Convincing a 99% atheist

[Helpful_Atheist]

Well I as an atheist I have a few comments to make about this story and hopefully can set things straight about atheists
For starters just because your friend agreed that most modern Christians aren’t a good example of Christianity does not mean that a.) he has not experienced this before, a problem many Christians seem to have with atheists is that they think atheists don’t properly understand Christianity and this is why they don’t believe when in reality they do fully understand and that is why they don’t believe. b.) Your friend agreeing with you or even talking about religion doesn’t mean he wants to or is open to conversion but merely that he enjoys talking about religion.

Another thing I found off-putting about this story was the comment you made about how atheists are only atheists to justify a godless lifestyle which is not only blatantly false but very insulting. It would be similar if I were to say that Christianity only exists so people can justify a lifestyle in which they hate other people and want them to suffer eternally, this idea is insulting to Christians and just not true. Atheists often have their views because they have put a lot of thought into the subject and genuinely don’t believe in God.

Finally the bit at the end about him “only” being a 99% atheist does not mean he is open to conversion or willing to convert because most people who hold positions are willing to be swayed by new evidence and just because James does not admit absolute certainty does not mean he is certain.

 

[ptisme]

Well I as an atheist I have a few comments to make about this story and hopefully can set things straight about atheists
For starters just because your friend agreed that most modern Christians aren’t a good example of Christianity does not mean that a.) he has not experienced this before, a problem many Christians seem to have with atheists is that they think atheists don’t properly understand Christianity and this is why they don’t believe when in reality they do fully understand and that is why they don’t believe. b.) Your friend agreeing with you or even talking about religion doesn’t mean he wants to or is open to conversion but merely that he enjoys talking about religion.

Another thing I found off-putting about this story was the comment you made about how atheists are only atheists to justify a godless lifestyle which is not only blatantly false but very insulting. It would be similar if I were to say that Christianity only exists so people can justify a lifestyle in which they hate other people and want them to suffer eternally, this idea is insulting to Christians and just not true. Atheists often have their views because they have put a lot of thought into the subject and genuinely don’t believe in God.

Finally the bit at the end about him “only” being a 99% atheist does not mean he is open to conversion or willing to convert because most people who hold positions are willing to be swayed by new evidence and just because James does not admit absolute certainty does not mean he is certain.

I think this is a pretty good summary from the atheists I’ve run across. I have a FB friend who grew up Christian but now is an atheist. He knows as much about Christianity as most run of the mill Christians do… Here’s the thing about him that I don’t get: 1. Our life is wayyyy too short and eternity is forever. Why would you put your soul at risk like that? It’s not like he has proof that there is NO God. If you have to believe in something you can’t prove why not take the safe route.
2. Even if he were right and we all just turn to dust upon death and that’s it… There are so many benefits to Christianity such as:
a. much less worry (you put your problems at the feet of Christ) leading to much less depression/anxiety.
b. Death and suffering become much more tolerable. With redemptive suffering we have a way to make a goodly purpose for inevitable suffering. I don’t know how I could bear some of the things that occur in life if I wasn’t able to “offer it up”…

fisheaters.com/offeringitup.html

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I think this is a pretty good summary from the atheists I’ve run across. I have a FB friend who grew up Christian but now is an atheist. He knows as much about Christianity as most run of the mill Christians do… Here’s the thing about him that I don’t get: 1. Our life is wayyyy too short and eternity is forever. Why would you put your soul at risk like that? It’s not like he has proof that there is NO God. If you have to believe in something you can’t prove why not take the safe route.
2. Even if he were right and we all just turn to dust upon death and that’s it… There are so many benefits to Christianity such as:
a. much less worry (you put your problems at the feet of Christ) leading to much less depression/anxiety.
b. Death and suffering become much more tolerable. With redemptive suffering we have a way to make a goodly purpose for inevitable suffering. I don’t know how I could bear some of the things that occur in life if I wasn’t able to “offer it up”…

fisheaters.com/offeringitup.html

But what of those who experience the opposite effect, sort of related to what Helpful Atheist said?

 

[ptisme]

But what of those who experience the opposite effect, sort of related to what Helpful Atheist said?

I’m sorry, I’m not sure what the opposite is and I don’t want to try answering until you elaborate for me. thx PT

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I’m sorry, I’m not sure what the opposite is and I don’t want to try answering until you elaborate for me. thx PT

I should not have said anything. End of threadjack and sorry.

 

[Helpful_Atheist]

I think this is a pretty good summary from the atheists I’ve run across. I have a FB friend who grew up Christian but now is an atheist. He knows as much about Christianity as most run of the mill Christians do… Here’s the thing about him that I don’t get: 1. Our life is wayyyy too short and eternity is forever. Why would you put your soul at risk like that? It’s not like he has proof that there is NO God. If you have to believe in something you can’t prove why not take the safe route.
2. Even if he were right and we all just turn to dust upon death and that’s it… There are so many benefits to Christianity such as:
a. much less worry (you put your problems at the feet of Christ) leading to much less depression/anxiety.
b. Death and suffering become much more tolerable. With redemptive suffering we have a way to make a goodly purpose for inevitable suffering. I don’t know how I could bear some of the things that occur in life if I wasn’t able to “offer it up”…

fisheaters.com/offeringitup.html

Well there are a few misconceptions here that I need to touch on, first in regards to why not just believe there are a few reasons. 1.) atheists don’t choose what to believe or not believe so saying why not just believe in Jesus is like saying well why not just believe the moon is made of cheese that way you can escape the cheese prison. What cheese prison you ask? Well if you don’t believe the moon is made of cheese when you die you go to the eternal cheese prison. So what do you say do you know believe the moon is made of cheese? Even if the cheese prison scared you and you wanted to believe the moon was made of cheese could you believe that? Well this s how atheists view hell. I don’t think hell is real so I’m not scared of it so I have no reason to convert and even if I was scared of it I couldn’t actually make myself believe something I think is false.
In regards to death being more bearable I am not scared of death and in fact face no anxiety of it. and for suffering I think it is bad but I don’t need an excuse to say that it all works out in the end.

 

[ptisme]

Well there are a few misconceptions here that I need to touch on, first in regards to why not just believe there are a few reasons. 1.) atheists don’t choose what to believe or not believe so saying why not just believe in Jesus is like saying well why not just believe the moon is made of cheese that way you can escape the cheese prison. What cheese prison you ask? Well if you don’t believe the moon is made of cheese when you die you go to the eternal cheese prison. So what do you say do you know believe the moon is made of cheese? Even if the cheese prison scared you and you wanted to believe the moon was made of cheese could you believe that? Well this s how atheists view hell. I don’t think hell is real so I’m not scared of it so I have no reason to convert and even if I was scared of it I couldn’t actually make myself believe something I think is false.
In regards to death being more bearable I am not scared of death and in fact face no anxiety of it. and for suffering I think it is bad but I don’t need an excuse to say that it all works out in the end.

Comparing Christians to the moon being made of cheese is a bit disingenuous and frankly is insulting to Christians. Obviously those of us who have faith believe for good reason. A bit doubtful that 11 of the 12 apostles who knew Jesus Christ would allow themselves to be crucified, stoned to death and boiled if Jesus truly didn’t rise from the dead. Goes a bit deeper than “cheese prison”. I will do my best to respectfully disagree with you but I will never insinuate that you are “stupid” because you have FAITH that there is no God…

 

[ynotzap]

Well I as an atheist I have a few comments to make about this story and hopefully can set things straight about atheists
For starters just because your friend agreed that most modern Christians aren’t a good example of Christianity does not mean that a.) he has not experienced this before, a problem many Christians seem to have with atheists is that they think atheists don’t properly understand Christianity and this is why they don’t believe when in reality they do fully understand and that is why they don’t believe. b.) Your friend agreeing with you or even talking about religion doesn’t mean he wants to or is open to conversion but merely that he enjoys talking about religion.

Answer:
Could you please explain your statement (a) that in reality they do fully understand, and that’s why they don"t believe.

Another thing I found off-putting about this story was the comment you made about how atheists are only atheists to justify a godless lifestyle which is not only blatantly false but very insulting. It would be similar if I were to say that Christianity only exists so people can justify a lifestyle in which they hate other people and want them to suffer eternally, this idea is insulting to Christians and just not true. Atheists often have their views because they have put a lot of thought into the subject and genuinely don’t believe in God.

Answer:
An informed Christian knows that he can not convert anyone, but can give reasons for believing, that Faith in Christianity is reasonable. If one puts a lot of thought in the subject, then it must be worth thinking about. Why would an atheist who does a lot of thinking not be interested, and surely he has a desire to know the truth, it’s in humanity’s nature. Even a liar doesn’t like to be lied to.

Finally the bit at the end about him “only” being a 99% atheist does not mean he is open to conversion or willing to convert because most people who hold positions are willing to be swayed by new evidence and just because James does not admit absolute certainty does not mean he is certain.

 

[Helpful_Atheist]

Comparing Christians to the moon being made of cheese is a bit disingenuous and frankly is insulting to Christians. Obviously those of us who have faith believe for good reason. A bit doubtful that 11 of the 12 apostles who knew Jesus Christ would allow themselves to be crucified, stoned to death and boiled if Jesus truly didn’t rise from the dead. Goes a bit deeper than “cheese prison”. I will do my best to respectfully disagree with you but I will never insinuate that you are “stupid” because you have FAITH that there is no God…

One I was not saying Christianity is like believing the moon is made out of cheese I simply used an example that I was sure you would disagree with, secondly just because someone is willing to die for something doesn’t mean they are correct ie. anyone who dies for a religion other than Christianity as all religions have had people willing to die for their beliefs, this doesn’t make all religions true. Lastly I do not have faith in anything, including a lack of belief in any god. I lack belief in god because I also lack evidence. If you or anyone else could show me proof that god exists then I would be happy to believe in him, until such time I will remain an atheist. I appreciate your respectful disagreement and not calling me stupid(despite the faulty claim about faith)

PS: I am not insinuating Christians are stupid, just in case you got that vibe, while I don’t personally know you or anyone else on this site I am sure you are all intelligent people

 

[ptisme]

One I was not saying Christianity is like believing the moon is made out of cheese I simply used an example that I was sure you would disagree with, secondly just because someone is willing to die for something doesn’t mean they are correct ie. anyone who dies for a religion other than Christianity as all religions have had people willing to die for their beliefs, this doesn’t make all religions true. Lastly I do not have faith in anything, including a lack of belief in any god. I lack belief in god because I also lack evidence. If you or anyone else could show me proof that god exists then I would be happy to believe in him, until such time I will remain an atheist. I appreciate your respectful disagreement and not calling me stupid(despite the faulty claim about faith)

PS: I am not insinuating Christians are stupid, just in case you got that vibe, while I don’t personally know you or anyone else on this site I am sure you are all intelligent people

Fair enough. I appreciate that and apologize.

 

[ptisme]

One I was not saying Christianity is like believing the moon is made out of cheese I simply used an example that I was sure you would disagree with, secondly just because someone is willing to die for something doesn’t mean they are correct ie. anyone who dies for a religion other than Christianity as all religions have had people willing to die for their beliefs, this doesn’t make all religions true. Lastly I do not have faith in anything, including a lack of belief in any god. I lack belief in god because I also lack evidence. If you or anyone else could show me proof that god exists then I would be happy to believe in him, until such time I will remain an atheist. I appreciate your respectful disagreement and not calling me stupid(despite the faulty claim about faith)

PS: I am not insinuating Christians are stupid, just in case you got that vibe, while I don’t personally know you or anyone else on this site I am sure you are all intelligent people

Just curious. If you lack faith and since no one here can produce God to come down from the heavens to offer proof… Why are you on this website?

 

[Helpful_Atheist]

Just curious. If you lack faith and since no one here can produce God to come down from the heavens to offer proof… Why are you on this website?

Well I’m here for a few reasons, One is to help people with questions or misconceptions about atheists find answers from someone who is willing to respond with patience and understanding. While most atheists in person are nice people the internet is full of nastiness and meanness and I try to dispel that perception of atheists from people who have never met one in person.

Secondly I often find myself having questions about Christianity that intrigue me and this seems like a good of a place as any to ask those questions.

 

[Helpful_Atheist]

Fair enough. I appreciate that and apologize.

I also appreciate the apology and hopefully in the future I can use an example that won’t give the wrong impression.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

One I was not saying Christianity is like believing the moon is made out of cheese I simply used an example that I was sure you would disagree with, secondly just because someone is willing to die for something doesn’t mean they are correct ie. anyone who dies for a religion other than Christianity as all religions have had people willing to die for their beliefs, this doesn’t make all religions true. Lastly I do not have faith in anything, including a lack of belief in any god. I lack belief in god because I also lack evidence. If you or anyone else could show me proof that god exists then I would be happy to believe in him, until such time I will remain an atheist. I appreciate your respectful disagreement and not calling me stupid(despite the faulty claim about faith)

PS: I am not insinuating Christians are stupid, just in case you got that vibe, while I don’t personally know you or anyone else on this site I am sure you are all intelligent people

Butting in again to say that for me, (former science reporter) the incredible complexity of life constitutes proof. One missing molecule, and it doesn’t happen.

You can’t see the wind. But you can feel its effects.

 

[ptisme]

I also appreciate the apology and hopefully in the future I can use an example that won’t give the wrong impression.

No problem. I was unnecessarily in full defensive mode. Question for you. Talking to you reminds me of a video I watched a few weeks back which is linked below. Can you relate to this woman’s story and could you ever see yourself traveling down the path she did?

youtu.be/sXmX8NrpaLE

 

[ptisme]

Butting in again to say that for me, (former science reporter) the incredible complexity of life constitutes proof. One missing molecule, and it doesn’t happen.

You can’t see the wind. But you can feel its effects.

My undergrad was a Biology degree. Dissecting a human heart/brain etc and being fascinated by all the redundancies in the human body was amazing. It really leaves no doubt for me that there was a force behind that. The other option is nearly mathematically impossible. If the amount of energy that was expended during the Big Bang was minutely more or minutely, less none of this would have been possible .

 

[Helpful_Atheist]

Butting in again to say that for me, (former science reporter) the incredible complexity of life constitutes proof. One missing molecule, and it doesn’t happen.

You can’t see the wind. But you can feel its effects.

Well the issue of complexity isn’t one that bothers me much, seeing how life can evolve from something simpler to more complex forms while amazing doesn’t seem to me as anything that couldn’t have happened unnaturally.(and while we can’t see the wind we can measure it)

 

[Helpful_Atheist]

My undergrad was a Biology degree. Dissecting a human heart/brain etc and being fascinated by all the redundancies in the human body was amazing. It really leaves no doubt for me that there was a force behind that. The other option is nearly mathematically impossible. If the amount of energy that was expended during the Big Bang was minutely more or minutely, less none of this would have been possible .

And while the human body seems great there are also plenty of awkward and dangerous aspects of it, ie. breathing and eating out of the same hole, having our reproductive organs next to our waste disposal. And the problem of saying that the universe is so close to not being there is that we can’t say how often it could not happen. For example with the universe saying that it is unlikely to have happened we don’t know how often it could have happened or how many failed chances the universe had in starting.

(On the note of the video I am currently watching it, and to be honest I do not see myself making the same journey[partially because the former atheist on the show does no know much about secular morality and the examples she brings up of social Darwinism or killing babies over pigs or them basically calling secular morals nazism])

 

[ptisme]

And while the human body seems great there are also plenty of awkward and dangerous aspects of it, ie. breathing and eating out of the same hole, having our reproductive organs next to our waste disposal. And the problem of saying that the universe is so close to not being there is that we can’t say how often it could not happen. For example with the universe saying that it is unlikely to have happened we don’t know how often it could have happened or how many failed chances the universe had in starting.

(On the note of the video I am currently watching it, and to be honest I do not see myself making the same journey[partially because the former atheist on the show does no know much about secular morality and the examples she brings up of social Darwinism or killing babies over pigs or them basically calling secular morals nazism])

I guess I wasn’t so much asking if you agreed with her on issues of atheism so much as I was asking if you could see yourself becoming a follower of Christ one day or if you’ve completely ruled it out?

 

[Helpful_Atheist]

I guess I wasn’t so much asking if you agreed with her on issues of atheism so much as I was asking if you could see yourself becoming a follower of Christ one day or if you’ve completely ruled it out?

Well on the issue of whether I’ll ever believe in god is one thing but on being a follower of Christ is one thing I can say (with relative certainty I mean you never do know) is that I won’t be because I find the actual teachings of the bible as bad. People often say that atheists think the bible is just a bunch of good stories but I don’t think they are good and to me(this is where I might anger some people on here) and I don’t think that worshiping someone for all of my existence simply because he made me(for the purpose of worshiping him for all my existence).