Could a Catholic bake a cake for a gay wedding?

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I served 3 combat tours with the Marines, in the infantry, last serving in Fallujah, clearing it in Nov 2004.

I went through SERE school and was taught what I posted above about “defective work” and why it’s necessary.

It’s not flippant to apply these lessons to new forms of forced labor.

We should draw on all of our life’s experiences in order to live out our faith fully completely and helpfully to others.

I get your point, but I find the SERE/pow training I received in the Marines relevant in this case.
 
Aside from my issue with the comparison, I take issue with calling it forced labor. Is an office worker “forced” to wear business casual? Are fast food workers “forced” to make hamburgers? It’s part of the contract, and they are free to choose another job if they don’t like it. In a situation where workers are free and people have so many different interpretations of what is moral, I can’t rationalize malicious compliance or deliberate sabotage. Should a vegetarian fast food worker leave the meat out to spoil so they can can feel morally right in only serving grilled cheese? Should an tailor who doesn’t approve of war feel morally justified in ruining uniforms? Or should they find some other work?
 
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If someone forces me (under penalty of law (jail time, 125K penalty…try that on your “grilled cheese example”)) to use my artistic talents to support an expression I don’t support, I can easily rationalize an extra 1/4 cup of baking soda. Any day.

Especially when the baker was targeted.
 
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by the way…forced labor doesn’t then apply, using your logic, to the soldier/Marine in captivity…he’s still getting paid.
 
1ke said:
Don’t try to obscure the point that you are conflating two things— this which may be invalid and things that are per se invalid.
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I already stated, in my example, the things are invalid. I see no difference between making a cake for one invalid wedding or another.
 
Sinful and grave matter, you no now what I meant, particularly after I clarified it.

A man/woman couple coming to a baker is for a wedding cake — cannot know simply based on the couple presenting themselves if the proposed wedding is valid or invalid.

A man/man or woman/woman couple coming to a baker for a wedding cake — can know the nature of the attempt at marriage simply by the couple presenting themselves, invalid.
 
My point is that nobody forces a person outside of jail or the military to perform work. The trouble comes when we advertise a service to the entire public then choose to discriminate when people ask for what was advertised. If they wanted to enjoy the benefits of a private club, they should have set themselves up that way.
 
A consultant is free to choose which projects he wants to take on…“sorry outside of my interests, portfolio, current path, too busy, don’t want to take jobs on the west coast.”. Any number of reasons.

Happens all the time.
 
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The baker cannot know the couple is attempting marriage invalidly just by a male/female couple asking to engage services. Because male/female
marriages are not per se invalid (you would have to have additional information to which you are not privy to make such a deduction) while a same sex attempt at marriage is per se invalid.
 
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Not the same. Divorced couples, using birth control, these don’t present the degree of scandal to marriage. The scandal SS couples present is not just situational or behavioral, it’s made visible by their very bodies. You can’t compare couples although flawed that present marriage as it is naturally ordered, with couples that present marriage visibly unatural and disordered
 
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1ke said:
A man/woman couple coming to a baker is for a wedding cake — cannot know simply based on the couple presenting themselves if the proposed wedding is valid or invalid.
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And I hope you know what I meant. In the example, the baker _did_know the heterosexual couple presenting themselves was attempting an invalid marriage.

This conversation is not progressing, I am bowing out. I explained my stance. I would happily bake a cake for a gay couple.
 
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No I did not know that is what you meant.

Fortunately Catholic morality regarding our own actions isn’t based on the morality of another’s act alone but on the fonts of morality and the principles
related to cooperation with evil.
 
I also have yet to see any couple who is outside of a same-sex relationship try and force a bakery to bake a cake.

Screams “MY RELATIOSHIP IS INSECURE” to say the least.
 
Frankly LOL, I think any person who has issue with gay couples should have the manners and decency to keep their opinions to themselves. Catholics are called to love their neighbour and to walk with him. NOT to pass judgement in God’s place.

The MOST a catholic should be doing is talking to the person in a friendly way, understanding we all have our own struggles and challenges, and saying a prayer for them, NOT refusing to bake the goods on the grounds it’s for a celebration they don’t agree with. IMO, that would be very ignorant and it would only serve to further alienate catholics from gay people, when in fact gay people also need spiritual guidance and may benefit from having a friend in the church.

Jesus kept company with tax collectors, didn’t he? He kept company with the poor, the sick, the lame, with children. A catholic will NOT generally get a good response by preaching, by being ignorant, insensitive or hard hearted. The best way to bring people close to God is surely to just be their friend and offer genuine support. That way if they do become ready to join the church, you will be there to help guide them.

Catholics should be making friends with gay, transgender and transsexual people, and they should be trying to support women who have had abortions because how else are those people ever going to let go of common preconceptions that they are hated because of something they feel or something they do? How else is the holy spirit supposed to reach them?

I’m surprised that so many people think it’s sinful to bake a cake for a gay wedding. This is ENTIRELY the opposite attitude to what I’m being taught in the catholic church right now. That’s discrimination on the grounds of sexuality. I’ve been told that the church does not consider our sexual persuasion to be our identity. How then can it be right to refuse to provide services on the grounds of sexuality?
 
The assertion that “we need to keep our opinions to ourself”…is a violation of my religious freedom…and my right to speech.

More over, it’s a lack of charity.

We should be eager to help people come closer to the truth, to God.

It’s a grave responsibility of Catholics to save all souls.

You basically want people to draw up walls around themselves.

Pope Francis wouldn’t approve.

Like a border wall
 
Hello, allow me to explain my views.

I have a sister. A lot of her friends were LGBT, and for a time she thought she was also a lesbian.
When I was in high school, specifically during 11th and 12th grade, many, perhaps most of my friends at school, were lgbt.
I have nothing against them.

If I owned a bakery and a gay man wanted some cake, I’ll give him some cake.
It’s not about the sexuality. It’s about the wedding. Marriage is something sacred, it is even a Sacrament.
You’re not supposed to support heretics, ie give them money.
If I were to cater a “gay wedding”, I would be providing my time and contents, my services, as my capital, to it, it is like supporting it, and I don’t want any sort of that.
 
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