Could Muhammad of been a prophet?

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Judas_Thaddeus said:
. . . ? :confused:
HUH?!

That cannot make any sense in any way. God alone is timeless. God alone is eternal.
Anything that is created is NOT eternal, NOT timeless, for that having been CREATED
exists AFTER its ETERNAL/TIMELESS Creator.

Now Jesus is eternal, mind you, as indicated in John 1:1, where in the Beginning,
the Word (later identified as Jesus) WAS, which in the Greek is a continual verb,
meaning that however far back you wish to push the Beginning, the Word had al-
ready existed. So Jesus existed before time, before creation, with God, AND the
Jesus the Word was God (or was Deity in nature, as better expressed in Greek).

All things were created by the Word (Jesus) and without him, nothing came to be
that has come to be, still talking about the Word, which if you read the Gospel of
John, is later called Jesus.

This is why we have the Bible, so we don’t run into these confusing issues.
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Nope, your thoughts are perfectly aligned to earthly thoughts and an inability to comprehend anything that is or is not timeless. We are finite beings, defining infinites is not within our comprehension.

When did a definition for timelessness become officially a Catholic only definition?
 
Also, what makes you think that when Jesus said that He existed before Abraham that it was not the Words of the FATHER, rather than Jesus?

.
 
One more question:

Was John 1 the words of Jesus or the thoughts of the Gospel writer?
 
Servant19 said:
Nope, your thoughts are perfectly aligned to earthly thoughts and an inability to comprehend anything that is or is not timeless. We are finite beings, defining infinites is not within our comprehension.

When did a definition for timelessness become officially a Catholic only definition?
Click to expand...
The definition of Timeless(ness) is Without Time. If something HAPPENS, that
requires time. What you are suggesting now is that the gap between a created
thing and its Creator isn’t really that big. You strip away the meaning of infinity,
eternity, even Divinity if we keep going.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
Great, you recognize that 4:171 described Jesus as being a Messenger of God.
The some of the Bible verses I gave did say something similar, but we were not
talking quite about the samething, but forget that now, and let’s move on to the
biblical references to Jesus, though not being the Father, is the same God:
http://bibleprobe.com/jesus-is-God.htm
​
When surahs were brought up, we were
talking about how the Qur’an contradicts
the Bible. When the Biblical verses were
brought up, we were then talking about
how the Bible described the Trinity. I
hope we are on the same page now.
​
So you read how Jesus came to testify of the Father, that he
does what his Father who sent him wills, now hopefully if you
went to that link, you see how though being different persons,
Jesus and the Father are the same God.

Do you understand how 4:171 contradicts the true nature of Jesus now?

Let’s continue on to Qur’an 5:73…Ask any Muslim what it’s talking about and they will tell you
the same thing. It is urging people to deny the Triune Nature
of the One God. How did you miss that? Go back to when I
first gave those Quranic verses and you willl be reminded of
why I brought them up in the first place.
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…no dear friend, let’s not forget that, let’s focus on the Scripture and maybe, just MAYBE we can have less division, animosity and love in the world because we are all UNITED by Truth…

…it’s CRITICAL…
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
rephrase so i understand the question
Click to expand...
If I am the PERFECT Messenger, then no one would be able to tell the difference between me and my Master, unless I tell them of the Master.

The people can’t see the Master or talk to Him, they only have me, His Messenger, but to all intents and purposes, to the people I am talking to, the Master and the Messenger are ONE.

This description fits perfectly with Biblical teachings
 
Servant19 said:
One more question:

Was John 1 the words of Jesus or the thoughts of the Gospel writer?
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What writers would do is set the stage for the rest of the book being written. Basically, while reading John, one must always have John 1 in mind and base their interpretation on the words of John 1.

Remember, the Holy Spirit was given to John to lead others to truth; therefore, his words in John 1 are truth.
 
Servant19 said:
One more question:

Was John 1 the words of Jesus or the thoughts of the Gospel writer?
Click to expand...
Following the train of thought from which that question arises, I
can naturally assume that you don’t believe the Holy Spirit was
behind anything in the Bible.

Jesus did not write the Gospel of John, it was the writings of John himself,
who KNEW Jesus, who was taught by him, who was inspired to compose
his Gospel, and of course it was the Holy Spirit that was doing the inspir–
ing, and finally it was the Holy Spirit who inspired its inclusion to the Bible.

This is the problem with post-Christian religions. They all tell us to diminish
our trust on the Bible, tell us that the Bible cannot be relied upon, “Well it’s
not like Jesus wrote it…”, junk like that, but do people see Christians doing
the same thing with the Old Testament?
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
The definition of Timeless(ness) is Without Time. If something HAPPENS, that
requires time. What you are suggesting now is that the gap between a created
thing and its Creator isn’t really that big. You strip away the meaning of infinity,
eternity, even Divinity if we keep going.
Click to expand...
Ok it seems we may derail with this discussion about time…if you wish we can go much deeper, and I’m happy to go there, but for simplicity of philosophy let’s stick to the Messenger/Master analogy…it fits perfectly to all Biblical verses, don’t you think?
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
Following the train of thought from which that question arises, I
can naturally assume that you don’t believe the Holy Spirit was
behind anything in the Bible.

Jesus did not write the Gospel of John, it was the writings of John himself,
who KNEW Jesus, who was taught by him, who was inspired to compose
his Gospel, and of course it was the Holy Spirit that was doing the inspir–
ing, and finally it was the Holy Spirit who inspired its inclusion to the Bible.

This is the problem with post-Christian religions. They all tell us to diminish
our trust on the Bible, tell us that the Bible cannot be relied upon, “Well it’s
not like Jesus wrote it…”, junk like that, but do people see Christians doing
the same thing with the Old Testament?
Click to expand...
If it was the true Words of Jesus, there would be no need to quote Jesus at all in the Gospels.

It would start with “This is Jesus speaking…”

The actual words of Jesus are quoted, nevertheless I see the whole of John as valid Scripture, sharing spiritual Truths
 
Servant19 said:
…no dear friend, let’s not forget that, let’s focus on the Scripture and maybe, just MAYBE we can have less division, animosity and love in the world because we are all UNITED by Truth…

…it’s CRITICAL…
Click to expand...
I didn’t intend to skip anything, bad wording, I meant only to clear
confusion up because we were getting mixed up, focus now.
 
Servant19 said:
If I am the PERFECT Messenger, then no one would be able to tell the difference between me and my Master, unless I tell them of the Master.

The people can’t see the Master or talk to Him, they only have me, His Messenger, but to all intents and purposes, to the people I am talking to, the Master and the Messenger are ONE.

This description fits perfectly with Biblical teachings
Click to expand...
Not exactly when the Bible teaches that Jesus is God. Aside from that difference,
you’re right, because Jesus is revealing the Father, but when he says that he and
the Father are One, he means just that, they are both One God.
 
Servant19 said:
If it was the true Words of Jesus, there would be no need to quote Jesus at all in the Gospels.

It would start with “This is Jesus speaking…”

The actual words of Jesus are quoted, nevertheless I see the whole of John as valid Scripture, sharing spiritual Truths
Click to expand...
It wasn’t Jesus’ job to write anything, that was the job of the Apostles.
And of course you see the whole of John as valid Scripture,
“so long as it’s translated correctly” as the Mormons would say.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
It wasn’t Jesus’ job to write anything, that was the job of the Apostles.
And of course you see the whole of John as valid Scripture,
“so long as it’s translated correctly” as the Mormons would say.
Click to expand...
It was Jesus’s job to SAY everything, and if He was God, He would’ve said it, AND He would’ve been quoted

.
 
Servant19 said:
Where does it say this Judas???

By what justification?
Patripassionism is a heresy…
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Revelation 1:17-18 if you’re looking for a declaration directly from Jesus’s mouth. Or the end of John if you want Thomas’s declaration. Besides that, Baptism in the full nature of God.

There’s so much…
 
dronald said:
Revelation 1:17-18 if you’re looking for a declaration directly from Jesus’s mouth. Or the end of John if you want Thomas’s declaration. Besides that, Baptism in the full nature of God.

There’s so much…
Click to expand...
Baptism is in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I would give up my life for all of those things, but nowhere does it say that Jesus is God
 
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