Could The Mormon Church Be The "true Church" Of Christ

[alanjeddy]

. COULD THE MORMON CHURCH BE THE “TRUE CHURCH” OF CHRIST? . The LDS do not believe that Joseph Smith founded a new religious group as did other men and women in Protestantism. They claim their church to be the only true church on earth and refer to it as the “restored” church of Jesus Christ. . Soon after the death of the last Apostle, John, the true church Jesus founded in Palestine is supposed to have fallen away from His doctrines, the members having apostasized. The gods took it off this earth. Some 1,500 years later it was restored here through Smith. Joseph, then, is not the founder of Mormonism, but only an instrument used by the gods to reinstate the church once more among mankind. LDS refer to this falling away of the members of the original church as the “Great or Total Apostasy.” . Naturally the LDS authorities went to the Christian Bible in an attempt to prove their theory. Here are the texts they have chosen: Matthew 24: 4-5
“Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ: and shall deceive MANY.” II Thessalonians 2:3
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.” (This text has absolutely nothing to do with apostasy a la LDS which supposedly took place centuries ago. Here Paul writes of the second coming of Christ at the end time, something that has not occurred as yet.) I Tim. 1 19
“Holding faith, and a good conscience; which SOME having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck.” II Peter 2: 1-3
“But there were false prophets among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their perncious ways.” II Peter 3:6
“…in which are some things hard to be understood, which they THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE wrest as they do also the other scriptures unto their own destruction.”
. Now it does not take a great deal of perception to see that these texts refer to persons, individual members of the Church who will, for one reason or another, leave Christ’s Church. In no way do they even hint of the total collapse of the Church itself, the organization, and its disappearance from this earth. The organization is one thing; the people who join it another. . There were apostasies from Christ during His own life time. A well-known incident of this occurred right after His teaching on the Eucharist. John 6: 66 tells us what happened: “From that time many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him.”
Then there was the apostasy of Judas. Did all this spell the end of Christ and the remainder of His little band of followers? By no means. . Thus the texts quoted by the LDS simply refer to one fact: there were already members falling away from Christ during His own life time and that of the Apostles. Knowing human nature He predicted that scandals among His followers would come, indeed had to come! (Matthew 18:8) There was then no “Total Apostasy.” There could not have been as the Bible so clearly points out in our answer to the next question as to what Jesus had to say about the durability of His Church.

Also when Christ built His church on Peter he is promised primacy over the whole church, a primacy which Jesus will confer on him after His resurrection, as we learn in the Gospel of St John 21:15-18. This supreme authority is given to Peter for the benefit of the church. Because the church has to last until the end of time. Jesus does this through apostolic succession. Christ would never build His church knowing that it would die with the death of the last original apostle. He would never build His church in a cult that is so far removed from even Protestant Christian orthodoxy. Heaven help us.

 

[truthsilence]

Dang, we can’t win with you guys.

Either we are mind numbed robots who believe everything our leaders tell us to believe, or else we none of us believe the same things anybody else does.

which is it?

the thing is, Rebecca, You CAN NOT accuse ALL MORMONS of teaching something that is not on lds.org. We can and do think for ourselves, and some of us are, well…wrong. As well, speculation is, I’m afraid, an official sport of sorts, among most religions, ours definitely included.

So.

If it is on lds.org, then you can tell us that ‘the church teaches.’ if it isn’t, then it doesn’t.

Seems pretty simple, doesn’t it?

Yes, it should be simple. Nothing about Mormonism is simple however. It is a confusing and conflicting mess of strange doctrines. And tell me, do you only hear what is posted on LDS.org in your church meetings? ‘Church’ itself should be a place where you learn what "the church teaches’, should it not?

 

[truthsilence]

Diana, just for instance:

You and mfbukowski both agreed that Jesus is God and that there was never a time when He was not. But don’t you also agree that Jesus’ ‘spirit body’ was created by Heavenly Father, the same as the rest of us? Do you not see any contradiction or confusion there?

 

[RebeccaJ]

If it is on lds.org, then you can tell us that ‘the church teaches.’ if it isn’t, then it doesn’t.

Seems pretty simple, doesn’t it?

Diana, you know this is a lie!

Your church has taught several things that are not at your lds website today. Things that Mormons believe.

• God the Father had sex with Mary, taught by your church until c.1970. There are mormons who still believe this. This teaching is not at your lds website.
• Humans who become gods will rule over their own worlds. Also taught by your church. There are mormons who still believe this. This teaching is not at your lds website.
• God the Father is subject and worshiped a god who is above him. Taught by your church. There are mormons who still believe this. This teaching is not at your lds website.

How many more examples do you want???

Read Smith’s King Follet sermon, and tell me how many Mormons believe what that sermon says, and how many don’t. And tell me how many years what is in that sermon was taught by your church to its members.

---

On the flip side:

Ask bukowski about chapter 47 of the Gospel Principles manual. He doesn’t believe it. Your church teaches it. It is at your lds website.

I’ll leave it up to you as to how Mormons reconcile this with themselves.

I see that the teachings of your church that are the farthest removed from Christianity have been removed from the lds website.

 

[wilsonpd]

Check this thread out.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=307220

First of all MEgus I want to say thank you for being so patient and generous with your time. It can’t be easy to keep coming back to defend your faith over and over to people who are constantly trying to prove you wrong. I read that thread and I think I understand most of it. It does seem to me that LDS believe that they will be gods of some dominion (planet, universe, etc) according to the thread I just read. Is that right? Is Doctrines of Salvation a work that is accepted by the church? If so, I read a quote by Joseph Fielding Smith from that (Vol. 2 pg 48) that says, “The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the pwers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit childeren who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of exoeriences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fulness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdicition over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.”

If this book is accepted by the church, it says pretty much what I said in my first post on this thread which was denied by dianaiad as completely false, with the exception that man gods can have more than one wife. I have not been able to find that in any church documents yet. I would really like to see dianaiad’s response to this please. And you still have not responded to whom I should ask if I cannot ask the missionaries (whom I adore by the way)

 

[Bill_Pick]

First of all MEgus I want to say thank you for being so patient and generous with your time. It can’t be easy to keep coming back to defend your faith over and over to people who are constantly trying to prove you wrong. I read that thread and I think I understand most of it. It does seem to me that LDS believe that they will be gods of some dominion (planet, universe, etc) according to the thread I just read. Is that right? Is Doctrines of Salvation a work that is accepted by the church? If so, I read a quote by Joseph Fielding Smith from that (Vol. 2 pg 48) that says, “The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the pwers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit childeren who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of exoeriences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fulness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdicition over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.”

If this book is accepted by the church, it says pretty much what I said in my first post on this thread which was denied by dianaiad as completely false, with the exception that man gods can have more than one wife. I have not been able to find that in any church documents yet. I would really like to see dianaiad’s response to this please. And you still have not responded to whom I should ask if I cannot ask the missionaries (whom I adore by the way)

may be you can help with this also Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.) Devil, the The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.) Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) God God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.) “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans…” (D&C 130:22). God, becoming a god After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.) “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them,” (DC 132:20). God, many gods There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3) God, mother goddess There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.) God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.God, Trinity The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated .by the. please take your time i can wait and thank you

 

[MEgus]

MEgus, yes, I am fully aware of Church teaching.

Two things. And I will paraphrase from the article below. Christians are called to become sharers in God’s divinity; God in us and us in God. That divinity does not belong to us by nature; only God has it by nature. But we can share in it according to God’s grace.

catholicexchange.com/2005/02/14/93981/

Big difference between what has been taught throughout Christian history and what Mormonism teaches. Huge. By the way, I studied all of it.

Peace,
Tami

Thanks Tami for the article. I would assume most of those here have never read it by the way they jump all over us for professing the same thing.

Here’s part of the Article for those who will not take the time to read it.

The Real Shocker

The real shocker for many Catholics (and its easy for us to get comfortable and miss it) is the answer as to why God became a man. The immensity of the answer, the immensity of the gift which reveals the depth of God’s love is this: “The Son of God became man so that we might become God.”

Whoa! Did that knock your socks off or what? You mean God is not afraid of us becoming God? Exactly. It was the devil who lied to us and told us God was afraid of such a thing. It was God’s plan all along that we should become “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pt 1:4). In this plan we have to do it His way — which is the way of love (commitment) and not the way of lust and power. “God is love” (1 Jn 4:9) and we can only enter Him and He can only enter us according to His plan of love. Hearing that makes it easier to love God does it not? Hearing of God’s perfect love for us casts out our fears and enables us to give ourselves to God who so obviously loves us and loved us first (1 Jn 4:10).

Inside the Passion of the ChristIs it too good to be true? The quotation (“The Son of God became man so that we might become God”) you just read comes straight from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is a quotation from one of the greatest Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church; the one who saved Christianity from the Arian heresy. The quotation is from Saint Athanasius and can be found in paragraph 460 of the Catechism. It is followed by Saint Thomas Aquinas commenting: “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in His divinity, assumed our nature, so that He, made man, might make men gods.” Nothing is being taken out of context.

 

[mfbukowski]

MEgus, There is only one true apostolic church that traces its roots to Christ Read the above carefully.

And listen to Rebecca and others on this thread who were former mormons, now Catholic and many were in mormon seminaries, they are echoing what I am saying.

Just so you understand the difference. Catholic seminary means you have studied for the priesthood and presumably you know something about your faith.

Mormon “seminary” is a program for high school students to study a little about their faith. I don’t know what it is now called in the Catholic church, but 50 years ago it was called “religious instruction”. We got some time off school and went to a religion class. Most of the kids slept through it.

That is pretty much what seminary is. We hold ours at 6am every morning and the kids come and start their day right before they go to school. They show up sleepy and some get a lot our of it, and others attend irregularly. It’s like any other voluntary class you would hold at 6 am for high school students. You have to be dedicated, and many kids are very dedicated.

But to imply that you are an authority if you have attended Mormon seminary is far far far from accurate. It means you have had a few elementary classes while you were a high school student.

 

[mfbukowski]

DOES YOUR CHURCH REALLY THINK THAT THE CON MAN SMITH WAS A MATYR,WE NEED TO START A NEW THREAD ON THIS

Dude, you’re yelling again. It’s not necessary. The quality of your posts speak for themselves.

 

[MEgus]

Diana, just for instance:

You and mfbukowski both agreed that Jesus is God and that there was never a time when He was not. But don’t you also agree that Jesus’ ‘spirit body’ was created by Heavenly Father, the same as the rest of us? Do you not see any contradiction or confusion there?

There never was a time when we were not as well. No contradiction there.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Dude, you’re yelling again. It’s not necessary. The quality of your posts speak for themselves.

DUdE i have said it 100 i,m not yelling my key board is not working but i,m happy you like my post thank you may be you can help with these. Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.) Devil, the The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.) Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) God God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.) “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans…” (D&C 130:22). God, becoming a god After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.) “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them,” (DC 132:20). God, many gods There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3) God, mother goddess There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.) God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.God, Trinity The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man.” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)

i have some time so take your time,and thanks again for enjoying my post

 

[MEgus]

First of all MEgus I want to say thank you for being so patient and generous with your time. It can’t be easy to keep coming back to defend your faith over and over to people who are constantly trying to prove you wrong. I read that thread and I think I understand most of it. It does seem to me that LDS believe that they will be gods of some dominion (planet, universe, etc) according to the thread I just read. Is that right? Is Doctrines of Salvation a work that is accepted by the church? If so, I read a quote by Joseph Fielding Smith from that (Vol. 2 pg 48) that says, “The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the pwers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit childeren who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of exoeriences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fulness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdicition over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.”

If this book is accepted by the church, it says pretty much what I said in my first post on this thread which was denied by dianaiad as completely false, with the exception that man gods can have more than one wife. I have not been able to find that in any church documents yet. I would really like to see dianaiad’s response to this please. And you still have not responded to whom I should ask if I cannot ask the missionaries (whom I adore by the way)

Yes, that’s pretty much what we believe. There are some things you are leaving out though. All this we are doing is still a part of God’s dominion. We are not taking from him, we are adding unto him. We are only a part of the helping process for all the worlds he has created or will create. We will be called up as kings and queens to rule and reign with God, not over God.

Oh, and while you can ask anyone. And many of us will help you find places to learn and gain understanding, You need to ask the Holy Ghost to teach you. The Savior told us that is where we need to turn for the truth of all things. So, when one of us or someone else gives you answers, it’s still on your shoulders to council with the Holy Ghost to find out if these answers are truth from God or not.

MEgus

 

[alanjeddy]

may be you can help with this also Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.) Devil, the The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.) Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) God God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.) “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans…” (D&C 130:22). God, becoming a god After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.) “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them,” (DC 132:20). God, many gods There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3) God, mother goddess There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.) God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.God, Trinity The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated .by the. please take your time i can wait and thank you

Remember when I said the Mormons believe in 3 separate Gods? You mormons denied this saying One God in three Devine persons. Look above to Mormon Doctrine page 516 . God Trinity The Trinity is 3 separate Gods…Excellent research Bill!!!

 

[RebeccaJ]

I guess it depends on what you were studying.

For instance, are you aware that the early Church taught the deification of man?

MEgus

Still teaches this.

As truthsilence says, we partake of the divine nature, we do not become that nature.

 

[MEgus]

Your church has taught several things that are not at your lds website today. Things that Mormons believe.

• God the Father had sex with Mary, taught by your church until c.1970. There are mormons who still believe this. This teaching is not at your lds website.
• Humans who become gods will rule over their own worlds. Also taught by your church. There are mormons who still believe this. This teaching is not at your lds website.
• God the Father is subject and worshiped a god who is above him. Taught by your church. There are mormons who still believe this. This teaching is not at your lds website.

We teach that God the Father is the Biological Father of Jesus Christ. No Where do we ever teach or have ever taught that he had Sex with the Virgin Mary. How could she be a virgin if she had sex???

You misunderstand what it means to rule with the Father. And this is still taught.

No where in the teachings of the Church ever are that God the Father ever had another God over him. He has always been God, and though there are other gods, there never was a God over God the Father. Again, Church Doctrine.

MEgus

 

[MEgus]

may be you can help with this also Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.) Devil, the The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.) Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) God God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.) “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans…” (D&C 130:22). God, becoming a god After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.) “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them,” (DC 132:20). God, many gods There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3) God, mother goddess There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.) God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.God, Trinity The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated .by the. please take your time i can wait and thank you

Bill, maybe you could explain this first.

The Real Shocker

The real shocker for many Catholics (and its easy for us to get comfortable and miss it) is the answer as to why God became a man. The immensity of the answer, the immensity of the gift which reveals the depth of God’s love is this: “The Son of God became man so that we might become God.”

Whoa! Did that knock your socks off or what? You mean God is not afraid of us becoming God? Exactly. It was the devil who lied to us and told us God was afraid of such a thing. It was God’s plan all along that we should become “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pt 1:4). In this plan we have to do it His way — which is the way of love (commitment) and not the way of lust and power. “God is love” (1 Jn 4:9) and we can only enter Him and He can only enter us according to His plan of love. Hearing that makes it easier to love God does it not? Hearing of God’s perfect love for us casts out our fears and enables us to give ourselves to God who so obviously loves us and loved us first (1 Jn 4:10).

Inside the Passion of the ChristIs it too good to be true? The quotation (“The Son of God became man so that we might become God”) you just read comes straight from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is a quotation from one of the greatest Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church; the one who saved Christianity from the Arian heresy. The quotation is from Saint Athanasius and can be found in paragraph 460 of the Catechism. It is followed by Saint Thomas Aquinas commenting: “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in His divinity, assumed our nature, so that He, made man, might make men gods.” Nothing is being taken out of context.

 

[alanjeddy]

Yes, that’s pretty much what we believe. There are some things you are leaving out though. All this we are doing is still a part of God’s dominion. We are not taking from him, we are adding unto him. We are only a part of the helping process for all the worlds he has created or will create. We will be called up as kings and queens to rule and reign with God, not over God.

Oh, and while you can ask anyone. And many of us will help you find places to learn and gain understanding, You need to ask the Holy Ghost to teach you. The Savior told us that is where we need to turn for the truth of all things. So, when one of us or someone else gives you answers, it’s still on your shoulders to council with the Holy Ghost to find out if these answers are truth from God or not.

MEgus
That is the very thing that caused the fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden. Satan said eat of the fruit it won’t harm you. You can be like God. Heaven is about attaining the Beatific Vision. We will be happy for all eternity. Eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has prepared for those who love Him.

So according to Bill research it looks like what I am saying is accurate. I wouldn’t exactly call it Christian orthodoxy to say the least.

 

[RebeccaJ]

No where in the teachings of the Church ever are that God the Father ever had another God over him. He has always been God, and though there are other gods, there never was a God over God the Father. Again, Church Doctrine.

MEgus

Seriously, you were either born later than c.1980 or converted to mormonism since then, because frankly, you don’t know what you are talking about.

 

[MEgus]

Still teaches this.

As truthsilence says, we partake of the divine nature, we do not become that nature.

Not what your early Fathers taught.

Maybe the modern is to define it away, but the early Church taught that man could become God.

MEgus

 

[MEgus]

MEgus;4766158:

Yes, that’s pretty much what we believe. There are some things you are leaving out though. All this we are doing is still a part of God’s dominion. We are not taking from him, we are adding unto him. We are only a part of the helping process for all the worlds he has created or will create. We will be called up as kings and queens to rule and reign with God, not over God.

Oh, and while you can ask anyone. And many of us will help you find places to learn and gain understanding, You need to ask the Holy Ghost to teach you. The Savior told us that is where we need to turn for the truth of all things. So, when one of us or someone else gives you answers, it’s still on your shoulders to council with the Holy Ghost to find out if these answers are truth from God or not.

MEgus
That is the very thing that caused the fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden. Satan said eat of the fruit it won’t harm you. You can be like God. Heaven is about attaining the Beatific Vision. We will be happy for all eternity. Eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has prepared for those who love Him.

So according to Bill research it looks like what I am saying is accurate. I wouldn’t exactly call it Christian orthodoxy to say the least.

Alan,

Have you read the Bible?

Tell me, what does God say after Adam eats the fruit and who does he say it too?

MEgus