Could The Blessed Virgin have lived a sinless life?

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I’m no.4. If in fact Mary was redeemed from Original Sin at the point of conception, then she must have had a sin nature. I believe, therefore, that she had the ability to sin and must have, by logic(?), broken the law at some point.
 
Of course She could. The reason was given by the Archangel Gabriel as He said to her "With God nothing is impossible…"
 
Dear Church Militant,
The Pleasure is mine as well.

I have certain cynical attitudes on this subject that I have not been able to shake off. It seems to me that Mary satisfies a deep longing in Catholics. That deep longing is for a human role model. As you [post=479591]said yourself[/post]: “I find the concept that the Blessed Virgin did indeed lead a sinless life by the grace of God greatly encouraging and inspirational…”

The cynical part is that I suspect that Catholics use ideas such as Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant to justify Mary’s elevation as an untainted, pure, and holy object to adored. It does me no pleasure to confess my cynical attitudes to you. I do not wish to question your or any other Catholic’s motives, but I feel I must be honest with you because you deserve no less.

This causes even more concern for me because I firmly believe that it is Jesus himself that we should all be looking towards for courage and inspiration as a sinless human role model. The Athanasian Creed calls Jesus “perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.”

These ideas of Mary’s need to be immaculate because she is the very Mother of God only tend to cloud Jesus very humanity in the eyes of Catholics - in my [hopefully] humble judgement.

My favorite bible verse is John 5:27. “And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.”

It gives me comfort to know my judge has walked the earth and has experienced the power of temptation, though he never succumb to temptation himself. Jesus also experienced great cruelty at the hands of some of my fellow human beings. Even while in the process of being savagely murdered, the judge of all pleads: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

Peace be with you.
 
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mj330:
I’m no.4. If in fact Mary was redeemed from Original Sin at the point of conception, then she must have had a sin nature. I believe, therefore, that she had the ability to sin and must have, by logic(?), broken the law at some point.
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That statement is very true. She did have a sinfull nature, but she was sanctified at conception. What that means is that when she was concieved God gave her the grace of baptism. If John the baptist can be sanctified in the womb, what is so unbelievable about the mother of God being sanctified at conception?

We believe that Mary followed God in all laws when she knew what she was doing. You can’t sin without knowing what you do is wrong. She never rejected the commandments of God in any way by sinning.

This does not mean that she could not have sinned. What it means is she chose to do Gods will always. This was done with the aid of the grace of God.
 
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jimmy:
We believe that Mary followed God in all laws when she knew what she was doing. You can’t sin without knowing what you do is wrong. She never rejected the commandments of God in any way by sinning.
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Jimmy, sin is the transgression of the law of God, therefore, even if the person is ignorant of the law, they still can involuntarily sin. Good day.
 
Angainor, mj330, and all other skeptics.
Thank you very much for your honest comments.

Please understand that I am not maintaining that Mary was perfect in the divine sense as Jesus was. I am saying that she is the first and best example of a Christian living a sinless life by the grace of God, and that this makes sense because that is precisely what we have been commanded to live by Our Lord Himself. She has no comparison to the Son of God, since her life was exemplary due to the work of Our Lord.

Why is this so theologically threatening? If we are called to a sinless life and holiness (and we all agree that we are) then this implicit concept from scripture is no more than a miracle of grace. The same miracle that we are called to and that we get a taste of for short periods of time when we are indeed able to live that life. perhaps all i’m saying that the Blessed virgin lived that life for a much greater duration than I have so far to date, as so set a good example of what I am called to and what I aspire to.

This takes absolutely nothing away from Christ in any way since it is sourced in Him and is a source of praise and glory to God from whom all the graces flow.
Pax vobiscum,
 
Think of a big puddle of muddy water.
Now invisage a person walking towards it not seeing it.
There are two ways you can take action to save that person.
  1. Help them and lift the person out quickly if they fall in.
  2. Prevent the person from falling in by some action.
Both have the effect of being a saviour in that particular circumstance.

Now apply the same to sin. Both options are still appliciable.
That is why Mary refers to God as her Saviour in the Magnificat. He simply applied option no. 2 in her circumstance.
 
Mary is not sinless by necessity, for God can do all things and does not need any of us to accomplish His divine will. Rather, Mary is sinless because of her office, namely being the mother of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

The Office of Readings (Matins) for the Memorial of the Blessed Virgin on Saturday has two passages from the Church fathers that address this point. St. John Chrysostom says Mary is sinless because Christ defeated the devil by using the same means:

Christ conquered the devil using the same means and the same weapons that the devil used to win… The symbols of our fall were a virgin, a tree and death. The Virgin was Eve (for she had not yet known man); then there was the tree; and death was Adam’s penalty… These three tokens of our destruction, the virgin, the tree and death, became the tokens of our victory. Instead of Eve there was Mary; instead of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the wood of the cross; instead of Adam’s death, the death of Christ.

God used these tokens to humble the devil, knowing the devil would think he outsmarted God and therefore is more wise and powerful. Which is a reason not only for Mary’s perpetual virginity, but also for her perpetual sinlessness, since Eve was also sinless and a virgin at the time of the fall.

Blessed Guerric of Igny says unlike Eve, Mary fulfilled her vocation:

The first Eve is not so much a mother as a stepmother, since she handed on to her children an inheritance of certain death rather than the beginning of light. She is indeed called the mother of all the living, but she is more truly the destroyer of the living or the mother of the dead, since the only fruit of ther child-bearing was death. And as Eve was incapable of fulfilling the vocation of her title, Mary consummated the mystery. She herself, like the Church of which she is the type, is a mother of all who are reborn to life. She is in fact the mother of the life by which everyone lives, and when she brought it forth from herself she in some way brought to rebirth all those who were to live by that life. (emphasis mine)

Mary lived a sinless life on earth because of her unique vocation, namely that being the mother of God.

May I use some of this for my online chat room dicussions with our protestant brothers and sisters who continue to “bash” our Blessed Mother? This information is great.
 
I believe that Mary did not sin because she was filled with God’s grace. She committed herself fully to God, therefore even the thought of sinning against Him was abhorrent to her. This does not mean that she could not sin (which I believe is the interpretation most non-Catholic Christians have and object to) but rather that with God’s help she refused to sin.

With the help of God’s grace, we all pray to not sin again (part of the Act of Contrition). That is part of our repentace, to endeavour to not sin again. Do we fail? Almost certainly (especially in my case!). But why do we fail? Because instead of embracing the grace God gives us, as He gave Mary, we allow our own needs to come between us and God. We all fall short, where Mary was able (only with God’s help) to remain pure to the end of her days
 
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teresas1979:
We all fall short, where Mary was able (only with God’s help) to remain pure to the end of her days
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Hello (I voted for no.4); how does the verse “For all have sinned and falled short of the Glory of God.” apply to Mary? I guess you would interpret this in light of Original Sin. Please explain. Thanks.
 
posted by mj330
Hello (I voted for no.4); how does the verse “For all have sinned and falled short of the Glory of God.” apply to Mary? I guess you would interpret this in light of Original Sin. Please explain. Thanks
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👋
Have you read the tract from CA? You can find the whole thing here. catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
Paul’s comment seems to have one of two meanings. It might be that it refers not to absolutely everyone, but just to the mass of mankind (which means young children and other special cases, like Jesus and Mary, would be excluded without having to be singled out).
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God Bless,
Maria
 
I have nothing to add, all those who agreed that she lead a sinless life have said it all so beautifully!
 
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teresas1979:
I believe that Mary did not sin because she was filled with God’s grace. She committed herself fully to God, therefore even the thought of sinning against Him was abhorrent to her. This does not mean that she could not sin (which I believe is the interpretation most non-Catholic Christians have and object to) but rather that with God’s help she refused to sin.

With the help of God’s grace, we all pray to not sin again (part of the Act of Contrition). That is part of our repentace, to endeavour to not sin again. Do we fail? Almost certainly (especially in my case!). But why do we fail? Because instead of embracing the grace God gives us, as He gave Mary, we allow our own needs to come between us and God. We all fall short, where Mary was able (only with God’s help) to remain pure to the end of her days
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Very well said teresas1979. this is pretty much what I was trying to say in my initial post.
 
The common teaching in Catholic Tradition is that Mary not only didn’t sin, but was impeccable, incapable of sin. This is also true, in a different way, of Christ and of course of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. It is also true, again in different way, of the angels in Heaven and of all the saints in Heaven. This doesn’t make God or Christ or the angels and saints in Heaven and Mary less free, but rather more free.

Was the Blessed Virgin free from stain because she did not offend God, or because she was impeccable and incapable of sin? The latter is common teaching in Catholic Tradition, while distinguishing it from the impeccability enjoyed by Christ. His may be called absolute and derived from the union of his human nature with the divinity. He could not sin because he was God, and God is infinitely holy. Mary could not sin by reason of an inherent quality, which some place midway between the state of souls in the beatific vision and that of our first parents before the fall.

Concretely this quality may be identified with perseverance in grace as regards grave sin, and confirmation in grace for lesser sins. In either case, however, her incapacity for sin differed radically from that of Christ. Where his was based on the fact that he is a divine person, hers was an added prerogative. It was absolutely necessary that he could not sin, since God is sinless. It was a free gift of God’s mercy that Mary could not sin, but only because she was protected by divine favor. (pp. 159-160 of The Catholic Catechism by Fr. John A Hardon, SJ)
 
Cool…a real Jesuit offers a clear statement. Good old Father Hardon!
 
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Angainor:
My answer is a mixture.

Yes, she could have lived a sinless life (any of us could).

No, she didn’t live a sinless life, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. - Romans 3:23

Yes, of course it matters that Mary has fallen short, each of us matter in the eyes of God.

No, it does not matter to God’s plan for salvation that Mary fell short. Jesus remained sinless.
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Your premise is all wrong, Mary does not fall short of the glory of God.

Mary was granted special favors and graces long before her actual conception. God planned Mary to be the most perfect creation of all, that is why she was made and chosen to be the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. God would not choose or created someone who is imperfect for His Spouse.

She was endowed to the greatest extent possible with great wisdom, faith, hope and chaity even before she was born. She is the perfect woman designed to give birth the most perfect God-made-man.

Her command to the host of holy angels assigned to her was to prevent and guide her from ever sinning or even thinking about sinning. As a true human she could have chosen disobedience but with the graces and favors granted by the Almighty long before her birth she did not.

wc
 
Mary was saved by Jesus from sin by not recieving original sin at conception. We are saved after we sin. Even she needed a saviour, However without the sin nature and with grace she was able not to sin.
 
someone wrote
"It makes no sense whatever for God to command us to do the impossible when the Word of God clearly says that “with God all things are possible”.

Yes and God made all things possible by faith.

Scripture specifically says no one can become rightious by obeying the law.
so if the augument anyone makes on this subject is this
Mary didnt sin by obeying the law totally
she still wasnt rightious.

and those who arent rightious must be able to sin in some way.
isnt that true?
 
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. - Romans 3:23

the word of God cannot be borken
ALL includes Mary unless ofcourse she wasnt part of the human race in which case christ wasnty fully human!!!
 
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