Convincing a 99% atheist

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Helpful_Atheist said:
Well the issue of complexity isn’t one that bothers me much, seeing how life can evolve from something simpler to more complex forms while amazing doesn’t seem to me as anything that couldn’t have happened unnaturally.(and while we can’t see the wind we can measure it)
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I suppose that’s if you buy the Darwinist evolution theory.

I do not, but will not argue further. Good luck, one and all.
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
I suppose that’s if you buy the Darwinist evolution theory.

I do not, but will not argue further. Good luck, one and all.
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Well if by “buy the Darwinist evolution theory” you mean agree with the majority of the scientific community on the the scientific theory of evolution then yes I do.
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Well if by “buy the Darwinist evolution theory” you mean agree with the majority of the scientific community on the the scientific theory of evolution then yes I do.
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I actually believe in evolution myself. Intelligent design.
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Well on the issue of whether I’ll ever believe in god is one thing but on being a follower of Christ is one thing I can say (with relative certainty I mean you never do know) is that I won’t be because I find the actual teachings of the bible as bad. People often say that atheists think the bible is just a bunch of good stories but I don’t think they are good and to me(this is where I might anger some people on here) and I don’t think that worshiping someone for all of my existence simply because he made me(for the purpose of worshiping him for all my existence).
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Your beliefs don’t anger me, their your beliefs and you have free will. What bible teachings do you believe is bad? I guess I’d be looking at New Teatament quotes since you specifically mentioned Christ.
 
ptisme said:
Your beliefs don’t anger me, their your beliefs and you have free will. What bible teachings do you believe is bad? I guess I’d be looking at New Teatament quotes since you specifically mentioned Christ.
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Well just a few things are the bible’s stances on issues such as homosexuality and stories that the bible passes off as good or innocent like Noah’s ark or the book of Job.
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Do you mean evolution and intelligent design or are you saying intelligent design is evolution?
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Evolution is a scientific fact. We have the actual bones of “Lucy” the Australopithecus afarensis (yes I did remember something from Anthropology;). We are still evolving as a species(thus the need for wisdom tooth extraction). There is nothing on the bible that says evolution didn’t take place. In fact the Big Bang and order of creation fit nicely with Genesis. I believe it all took place exactly how scientists say with Gods guidance
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Well just a few things are the bible’s stances on issues such as homosexuality and stories that the bible passes off as good or innocent like Noah’s ark or the book of Job.
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OK well that’s the Old Testament but… Let’s pick Job for instance. What don’t you like there?
 
ptisme said:
Evolution is a scientific fact. We have the actual bones of “Lucy” the Australopithecus afarensis (yes I did remember something from Anthropology;). We are still evolving as a species(thus the need for wisdom tooth extraction). There is nothing on the bible that says evolution didn’t take place. In fact the Big Bang and order of creation fit nicely with Genesis. I believe it all took place exactly how scientists say with Gods guidance
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Ok good, although the Big Bang and creation in Genesis don’t fit quite as well as people say. For one the earth was not created before the rest of the universe or even light itself
 
ptisme said:
OK well that’s the Old Testament but… Let’s pick Job for instance. What don’t you like there?
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Well for one God reprimands Job for questioning why he does things but he was right to, I mean God was only picking on him because he had a bet with the devil. Plus he allows all of Jobs kids to be killed and then just replaces them with “better” kids at the end of the story as though he did Job a big favor, not to mention all of the servants that died as well.
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Ok good, although the Big Bang and creation in Genesis don’t fit quite as well as people say. For one the earth was not created before the rest of the universe or even light itself
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I’m not following. Show me the quote in Genesis and how it differs from the order scientist believe happened. Hey I’ve got a small window of opportunity to get a workout in here. I’ll come back on later today and we can continue this. This is good
 
ptisme said:
I’m not following. Show me the quote in Genesis and how it differs from the order scientist believe happened. Hey I’ve got a small window of opportunity to get a workout in here. I’ll come back on later today and we can continue this. This is good
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Well in Genesis god creates the earth first and then light and then stars and other planets. This is not how the world was created, earth wasn’t even around when the universe was created let alone before everything else.

(By the way this is the exact wording of Genesis: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.)
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Well in Genesis god creates the earth first and then light and then stars and other planets. This is not how the world was created, earth wasn’t even around when the universe was created let alone before everything else.

(By the way this is the exact wording of Genesis: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.)
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Okay. I’ll answer this later today. If you could also please give me the reason why you have a problem with the book of Job so I can answer that as well. Thanks PT
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Well for one God reprimands Job for questioning why he does things but he was right to, I mean God was only picking on him because he had a bet with the devil. Plus he allows all of Jobs kids to be killed and then just replaces them with “better” kids at the end of the story as though he did Job a big favor, not to mention all of the servants that died as well.
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I actually said why I didn’t like Job up there, enjoy your workout
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Well for one God reprimands Job for questioning why he does things but he was right to, I mean God was only picking on him because he had a bet with the devil. Plus he allows all of Jobs kids to be killed and then just replaces them with “better” kids at the end of the story as though he did Job a big favor, not to mention all of the servants that died as well.
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Hmm, OK. Here’s how Christians look at that: Job is the rare combination of a wealthy man AND a Holy man… So Satan makes the accusation that the only reason he has faith is because of everything God does for him.

So God allows Satan to test Job but no matter what happens Job never loses his faith. Job’s example tells Christians many things:
  1. This is a broken world. Satan loves suffering because he uses it try to weaken our faith in God.
  2. Job gives us an example that no matter what happens down here that if we hold fast to God we will reap the rewards. God probably didn’t care so much what Satan thought, but in His wisdom, God knew Job would remain faithful and that his story would inspire millions of faithful Christians to persevere in their trials throughout the ages.
  3. God will indeed test us to reveal our faith and refine us, but He will never tempt us to go into sin. Satan will tempt you to sin in order to make you fall; God tests us to make us stand firmer and reveal our faith.
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Well for one God reprimands Job for questioning why he does things but he was right to, I mean God was only picking on him because he had a bet with the devil. P**lus he allows all of Jobs kids to be killed and then just replaces them with “better” kids at the end of the story as though he did Job a big favor, **not to mention all of the servants that died as well.
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I don’t recall the story suggesting the children were replaced with “better” kids. He doubled all of Jobs wealth but gave him the same number of children. That is because Job didn’t lose his children as they will be with him in heaven.

Besides showing us how to suffer there are a couple more lessons to take from Job:
  1. Our rewards/punishment for our behavior here on earth do not come to us while we are here but rather after.
  2. Before Job, People thought suffering was the result of some sin we committed.
 
Helpful_Atheist said:
Well in Genesis god creates the earth first and then light and then stars and other planets. **This is not how the world was created, **earth wasn’t even around when the universe was created let alone before everything else.

(By the way this is the exact wording of Genesis: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.)
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I love your choice of words there:thumbsup:
There are many articles that show that what we know from science matches Genesis very close: Here’s one
huffingtonpost.com/david-l-wolper/genesis-and-science_b_500201.html

Furthermore, Entropy (the most basic law of science according to Einstein) was not followed when the universe was created. Entropy is the law that suggests EVERYTHING in the universe goes from order to disorder. I suggest the fact that the creation of the universe went in the reverse direction was by the hand of God.
 
ptisme said:
I don’t recall the story suggesting the children were replaced with “better” kids. He doubled all of Jobs wealth but gave him the same number of children. That is because Job didn’t lose his children as they will be with him in heaven.

Besides showing us how to suffer there are a couple more lessons to take from Job:
  1. Our rewards/punishment for our behavior here on earth do not come to us while we are here but rather after.
  2. Before Job, People thought suffering was the result of some sin we committed.
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These are certainly interesting opinions on what happened to Job but I still think killing a bunch of people is bad but I can see how Christians would view the story as good.
 
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