exist” in Saudi Arabia, the State Department said in its annual report on international religious freedom. “Freedom of religion is not recognized or protected under the country’s laws and basic religious freedoms are denied to all but those who adhere to the state-sanctioned version of Sunni Islam,” the report said, adding that “non-Muslim worshippers risk arrest, imprisonment, lashing, deportation and sometimes torture.”
Oh, but of course these are false reports, because anything that speaks against Islam is definitely biased and full of lies.
 
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TobyLue:
Emad,
Here is the fallacy of your comparison. Argentina is not a Catholic government nor is it base its laws on the Catholic Catechism. To sustain is not the same as to base it laws according to the Catholic Church even though the Government grants them some privileges. But if you will further down on that site you will notice that there are other religions allowed; Protestants, Jews, Muslims. Whereas Saudi Arabia definitely states it is an Islamic state and its laws are based in the Qur’an. Show me what percentage of Saudi Arabians are Protestants, Catholic, or Jew. Is freedom of religion allowed? From that same site Do the Saudi’s grant the same privileges to other religious organizations?
And from this site Oh, but of course these are false reports, because anything that speaks against Islam is definitely biased and full of lies.
I think you have a problem differentiating between a claim and action. Saudi kings live in big palaces while people starve. If a Saudi it killed by accident his blood money is extremely high, whereas if a non-Saudi is killed by accident, his blood money is extremely low and we are talking about non-Saudi Muslims. Is this also part of Islam? Saudi says it is an Islamic state, but anyone with half a brain knows there not. Go back and study the history of Saudi Arabia. Mohammad ibn Abdul Wahab agreed with Muhammad ibn Saud that he would take over the religous aspects of Saudi arabia, while Mohammad ibn Saud takes over and makes the political aspects of the state. Obviously they agreed that the political aspects won’t have much to do with religion, rather to the ideas of Mohammad ibn Saud himself. An Islamic state is also run by a khalifa and it’s not a kingdom. Even saudi scholars themselves agree that it isn’t an Islamic state.
 
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pro_universal:
Toby, you only need answer two questions to satisfy your concerns:

Is it possible for a government to claim that it follows a certain religion, without actually following that religion?

Argentina is officially Catholic, for example. Does that mean that corruption and torture are Catholic teaching?

Now you see the problem with your post.
Argentine terrorists? :bigyikes: Maybe leftist guerilla forces, but I’ve never heard of an Argentine terrorist.
 
Semper Fi:
Argentine terrorists? :bigyikes: Maybe leftist guerilla forces, but I’ve never heard of an Argentine terrorist.
Well, we can call them “crusaders” if you want. The term isn’t really relevant; what is relevant is that even though a people claim to follow a religion, it doesn’t follow that they’re actually obeying that religion’s teachings.
 
As far crusade:

First Crusade: 1096.

The undisciplined mobs accompanying the first three Crusades attacked the Jews in Germany, France, and England, and put many of them to death, leaving behind for centuries strong feelings of ill will on both sides. The social position of the Jews in western Europe was distinctly worsened by the Crusades, and legal restrictions became frequent during and after them. They prepared the way for the anti-Jewish legislation of Innocent III., and formed the turning-point in the medieval history of the Jews.

Second Crusade: 1145-47.

During the preparations for the Second Crusade a narrow-minded monk named Radulph preached the Cross in the Rhine valley, and declared that the Jews should be slain as the enemies of the Christian religion.

The Jews were expelled from Magdeburg and Halle. Bernard went to Germany to preach the Cross, and met the monk Radulph in open disputation at Mayence in the beginning of November, 1146, but failed to influence the people in favor of the Jews. He accordingly addressed a letter to the peoples of western Christendom, protesting against the persecution of the Jews. Notwithstanding this, when the crusaders came to Würzburg they slew the rabbi, Isaac ben Eliakim, and about twenty-one men, women, and children, whose bodies were buried by the bishop in his garden. This was ultimately purchased by Hezekiah, the brother of the rabbi, as a graveyard for the Jews (see Würzburg).

Third Crusade: 1189-90.

At the coronation on Sept. 3, 1189, of Richard I., before he started for the Third Crusade, a severe riot occurred, and after he had left the country the crusaders who were preparing to follow him attacked, with the aid of the populace, the Jews at Lynn, Stamford (March 7), Bury St. Edmunds (March 18), Colchester, Thetford, and Ospringe. The chief tragedy, however, occurred at York on the night of March 16, 1190, when 150 Jews of all ages, headed by Rabbi Yom-Tob of Joigny, immolated themselves to escape slaughter or baptism (see York).

Results:

Before the Crusades the Jews had practically a monopoly of trade in Eastern products, but the closer connection between Europe and the East brought about by the Crusades raised up a class of merchant traders among the Christians, and from this time onward restrictions on the sale of goods by Jews became frequent (Höniger, in “Zeit. Gesch. Juden Deutsch.” i. 94 et seq.). The religious zeal fomented by the Crusades burned as fiercely against the Jews as enemies of Christ as against the Moslems.

Thus both economically and socially the Crusades were disastrous for European Jews.

(Bibliography:
First and Second Crusades- Neubauer and Stern, Hebräische Berichte über die Judenverfolgungen Während der Krcuzzüge, Berlin, 1892;
Salfeld, Das Martyrologium des Nürnberger Memorbuches;

Third Crusade- Jacobs, Jews of Angevin England, pp. 99, 134, 385-392. The above account follows mainly Aronius, Regesten, pp. 78-94, 104-116, in preference to Grätz, Gesch. vi. 82-95.)
 
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pro_universal:
Well, we can call them “crusaders” if you want. The term isn’t really relevant; what is relevant is that even though a people claim to follow a religion, it doesn’t follow that they’re actually obeying that religion’s teachings.
Sorry. That State Department report you cited says that Argentina does allow freedom of religion, albeit a lot more than other Muslim countries do. One more thing, Argentine law just states in their constitution that the official religion of Argentina is Catholicism… it is not split up into provinces which are ruled by bishops or have Catholic law imposed on non-Catholic Christians or members of other religions.
 
There religion is free-to-interpret,which means emad your interpretations are different from osamas, does that mean his wrong and your right?
Why should the west have to cherry pick the radicals from the moderates? Islam hasnt at all pushed the west to its limits with terrorism, but there will come a day when that happens and the normal society wont care about the wrong or right interpretations of their holy book, they will just give up trying to protect the religion alltoghether.
 
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melbourne_guy:
There religion is free-to-interpret,which means emad your interpretations are different from osamas, does that mean his wrong and your right?
Why should the west have to cherry pick the radicals from the moderates? Islam hasnt at all pushed the west to its limits with terrorism, but there will come a day when that happens and the normal society wont care about the wrong or right interpretations of their holy book, they will just give up trying to protect the religion alltoghether.
Well Melbourne_guy, I believe you have a very valid point. For example, discussions on here about whether or not Saudi Arabia is a true Islamic state are confusing, because as much as the posters on here insist that S.A. is not an Islamic state, I feel certain that the Saudis would say that it is indeed an Islamic state.

How does one determine the right interpretation of a holy book? By the majority point of view?
 
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Ella:
Well Melbourne_guy, I believe you have a very valid point. For example, discussions on here about whether or not Saudi Arabia is a true Islamic state are confusing, because as much as the posters on here insist that S.A. is not an Islamic state, I feel certain that the Saudis would say that it is indeed an Islamic state.

How does one determine the right interpretation of a holy book? By the majority point of view?
Actually I visited Saudi Arabia numerous times and met with scholars who teach in Ummul Qurra University in Mecca, this is one of the biggest and best Islamic Universities in the world and they themselves admit that SA is not an Islamic state. To know which interpretation is right is simple, just look at how the Prophet peace be upon him applied that verse. Did the Prophet peace be upon him kill people for the sole reason that they weren’t Muslim? Indeed he was very close to many non-Muslims and lived among them.
 
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Emad:
To know which interpretation is right is simple, just look at how the Prophet peace be upon him applied that verse. Did the Prophet peace be upon him kill people for the sole reason that they weren’t Muslim? Indeed he was very close to many non-Muslims and lived among them.
That’s just it - I don’t think it’s simple to know which interpretation is right at all. If it were simple there wouldn’t be so many conflicting interpretations.
 
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Ella:
That’s just it - I don’t think it’s simple to know which interpretation is right at all. If it were simple there wouldn’t be so many conflicting interpretations.
There aren’t so many conflicting interpretations. The same can also be said about the Bible.
 
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