Converts to Catholicsm -- Did you assent to anything you didn't fully believe in?

[shelly5254]

This Easter will be two years since I joined the church. For me, I was nervous about standing before the entire church and reciting the Profession of Faith. At that point I had only had four months of RCIA, how could I state I believed all that the church taught when I barely knew anything at all! I began RCIA with wonders about the saints, purgatory, the need for confession, the pope, and so much more! I have to admit, I was a bit anti-catholic. Several years prior I was invited by my husband’s aunt to Mass. Wanting to be polite I said sure. I remember thinking, if there wasn’t so much time spent on rituals and doing communion every single week there’d be a lot more learning possible. At my old church communion was done on Easter and Christmas. We had long sermons where we were taught. I thought, isn’t that better then a ten minute homily? ! Boy was I way off!! I think the biggest help to me was that for every question I had the church had an answer! I’d ask questions in my old church and get a couple bible verses in response. But the Catholic church has way more then just a couple verses to answer me. The 2, 000 yrs of history is hard to argue with as well.after two years I can’t say I have even 1/4 of the teachings learned but I’m still studying. The more I study the more I see the Church has it right. Even though I don’t know it all I cam honestly say that I trust the Catholic Church’s teachings to be valid. I have never felt so close to Christ in a personal level. I also love that we don’t have to discount things in order to believe in creation. My dad was trying to pusb me to believe in the young earth teachings. Like science was completely wrong. For me, this is absolutely home! Keep researching, God will reveal the truth

 

[petra22]

I did not agree with the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist when I decided to convert. There were other issues, but they were minor compared to the Eucharist. I couldn’t believe that Catholics actually believe that Jesus is physically present in the Eucharidt. I went through RCIA, which did not in itself bring me closer to the belief that Christ is actually present. But, during RCIA (which lasted 18 months), I went to weekly Mass. And, through attending Mass, I began to feel Christ’s presence there. I began to understand that He is still a miracle worker–if God can appear to Moses as a burning bush then He can appear to us in the form of bread and wine. I also felt that He was calling me to trust in Him fully, and that the Eucharist was a test of my faith. Every Mass, I began to crave Him in the Eucharist. I slowly came to believe, but only through His grace. I look back on the entire experience and can see how He gave me more and more Grace, and that He patiently and deliberately led me. My first Holy Communion therefore was one of the most wonderful moments of my entire life, and I believed (without any reservation whatsoever) in Jesus’ presence. My relationship with Him seemed complete for the first time in my life–I felt His overpowering love.

You are on an amazing journey. I know that you trust in Him. Continue to trust in Him, give yourself fully over to Him, and He will lead you where you need to go. God bless you.

For some reason this brought tears to my eyes. Happy tears!!!

 

[Tommy999]

I did not agree with the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist when I decided to convert. There were other issues, but they were minor compared to the Eucharist. I couldn’t believe that Catholics actually believe that Jesus is physically present in the Eucharidt. I went through RCIA, which did not in itself bring me closer to the belief that Christ is actually present. But, during RCIA (which lasted 18 months), I went to weekly Mass. And, through attending Mass, I began to feel Christ’s presence there. I began to understand that He is still a miracle worker–if God can appear to Moses as a burning bush then He can appear to us in the form of bread and wine. I also felt that He was calling me to trust in Him fully, and that the Eucharist was a test of my faith. Every Mass, I began to crave Him in the Eucharist. I slowly came to believe, but only through His grace. I look back on the entire experience and can see how He gave me more and more Grace, and that He patiently and deliberately led me. My first Holy Communion therefore was one of the most wonderful moments of my entire life, and I believed (without any reservation whatsoever) in Jesus’ presence. My relationship with Him seemed complete for the first time in my life–I felt His overpowering love.

You are on an amazing journey. I know that you trust in Him. Continue to trust in Him, give yourself fully over to Him, and He will lead you where you need to go. God bless you.

Thank you very much, mjs2001. I am very impressed with your insights and experience you had with the Eucharist. I will continue to trust in Him to lead and guide me into all truth.

 

[Tommy999]

This Easter will be two years since I joined the church. For me, I was nervous about standing before the entire church and reciting the Profession of Faith. At that point I had only had four months of RCIA, how could I state I believed all that the church taught when I barely knew anything at all! I began RCIA with wonders about the saints, purgatory, the need for confession, the pope, and so much more! I have to admit, I was a bit anti-catholic. Several years prior I was invited by my husband’s aunt to Mass. Wanting to be polite I said sure. I remember thinking, if there wasn’t so much time spent on rituals and doing communion every single week there’d be a lot more learning possible. At my old church communion was done on Easter and Christmas. We had long sermons where we were taught. I thought, isn’t that better then a ten minute homily? ! Boy was I way off!! I think the biggest help to me was that for every question I had the church had an answer! I’d ask questions in my old church and get a couple bible verses in response. But the Catholic church has way more then just a couple verses to answer me. The 2, 000 yrs of history is hard to argue with as well.after two years I can’t say I have even 1/4 of the teachings learned but I’m still studying. The more I study the more I see the Church has it right. Even though I don’t know it all I can honestly say that I trust the Catholic Church’s teachings to be valid. I have never felt so close to Christ in a personal level. I also love that we don’t have to discount things in order to believe in creation. My dad was trying to push me to believe in the young earth teachings. Like science was completely wrong. For me, this is absolutely home! Keep researching, God will reveal the truth

I agree that I have gotten good answers to almost all my questions on CAF. I feel like I’ve grown a lot in my understanding of Catholicism since joining CAF in May but still have a ways to go. I would appreciate everyone’s prayers.

 

[ctb95]

Continued Areas of Struggle:
– Marian dogmas: To me, Catholics run the risk of ascribing Mary divine qualities through titles like "Queen of Heaven’ and “Mother of God”. I believe she is a special and blessed woman for giving birth to Christ, but I can never venerate her to the point where I adore her like she is on a par with God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I would have to learn where to draw the line better before I could feel comfortable praying to Mary.

– **Praying to saints and Mary **(I still go directly to God thru Christ although I have nothing against BVM or the saints. I realize they are in heaven praying for us. I find it unnecessary to pray to them in the same way I find it unnecessary to take a flight from LA to NYC and purposely choose to go through Denver and Chicago when there is a direct non-stop flight available from LA to NYC.

– When does salvation occur/Infant baptism?
My understanding is that Catholics believe in baptizing babies and believe the act of baptism removes the sins of the person/brings salvation.

I believe salvation comes from true faith and repentance in Jesus Christ and a profound spiritual awakening in which a person’s spirit is “born again”, which precedes baptism.

My view infers that the person must be of appropriate age and reason to be able to make this decision freely on their own. In other words, I can’t drag someone else into heaven who doesn’t want to go. Baptizing an infant who obviously doesn’t know what is taking place does not fit what I believe salvation is. I consider it more of a dedication of the parents to raise their child in the Christian faith.

For example, I work with a guy who was born into a Catholic family and was baptized as an infant. He is an atheist now. He doesn’t believe in God at all and thinks Christianity is a fairy tale. Does Catholic doctrine still consider him to be saved? If so, on what basis, since he has obviously forsaken the Christian faith.

That, in a nutshell is where I am at currently. I realize that my views aren’t necessarily always right, because I’ve come to realize there is a God and I’m not Him. So please help me with my struggles if you feel led to do so.

I’ll try to tackle some of the doctrines you have issues with.

Marion Doctrine- Mother of God is an accurate description of Mary. She gave birth to Jesus, who is God. Therefore, she is the Mother of God. This was established in the early Church. I believe the term “Queen of Heaven” is a reference to Revelation, in which the Coronation of Mary is alluded to.

Praying to Saints- It isn’t a requirement to pray to Saints, but I like to think about it like this: Saints are our friends in Heaven. Don’t we ask our friends to pray for us in times of need? So, why not ask the Saints to pray for us?

Baptism- This is a tougher one to explain. Yes, Baptism removes sins (original and actual) and makes salvation possible. When we are at the age when we can decide for ourselves, then we must repent our sins and choose to accept our Faith. We must be born of WATER and the Spirit. You can’t have one without the other. Also, what is the “Age of Reason” to be Baptized at? I would argue that some people of my former faith tradition would be baptized at 10 or 11, and certainly didn’t understand their faith yet.

If someone who is Baptized as a baby rejects their faith later, then nobody will “drag them to Heaven.” Baptism makes salvation possible, but doesn’t guarantee it.

 

[Pulvis]

I went through RCIA and entered the Church in the early 70’s. I was 17 and came out of a southern baptist heritage. The Priest that ran my classes gave me some really good material to read from the pre Vatican II era to learn the Faith. Everything made sense and held up biblically. I would suggest that you spend some time with the encyclicals of earlier Popes and the Church Fathers. I found them to be very helpful in defining and defending the Dogmas and Doctrine of the Faith.

 

[Tommy999]

I’ll try to tackle some of the doctrines you have issues with.

Marion Doctrine- Mother of God is an accurate description of Mary. She gave birth to Jesus, who is God. Therefore, she is the Mother of God. This was established in the early Church. I believe the term “Queen of Heaven” is a reference to Revelation, in which the Coronation of Mary is alluded to.

Praying to Saints- It isn’t a requirement to pray to Saints, but I like to think about it like this: Saints are our friends in Heaven. Don’t we ask our friends to pray for us in times of need? So, why not ask the Saints to pray for us?

Baptism- This is a tougher one to explain. Yes, Baptism removes sins (original and actual) and makes salvation possible. When we are at the age when we can decide for ourselves, then we must repent our sins and choose to accept our Faith. We must be born of WATER and the Spirit. You can’t have one without the other. Also, what is the “Age of Reason” to be Baptized at? I would argue that some people of my former faith tradition would be baptized at 10 or 11, and certainly didn’t understand their faith yet.

If someone who is Baptized as a baby rejects their faith later, then nobody will “drag them to Heaven.” Baptism makes salvation possible, but doesn’t guarantee it.

Thanks for clarifying that part about Catholic baptism that I highlighted, ctb95.
Somehow I was under the impression that Catholics believed that once they are baptized, they’re heaven bound no matter how they live their lives, even to the point of becoming an atheist. Thanks for correcting that.

 

[Tommy999]

I went through RCIA and entered the Church in the early 70’s. I was 17 and came out of a southern baptist heritage. The Priest that ran my classes gave me some really good material to read from the pre Vatican II era to learn the Faith. Everything made sense and held up biblically. I would suggest that you spend some time with the encyclicals of earlier Popes and the Church Fathers. I found them to be very helpful in defining and defending the Dogmas and Doctrine of the Faith.

Thanks, Pulvis. I like your signature, by the way. Isn’t it taken from Genesis 3:19?

“…for dust you are and to dust you will return” (or something to that effect).

 

[YADA]

However…

…we had and still have an extremely difficult time with the common practice of Catholic use of alcohol in social settings.

Intellectually we agree that it’s “OK” for Christians to drink alcohol. We do NOT accept drunkenness as an option for Christians under ANY circumstances, and believe that those Catholics who laugh this off are committing a sin.

But even though we accept alcohol use intellectually, it disgusts us. That’s the only word I can use. The very idea that Christians need to use anything to “make them cheerful” is so contrary to our thinking. We can’t wrap our minds or hearts around that.

What we find even more offensive is when the parishes actually offer alcohol at church social functions. This simply should not be done. Alcohol has so much tragedy and illness associated with it and we believe that Christians should steer clear of it for the sake of those who suffer from addiction to it or who have been hurt by it in some way. Again, we don’t NEED alcohol to be happy when we know Jesus!

But alcohol use is NOT a dogma or doctrine, and it’s not even a church teaching. It’s just a social practice that many Catholics still do. So it’s OK for us to disagree with it and still be Catholic.

Also, I realize that although the majority of Evangelical Protestant churches are filled with people who never drink under any circumstances, it’s changing. We are always shocked when we see Evangelical Protestants drinking, but apparently it’s now accepted practice in many Evangelical Protestant churches. Many Catholics will say that Evangelical Protestants have always been “closet drinkers,” but this is insulting and wrong. We lived among Evangelical Protestants for 47 years, and we testify that in all those years, we only saw a few people (about 3) who took a drink of alcohol other than Nyquil. I’m sure there were alcoholics who hid their disease from all of us. But we never observed alcohol use or saw alcohol in the homes of all the thousands of Evangelical Protestants that we knew. And our families never used it. It wasn’t needed.

Your post made me laugh and remember what it was like growing up in the Church of Christ [absolutely staunch no alcohol, no smoking, no dancing, no make-up, etc.] … my step sister and I were chatting over the new years holiday and she was telling me about learning that the cedar chest in her parents bedroom - kept locked - was where her parents kept the booze for the times they imbibed …our Aunt Lu - she never went out to a bar in our little southern Oregon town - but she did go out of town - Reno was close enough and far enough … By the time we were in our fifties - we came to realize that all of our parents imbibed … not every day I am sure and they kept it even from their siblings who were also keeping it from them … 8 children - all Church of Christ and all good at being nice respectable people … but they were just very careful about their humanness. Divorce was also scandalous … but the family had a few … also a few babies that ‘came premature’ … and even a few babies without married parents these latter years … who’d a thought

My step dad smoked - I am sure all of his brother in laws knew - but not his sisters … All of the brother in laws went hunting and fishing … and I remember a discussion my uncle had with my dad when we were really broke he was struggling to put food on the table - Ralph told my dad he should take a mountain beef … my aunt was appalled when she realized that he was talking about taking a deer out of season … and Ralph laughed at her and ask her where she thought the camp meat came from [as the aunts did go along some years] =it was a doe taken the night before the season started … those very proper ladies just did not think about people doing the ‘wrong’ thing …

If you think that only Catholics and Unbelievers have been keeping the adult beverage industry cranking throughout the centuries - you - just like my aunt - have blinders on.

The Church does not condone drunkenness - alcohol is not evil and for more people partake of a glass then you probably know …

Also - this was a common complaint about Catholics in the Church of Christ household I grew up in … Catholics can sin all week long and go to confession on Saturday then go out and sin [getting drunk was the most common sin supposedly] … The Confession box is not a free Saturday pass so that each week for people to drink to drunkenness or any other sin … it is not now nor has it ever been …

Also - I know lots and lots of Catholics who do not drink at all - even forgoing the Cup at Mass … most drink occasionally and the proportions are about the same as any other demographic … drinking alcohol was just attached to sin … drunkenness … but not the drink …

 

[Usige]

Thanks for clarifying that part about Catholic baptism that I highlighted, ctb95.
Somehow I was under the impression that Catholics believed that once they are baptized, they’re heaven bound no matter how they live their lives, even to the point of becoming an atheist. Thanks for correcting that.

I think this is something where Protestant and Catholics are fairly far apart. Catholics do not subscribe to the “once saved always saved” philosophy. Basically I see it as baptism opens the door to salvation, but our actions and free will allow us to walk away from it. That is the whole reason we have confession and absolution. If Catholics subscribed to once saved then there would be no reason for repentance and sacramental absolution.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Moved to Apologetics.

 

[Tommy999]

I think this is something where Protestant and Catholics are fairly far apart. Catholics do not subscribe to the “once saved always saved” philosophy. Basically I see it as baptism opens the door to salvation, but our actions and free will allow us to walk away from it. That is the whole reason we have confession and absolution. If Catholics subscribed to once saved then there would be no reason for repentance and sacramental absolution.

I realize that there are those who subscribe to the “once saved always saved” philosophy regarding salvation, especially faith traditions like Southern Baptists. I want to clarify that I do not believe in this (OSAS) and never have. I also believe that our actions and free will allow us to walk away from it.

However, I believe in what some people refer to as a “believer’s baptism” in which someone who puts his faith and trust in Christ and who truly repents of his sins with a contrite heart can get baptized and profess publicly that he is a Christ follower. Is that sort of what the Catholic rite of Confirmation is? I realize I may be comparing apples and oranges here and still may be confused. Please forgive me if that is the case.

 

[ctb95]

I realize that there are those who subscribe to the “once saved always saved” philosophy regarding salvation, especially faith traditions like Southern Baptists. I want to clarify that I do not believe in this (OSAS) and never have.

However, I believe in what some people refer to as a “believer’s baptism” in which someone who puts his faith and trust in Christ and who truly repents of his sins with a contrite heart can get baptized for the remission of his sins and profess publicly that he is a Christ follower. Is that sort of what the Catholic rite of Confirmation is? I realize I may be comparing apples and oranges here and still may be confused. Please forgive me if that is the case.

They are somewhat different. As a Mennonite, we subscribed to “Believer’s Baptism.” Yes, it is publicly professing your inward acceptance of Jesus. I believe that the Rite of Confirmation more or less fills the recipient with the Holy Spirit. The difference is that in Believer’s Baptism, the act is symbolic. In Confirmation, the act itself causes a spiritual change.

See Acts 8:14-17

 

[Usige]

I realize that there are those who subscribe to the “once saved always saved” philosophy regarding salvation, especially faith traditions like Southern Baptists. I want to clarify that I do not believe in this (OSAS) and never have. I also believe that our actions and free will allow us to walk away from it.

My apologizes. I should not have painted all protestants with the broad brush of OSAS. I was really trying to point out that Catholics do not subscribe to a concept that baptism is a guarantee of heaven. Catholic belief that heaven involved both faith and action is one of the things many protestants call the Church out on.

However, I believe in what some people refer to as a “believer’s baptism” in which someone who puts his faith and trust in Christ and who truly repents of his sins with a contrite heart can get baptized and profess publicly that he is a Christ follower. Is that sort of what the Catholic rite of Confirmation is? I realize I may be comparing apples and oranges here and still may be confused. Please forgive me if that is the case.

Confirmation is not the same as a “believer’s baptism”. Some still erroneous teach that Confirmation is about publicly accepting to become a full member of the Church, but that is not what it is meant to be. Baptism and Confirmation are actually a double sacrament that are intimately related. Confirmation is a outpouring of the Holy Spirit as happened at Pentecost and completes what was begun in Baptism. Remember that Confirmation can occur before the age of reason when a child is in danger of death (CCC 1307). Delaying confirmation until after the age of reason is merely discipline of the Latin Church, but is not an absolute requirement. Our eastern brothers still validly perform infant Baptism, Confirmation (aka Chrismation), and Eucharist all at the same time.

The closest you really have to a “beleiver’s baptism” in Catholocism is when were profess the creed each week during Mass and when we affirm our baptismal promises each year at Easter. Obviously it’s not the same thing.

In retrospect, I guess the thing that would be closer is when one consecrates themselves to the Sacred Heart of Jesus:

O Sacred Heart of Jesus, to Thee I consecrate and offer up my person and my life, my actions, trials, and sufferings, that my entire being may henceforth only be employed in loving, honoring and glorifying Thee. This is my irrevocable will, to belong entirely to Thee, and to do all for Thy love, renouncing with my whole heart all that can displease Thee.

I take Thee, O Sacred Heart, for the sole object of my love, the protection of my life, the pledge of my salvation, the remedy of my frailty and inconstancy, the reparation for all the defects of my life, and my secure refuge at the hour of my death. Be Thou, O Most Merciful Heart, my justification before God Thy Father, and screen me from His anger which I have so justly merited. I fear all from my own weakness and malice, but placing my entire confidence in Thee, O Heart of Love, I hope all from Thine infinite Goodness. Annihilate in me all that can displease or resist Thee. Imprint Thy pure love so deeply in my heart that I may never forget Thee or be separated from Thee.

I beseech Thee, through Thine infinite Goodness, grant that my name be engraved upon Thy Heart, for in this I place all my happiness and all my glory, to live and to die as one of Thy devoted servants.

Amen.

 

[Duane1966]

My husband and I are Evangelical Protestants who converted to Catholicism in 2004.

I know you will recognize the names of these people who we grew up with my childhood church: Evelyn Christenson, John Ortberg, Gary Smalley, Steve Douglass. I played piano for John! And Gary was a pastor in my church. And Evelyn was my pastor’s wife! We also had regular contact with people like Dr. Bill Bright, Erwin Lutzer, and other great Evangelicals.

So we came out of some of the most orthodox and respected Evangelical Protestant churches in the world.

We believed fully in the Catholic doctrines and dogma because we found them all to be completely consistent with the Bible, which we knew well.

However…

…we had and still have an extremely difficult time with the common practice of Catholic use of alcohol in social settings.

Intellectually we agree that it’s “OK” for Christians to drink alcohol. We do NOT accept drunkenness as an option for Christians under ANY circumstances, and believe that those Catholics who laugh this off are committing a sin.

But even though we accept alcohol use intellectually, it disgusts us. That’s the only word I can use. The very idea that Christians need to use anything to “make them cheerful” is so contrary to our thinking. We can’t wrap our minds or hearts around that.

What we find even more offensive is when the parishes actually offer alcohol at church social functions. This simply should not be done. Alcohol has so much tragedy and illness associated with it and we believe that Christians should steer clear of it for the sake of those who suffer from addiction to it or who have been hurt by it in some way. Again, we don’t NEED alcohol to be happy when we know Jesus!

But alcohol use is NOT a dogma or doctrine, and it’s not even a church teaching. It’s just a social practice that many Catholics still do. So it’s OK for us to disagree with it and still be Catholic.

Also, I realize that although the majority of Evangelical Protestant churches are filled with people who never drink under any circumstances, it’s changing. We are always shocked when we see Evangelical Protestants drinking, but apparently it’s now accepted practice in many Evangelical Protestant churches. Many Catholics will say that Evangelical Protestants have always been “closet drinkers,” but this is insulting and wrong. We lived among Evangelical Protestants for 47 years, and we testify that in all those years, we only saw a few people (about 3) who took a drink of alcohol other than Nyquil. I’m sure there were alcoholics who hid their disease from all of us. But we never observed alcohol use or saw alcohol in the homes of all the thousands of Evangelical Protestants that we knew. And our families never used it. It wasn’t needed.

Many Catholics do not know this, but it is a mortal sin do be drunk. There is inherently nothing wrong with drinking, as long as it is in moderation. There is no doubt that Jesus and the Apostles drank alcohol.

From Matthew 11

“To what shall I compare this generation?**It is like children who sit in marketplaces and call to one another,
17‘We played the flute for you, but you did not dance, we sang a dirge but you did not mourn.’
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they said, ‘He is possessed by a demon.’
19The Son of Man came eating and drinking* and they said, ‘Look, he is a glutton and a DRUNKARD , a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is vindicated by her works.**

 

[slh3016]

Continued Areas of Struggle:
– Marian dogmas: To me, Catholics run the risk of ascribing Mary divine qualities through titles like "Queen of Heaven’ and “Mother of God”. I believe she is a special and blessed woman for giving birth to Christ, but I can never venerate her to the point where I adore her like she is on a par with God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I would have to learn where to draw the line better before I could feel comfortable praying to Mary.

I am not Catholic yet but in the discerning process. Yes, this too, troubles me, but my recently converted Catholic friend just explained to me that you are NEVER forced to pray to Mary. Actually, she and her husband have never done. She doesn’t feel it’s wrong, though, nor would she discourage others from doing so. I think that’s all Catholicism really requires.

Continued in next post…

 

[slh3016]

– **Praying to saints and Mary **(I still go directly to God thru Christ although I have nothing against BVM or the saints. I realize they are in heaven praying for us. I find it unnecessary to pray to them in the same way I find it unnecessary to take a flight from LA to NYC and purposely choose to go through Denver and Chicago when there is a direct non-stop flight available from LA to NYC.

Again, I sometimes struggle with this thought as well, but If I were sick or my children were sick, I’d be asking EVERYONE to pray for me or them! That doesn’t mean you don’t go directly to God with your own prayers but the Bible does say, “The prayers of a righteous man availeth much” and if we are going to SAINTS and MARY, how much more righteous can we get? Actually, I don’t even like the phrase, “Praying to Mary or St. ________”, I think the phrase, “Praying through ____” is much more appropriate. We take our requests to them and ask them to pray alongside us.

– When does salvation occur/Infant baptism?
My understanding is that Catholics believe in baptizing babies and believe the act of baptism removes the sins of the person/brings salvation.

I believe salvation comes from true faith and repentance in Jesus Christ and a profound spiritual awakening in which a person’s spirit is “born again”, which precedes baptism.

My view infers that the person must be of appropriate age and reason to be able to make this decision freely on their own. In other words, I can’t drag someone else into heaven who doesn’t want to go. Baptizing an infant who obviously doesn’t know what is taking place does not fit what I believe salvation is. I consider it more of a dedication of the parents to raise their child in the Christian faith.

I struggled with this for a time, but my children were baptized today {in a Protestant church at ages 11 and 7}; the oldest had previously expressed his belief in Jesus and had asked about baptism and my husband and I, in coming to accept the Catholic view of baptism, encouraged our younger daughters to be baptized as well. When I say “encouraged”, I don’t mean forced by any means because, in their own way, they do TRULY believe just as their older brother. Who were we to keep them from coming to Christ and judging the validity of their faith. I have a HUGE problem with adults doing this to children, especially when Jesus says to let the children come to him. I had/have a huge beef with ministers asking people, especially children, to jump through hoops that are nowhere to be found in Scripture such as telling them that there is ONE “magical” moment that you went from not believing to believing or, IOW, “when were you saved?”

Here is a quote I found on another CAF thread that really explained to me the purpose of baptism and why it is necessary:

According to the teachings of Mar Timothy II, a 14th century Patriarch of the Church of the East, a similar question was posited in his treatise on the Holy Mysteries (Sacraments):

If baptism is for the remission of sins why do we baptize infants and children although they do not have sin? In fact, children are brought to baptism although they are without sin ?].

Here is how he responds:

(1) We say: Through the aberration from God men brought down and placed upon their freedom the yoke of servitude of sin. By transgressing the command all the children of Adam became servants of sin like the one who is born of a slave is a slave until he receives emancipation from slavery.

(2) When therefore, the way of God was manifested to men through heavenly light, the wall before them was brought down by their reconciliation with God. And because of their reconciliation with Him they became worthy to be brought for the adoption of sons; because they are freed from their servitude they are worthy of the adoption of sons.

(3) Baptism for the freedom of life is given in the glorious name of the Trinity. Because it is improper that (children) receive the name of the sons of God when they are slaves of sin, they are first set free from the yoke of servitude of sin and then they become worthy of the adoption of sons that they may receive the inheritance of God in their freedom. It is because of this that those who are without sin, like infants and children, are also brought to baptism. The gift for them is not meaningless, because they are born in servitude and they are slaves of the sin of the first man which reigned over all mankind by the transgression of the law (of God). But in baptism they receive their liberation and through the adoption of sons their union takes place. Therefore, we baptize infants although they are without sin, that they be freed from the servitude (of sin) and may become the sons of God.

Taken from Mysteries of the Kingdom: The Sacraments of the Assyrian Church of the East by Bishop Mar Awa Royel, pages 149-150.

Also, I heard Steve Ray (a convert from Protestantism) brilliantly make a case for infant baptism on this Journey Home program:

youtube.com/watch?v=XVu9MPB4XHM

His comments on baptism start around 26:30 into the program (but the entire program is phenomenal so listen to the baptism part and then go back and listen to the entire thing )

Hope this helps!

 

[slh3016]

My husband and I are Evangelical Protestants who converted to Catholicism in 2004.

I know you will recognize the names of these people who we grew up with my childhood church: Evelyn Christenson, John Ortberg, Gary Smalley, Steve Douglass. I played piano for John! And Gary was a pastor in my church. And Evelyn was my pastor’s wife! We also had regular contact with people like Dr. Bill Bright, Erwin Lutzer, and other great Evangelicals.

So we came out of some of the most orthodox and respected Evangelical Protestant churches in the world.

We believed fully in the Catholic doctrines and dogma because we found them all to be completely consistent with the Bible, which we knew well.

However…

…we had and still have an extremely difficult time with the common practice of Catholic use of alcohol in social settings.

Intellectually we agree that it’s “OK” for Christians to drink alcohol. We do NOT accept drunkenness as an option for Christians under ANY circumstances, and believe that those Catholics who laugh this off are committing a sin.

But even though we accept alcohol use intellectually, it disgusts us. That’s the only word I can use. The very idea that Christians need to use anything to “make them cheerful” is so contrary to our thinking. We can’t wrap our minds or hearts around that.

What we find even more offensive is when the parishes actually offer alcohol at church social functions. This simply should not be done. Alcohol has so much tragedy and illness associated with it and we believe that Christians should steer clear of it for the sake of those who suffer from addiction to it or who have been hurt by it in some way. Again, we don’t NEED alcohol to be happy when we know Jesus!

But alcohol use is NOT a dogma or doctrine, and it’s not even a church teaching. It’s just a social practice that many Catholics still do. So it’s OK for us to disagree with it and still be Catholic.

Also, I realize that although the majority of Evangelical Protestant churches are filled with people who never drink under any circumstances, it’s changing. We are always shocked when we see Evangelical Protestants drinking, but apparently it’s now accepted practice in many Evangelical Protestant churches. Many Catholics will say that Evangelical Protestants have always been “closet drinkers,” but this is insulting and wrong. We lived among Evangelical Protestants for 47 years, and we testify that in all those years, we only saw a few people (about 3) who took a drink of alcohol other than Nyquil. I’m sure there were alcoholics who hid their disease from all of us. But we never observed alcohol use or saw alcohol in the homes of all the thousands of Evangelical Protestants that we knew. And our families never used it. It wasn’t needed.

I totally get what you are saying. However, maybe this example from my friend will put a new perspective on things.

My friend and her husband recently converted to the Catholic Church; one day a year or so ago, her husband came home, sat down to dinner with a drink, and had an unexpected visitor, who just so happened to be an elder in a small town Church of Christ. He walked into MY FRIEND’S HOME and proceeded to berate her husband for drinking and spouting out all the evils of it. Her husband graciously bit his tongue as to not perpetuate the situation, but his later comment struck me hard. He said, “What is the difference in me sitting down to have a glass of _______ at the end of a long day to settle my nerves and that guy having to take his Xanax everyday for his anxiety?” (which, btw, was a TRUE statement!)

We don’t look down on people who have prescriptions for those things, but it’s sure easy to point the finger at someone drinking a glass of spirits in moderation, at home or otherwise.

 

[inHIMiTRUST85]

TOMMY, BLESSING TO YOU MY BROTHER!

I am in RCIA, and have come from a Pentecostal and non-denominational past. As I researched the Catholic faith, the history of all churches, along with prayer and humility, my journey led me the Catholic Church.

As for the obstacles, your not alone. I myself have overcome most of the obstacles, and in the process of overcoming the last couple. I’ve learned that, the Catholic Church has the authority, and most issues I have had a problem understanding or agreeing with is based on past protestant misconceptions and lies that have been fed to me. Erase the misconceptions and it wouldn’t be an issue.

REMIND YOURSELF, that this is a process not to be rushed, continue praying for humility and understanding in Gods truths, and it will all work out.

When it clicked that the Catholic Church was the ONE, TRUE Church… it was not a “yippee” feeling. More of a “truth hurts” feeling haha

But I have come to fall in love with the Church, its resources, and my humble- serving- loving, and not “weird” brethren. (weird as in, no “holy laughter” “word faith movement” “prosperity driven” “fire-brimstone”) lol

God Bless brotha

 

[jmcrae]

Background:
I am an evangelical protestant who is considering Catholicism after I stumbled onto a Catholic radio station on my way to and from work several months ago and have been listening to it ever since, which led me to CAF.

This gives me hope.

Welcome! I hope you come to the fullness of the Faith.

Question for Protestant converts to Catholicism:
In order to become Catholic, did you assent to at least one Catholic belief that you had issues with at the time of conversion only to later grow to believe in it or did you wait until you were able to believe in everything completely before converting?

If so, can you elaborate how you were able to overcome your obstacle and come to believe in the belief that had caused you to struggle earlier on?

Much obliged. :tiphat:

I still have private opinions that differ a little bit from the official teaching of the Church, but they aren’t things that have any direct effect on my own life, and I keep these opinions to myself as far as possible.

I’m fully aware that I have some kind of a misunderstanding somewhere, and in the fullness of time, I’ll figure out what’s wrong with my logic.

Meanwhile, I teach what the Church teaches, and live according to the Church’s laws and precepts.

I know that this will happen, because when I didn’t understand why women can’t be priests, God put people in my path who were able to explain it in a way that made perfect sense.

This also happened with a number of other issues, as well, so I know the same thing will happen with these other things that I don’t yet understand very well.