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nodito
Guest
Our Holy Father also said, “The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life.”
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kozlosap
Guest
I am so astounded that you have the intentional fortitude to tell another human being that their own memories and sexual orientation is a lie. Maybe you should talk with a few psychiatrists or neuro-biologists and find out what their professional opinions are. Can you, as a supposed straight person, remember the we exact moment that you decide to be straight?
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gntlmnr
Guest
Dear koslosap, joseie is not unique in his position. Now that the subject of homosexuality is being talked about almost everywhere and almost all the time, I am coming across a lot of people who share his view, and a lot of people have big trouble grasping the fact that homosexuals do not choose their sexuality, and people like joseie don’t make a distinction between homosexual orientation and homosexual acts. To them homosexual orientation and homosexual acts are one and the same. I think they find the issue so shocking to the point where they cannot comprehend it, so they go into a state of denial and they insist that homosexuality is absolutely a choice; even though they have no clue about what they are talking about.I am so astounded that you have the intentional fortitude to tell another human being that their own memories and sexual orientation is a lie. Maybe you should talk with a few psychiatrists or neuro-biologists and find out what their professional opinions are. Can you, as a supposed straight person, remember the we exact moment that you decide to be straight?
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joseie
Guest
I am sorry that my post hurt homosexuals and those sympathising with them. My view was based on the universal truth that’If you know what you are doing or going to do is wrong,there IS an option not to do it ,be whatever the situation’.I am referring only to the sexual acts of homosexuals.If the pair only love and respect each other without indulging in sex there is no issue at all .Are not normal people love and respect same sex people? But in such a case can they be called homosexuals? How do others know that they are so? The fact is that sex is the binding force between them without which they do not have any stable existence.At some moment they are bound to feel some guilty conscience that what they are doing is wrong and is against nature and God.Gentlmnr’s admission that given a choice he wants to be a heterosexual confirms this.Now if it is felt to be wrong,the principle I mentioned in the beginning applies.That is ,there is an option to come come out.I do not have any thing to say to those who still feels that it is quite natural ,there is nothing wrong and they have a right to enjoy sex between them as others do with opposite sex.
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estesbob
Guest
You can be accepting of your friends choice but NEVER affirming.
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gntlmnr
Guest
joseie, I was not asking for your approval or anybody’s approval regarding homosexual acts. As a matter of fact, I am a homosexual that is living a chaste life. That means I am not having sex, just in case you don’t know what chaste means.
What you have to understand is that, as a man, there is a difference between being attracted to another man and having sex with another man. These are two distinct situations. I am exclusively attracted to men and never to women, and in that matter I have absolutely no choice, because it is not under my control to be attracted or not to be attracted to somebody. What attracts me is part of me, and I have no control over that; but yes, I certainly have control on whether I have sex or not have sex, and that’s why I’m choosing not to have sex, and I am choosing to live a chaste life; so once again, while I can choose whether I have sex or not, I cannot choose who I am attracted to; and if I had the ability to choose whom I am attracted to, I would certainly choose to be attracted to women, because that would make life a lot simpler and easier. I hope that I added some clarification to your understanding of homosexuality.
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meme1961
Guest
The twins studies falsify the hypothesis that SSA is genetic, or epigenetic.
Some anthropological research done in the homosexual community suggests that for males, homosexuality is a learned behaviour. This, combined with the studies on how viewing pornography affect the male brain and how that forms concrete stimuli/response arcs, especially when one is young, suggest that homosexuality in the human male is a function of environmental factors, and high impact canalization ( a kind of “imprinting”).
This is somewhat verified by the data that has collected during the investigation of the sex abuse scandal in the Church, as between 80 and 90 percent of the abusive acts were pederasty (an example of “teaching” homosexuality to a teenager/young man who has yet to experience heterosexuality).
The widespread availability of online homosexual pornography is changing the age differentials, but does not particularly mitigate the power dynamic that is usually present, and is an intrinsic part of the language used by homosexuals.
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meme1961
Guest
The logical fallacy of your posting is found in your presumption of equality between the two outcomes. One does not have to decide to be properly ordered, as this outcome is natural, normal, and will occur unless action is taken to effect this natural outcome.I am so astounded that you have the intentional fortitude to tell another human being that their own memories and sexual orientation is a lie. Maybe you should talk with a few psychiatrists or neuro-biologists and find out what their professional opinions are. Can you, as a supposed straight person, remember the we exact moment that you decide to be straight?
In other words, it’s like dropping a ball. No decision or action needs to be taken for the ball to fall to the floor. But if you wish the ball NOT to fall to the floor, then you must act to prevent this from occurring.
In short, one does not have to decide to be heterosexual, as heterosexuality is the proper ordering.
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Bradski
Guest
Be happy.
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gntlmnr
Guest
You are speaking from textbook cases perspective, and I am speaking from a personal experience perspective. When I was growing up, there was no internet whatsoever. I never watched pornography. I never had sex with any men whatsoever when I was growing up, as a matter of fact, I never met any homosexual people when I was growing up, and I rarely heard the word homosexual being mentioned when I was growing up, and when the subject of homosexuality was brought up, it was in a very negative and vile context, nothing that would encourage you to be a homosexual. My attraction to men started as early as I can remember, but I never really knew how to interpret my feelings of attraction, and I never gave those feelings much attention until I was in my late teen years when I had a crush on a man, and I was faced with trying to explain to myself what those feelings were. Then I came to the conclusion that I was a homosexual by analyzing those feelings that I had all along, and I started asking myself as to why I never have those feelings towards women, and that’s how I cam to the conclusion that I was a homosexual. So I realized that I was homosexual without having any prior sexual experience with men whatsoever.
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gntlmnr
Guest
ljwahn, your logic doesn’t hold water. I have a neighbor whose son was born with Down’s Syndrome. Did God make a mistake?
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joseie
Guest
Dear Gentlmnr.,you are not a homosexual ! Who told you that attraction towards same sex people is homosexuality ? Normal people get terribly attracted towards same sex people such as those who are eminent sportsman,who displays courage, wisdom,leadership qualities etc.Your statement that you are ‘attracted’ towards men ,do not have same feeling towards women etc. is misleading and vague. Why you are avoiding the usage sexual attraction? O.K,even then there is nothing wrong if you do not feel sexual attraction towards women because normal men also do not feel sexual attraction to 99% of the women they meet everyday.Since you are not a ’ normal’ homosexual your so called personal experience perspective has no force to counter the points of meme 1961.
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gntlmnr
Guest
Dear joseie, please don’t try to tell me who I am. I am almost 60 years old. I am very educated. I am very sophisticated. I am very well read, and I have more than average intelligence. I consult a psychologist, a psychiatrist, and a Catholic priest about my condition, and they all agree that I am a homosexual. So please save your opinion for yourself. I am avoiding to use the term “sexual” for the purpose of not being too graphic in my description of things (in other words, I’m trying to be polite), and not for any other reason at all.
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DrTaffy
Guest
Ah, but despite your age, education and intelligence, she knows better than you. The idea that you should be able to live your life according to your own beliefs is absurd.
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gntlmnr
Guest
Well DrTaffy, what is even more absurd is your statement. First of all, my belief is Catholic, and I do have to live according to my own belief, and it would be utterly absurd to live my life according to somebody else’s belief. Like, for example, your belief is Atheist, so should I live my life according to your belief? to a Muslim belief? to a Jewish belief? to a Hindu belief? to a Buddhist belief? etc…???
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nodito
Guest
I think DrTaffy’s statement was rather intended tongue-in-cheek.
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gntlmnr
Guest
LOL!!! And I took DrTaffy sooooo seriously. I offer my apologies DrTaffy.
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DrTaffy
Guest
No apology needed. I should have added an emoticon, but I have been told off repeatedly for over using them so I have been trying to cut back.
However the view I was lampooning is a real one, and one that I have seen repeatedly here on CAF.
For example, I have often seen the statement that ‘identifying’ as homosexual somehow implies that one’s sexual orientation is the sum and total of one’s being. Well, I am Welsh. Is that the sum and total of my being? I am a redhead, is that also the sum and total of my being? Likewise I am dyslexic, a physicist, francophone, ambidextrous and so many other adjectives. How many sum totals of my being do I have? :ehh:
As the saying goes, I don’t care if you are gay as long as you are happy.
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gntlmnr
Guest
Yes DrTaffy, you are absolutely correct about that, and unfortunately our brains are programmed by society, and by what society accepts as the norm, and when somebody has an “adjective” that doesn’t fit the norm, that somebody’s identity becomes solely that “adjective”, and all the other adjectives magically become invisible.
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RottweilerLover
Guest
Several thoughts occurred to me in reading this forum.
The first is the question of SSA. There seems to some that the determination of whether one is homosexual versus heterosexual happens after engaging in the sex act. How strange is that line of thinking? If that were true, a person would have sexual encounters with a male and then a female and then sit back, compare the encounters and decide, “Well…I truly didn’t care for the act with the man, but the one with the female was great! So that’s my sexual orientation!”
Now that is just silly. A person KNOWS his or her sexual orientation long before having sex. (This is in normal encounters, not forced acts or pedophile acts, etc) and persons who are truly bisexual know that as well. The idea that I, as a woman, can look at another woman and think how sexually attractive she is does not make me a lesbian. I am simply seeing how beautiful she is and desirable she appears to men. It does not mean I want to have sex with her!
Now, another thought is the question of what is a person to do about his or her sexual attraction. If it is SSA, and the person is a faith filled person who believes in the truth of God and Jesus Christ, the person will not act upon the sexual desires, since the homosexual act is sinful. The PERSON is not sinful, but the ACT is sinful. Just as feeling attraction toward sexual activity with a child is not the sin, the acting upon the desire is the sin. “God does not make mistakes.” No - He does not. A Down Syndrome child is not a “mistake”. Ask any parent of that child.
The question was raised, well, then, should a homosexual/lesbian person live a life denied of sexual fulfillment? Yes. If they are Christians, they will. Sex is not “necessary” to live, as needing food, water or shelter are. The question was asked if there are heterosexual persons who are demanded to live without sex, as denial of sexual relationships is somehow seen as necessary. Yes, there are many heterosexuals who live without sex. Never. Ever. Virgins. How about priests, Brothers, Sisters, Friars, hermits and (wow—imagine this!) a chaste, virginal adult who has either chosen to live that way or has simply not found another person with whom they want to marry?
Lastly, should the OP be celebrating the same-sex relationship of the friend? Should we be happy when our friends are happy?
No one should be happy that another person is living in a sinful manner. No one should celebrate an act that is sinful even if it somehow satisfies that person’s desires. If I am diabetic, but eating cake makes me happy, who will celebrate and be happy for me? No one! … Why not? Cake makes me “happy” (fulfills my desire). It is because everyone knows if I keep eating cake, I will die! No one wants me to die out of fulfilling my “desires”. Can I be “happy” in life without ever, ever eating cake? Sure I can! Yes, cake is tasty, but I don’t need it to survive. Plenty of people besides just diabetics choose to never, ever eat cake.
Therefore, I want my friend to be happy and I want to celebrate when she is happy, but not if she is doing something I know will kill her. Homosexual acts will kill her soul by damning it to hell.
Now, please don’t go off on how I should not “judge” another, that the Bible says, “judge not, lest you be judged”. When you quote that verse, it does not take into account what Jesus was really saying about judging. If you read the rest of that Biblical text, you will read that Jesus is telling you that you should be careful that you will also be judged by the same “yardstick” so to speak. In other words, we judge others by God’s Laws…judge another when it is an action sinful to God, because we all are here to help each other get to Heaven!
I apologize for the long post, but I wanted to make all my points while they were fresh in my mind. My take on what the OP asks is therefore, she should NOT be “celebrating” that the friend is in a sinful relationship, even though it appears to be making her “happy”.
The first is the question of SSA. There seems to some that the determination of whether one is homosexual versus heterosexual happens after engaging in the sex act. How strange is that line of thinking? If that were true, a person would have sexual encounters with a male and then a female and then sit back, compare the encounters and decide, “Well…I truly didn’t care for the act with the man, but the one with the female was great! So that’s my sexual orientation!”
Now that is just silly. A person KNOWS his or her sexual orientation long before having sex. (This is in normal encounters, not forced acts or pedophile acts, etc) and persons who are truly bisexual know that as well. The idea that I, as a woman, can look at another woman and think how sexually attractive she is does not make me a lesbian. I am simply seeing how beautiful she is and desirable she appears to men. It does not mean I want to have sex with her!
Now, another thought is the question of what is a person to do about his or her sexual attraction. If it is SSA, and the person is a faith filled person who believes in the truth of God and Jesus Christ, the person will not act upon the sexual desires, since the homosexual act is sinful. The PERSON is not sinful, but the ACT is sinful. Just as feeling attraction toward sexual activity with a child is not the sin, the acting upon the desire is the sin. “God does not make mistakes.” No - He does not. A Down Syndrome child is not a “mistake”. Ask any parent of that child.
The question was raised, well, then, should a homosexual/lesbian person live a life denied of sexual fulfillment? Yes. If they are Christians, they will. Sex is not “necessary” to live, as needing food, water or shelter are. The question was asked if there are heterosexual persons who are demanded to live without sex, as denial of sexual relationships is somehow seen as necessary. Yes, there are many heterosexuals who live without sex. Never. Ever. Virgins. How about priests, Brothers, Sisters, Friars, hermits and (wow—imagine this!) a chaste, virginal adult who has either chosen to live that way or has simply not found another person with whom they want to marry?
Lastly, should the OP be celebrating the same-sex relationship of the friend? Should we be happy when our friends are happy?
No one should be happy that another person is living in a sinful manner. No one should celebrate an act that is sinful even if it somehow satisfies that person’s desires. If I am diabetic, but eating cake makes me happy, who will celebrate and be happy for me? No one! … Why not? Cake makes me “happy” (fulfills my desire). It is because everyone knows if I keep eating cake, I will die! No one wants me to die out of fulfilling my “desires”. Can I be “happy” in life without ever, ever eating cake? Sure I can! Yes, cake is tasty, but I don’t need it to survive. Plenty of people besides just diabetics choose to never, ever eat cake.
Therefore, I want my friend to be happy and I want to celebrate when she is happy, but not if she is doing something I know will kill her. Homosexual acts will kill her soul by damning it to hell.
Now, please don’t go off on how I should not “judge” another, that the Bible says, “judge not, lest you be judged”. When you quote that verse, it does not take into account what Jesus was really saying about judging. If you read the rest of that Biblical text, you will read that Jesus is telling you that you should be careful that you will also be judged by the same “yardstick” so to speak. In other words, we judge others by God’s Laws…judge another when it is an action sinful to God, because we all are here to help each other get to Heaven!
I apologize for the long post, but I wanted to make all my points while they were fresh in my mind. My take on what the OP asks is therefore, she should NOT be “celebrating” that the friend is in a sinful relationship, even though it appears to be making her “happy”.
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