Couple to form their "own church" ?

[paarsurrey]

And it’s dangerous.Very dangerous.

Hi

Yes, I agree with you it is dangerous , very dangerous.

Thanks

 

[Rightlydivide]

I know I said I didn’t think discussing this any further with you was productive, but I had to ask the following, because I’m curious: Why didn’t you answer these questions? If you’re a Bible only Christian, shouldn’t all your beliefs come strictly from the Bible, and nowhere else? The only thing you’ve proven so far is that not all your beliefs come from the Bible. You have yet to disprove the truth of the Catholic faith.

Also, I would like to add that I hear the Gospel proclaimed every Sunday at Mass. Passages from the Gospels are always read, and the priest always expounds upon it. This has been true of every Catholic parish I’ve ever attended.

Reading from the gospel…I can only hope you are not serious…no I think you are. You PREACH the gospel!

Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mat 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, [there] shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

Luk 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Rightlydivide,

Please provide Book, Chapter, and Verse where this authority was lost.

I am speaking of the authority that the earthly organization had and that when people actually read their Bibles, as God knew they would, his will was done. Quite an inept God if the Reformation was not his will. Could not keep together his “true” church.
No, the truth is his Holy Spirit is working wonders!

 

[Rightlydivide]

yes, the bishops and presbyters(priests) ordained by them do plant churches and they are in succession with the laying on of hands ordination from the very first bishops of the Church, the apostles.

Laying on of hands. Just a simple disciple laid hands on Paul. Apostolic succession…do not get me started on that!

 

[Rightlydivide]

You’re generalizing about Catholics, and you’re not being fair. I know plenty of Catholics, both priests and average parishioners, who witness and lead people to Christ. I can tell you stories of a lot of Protestants (again, both ministers and lay people) who are lukewarm, or even cold. These Protestants didn’t bother leading people to the Lord. There are devout people and apathetic people on both sides, Protestant and Catholic. And the traffic isn’t one way, either. People are converting to the Catholic faith too. The parishes here in my area are full of converts, many of whom have converted from Prostestantism. The more I read your posts, the more I think you just want to argue and insult instead of engaging in mature, honest discussion. I don’t think trying to discuss these matters with you is productive at all.

I could care less about “Protestants”. The word is not in the Bible. I am talking about Christians on fire for God. Your churches are lethargic, people singing like they are at a funeral, no one looking at anyone and the rush to get out the door is unlike anything I have ever seen at ANY other church.
I admit I have only been to a dozen or so Catholic churches and perhaps they are not all like that. Perhaps I am also imagining all the Catholics leaving the Catholic church worldwide to find something else.
I have not insulted anyone though, dont be sensitive.
My almost Catholic but I think still Anglican Catholic friend got me to preaching! That is bound to happen every now and then Mr. Quackers.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Hi

Yes, I agree with you it is dangerous , very dangerous.

Thanks

Must resist…good I did!

 

[justinthemartyr]

I am speaking of the authority that the earthly organization had and that when people actually read their Bibles, as God knew they would, his will was done. Quite an inept God if the Reformation was not his will. Could not keep together his “true” church.
No, the truth is his Holy Spirit is working wonders!

what wonder was that? The wonder of how many divisions can I cause in as short of time as possible so that the world would be confused as to who I am and where to find me?

This is not of God, in any way shape or form.

God is the God of order and peace and not of chaos and division.

Jesus called the church to be one. He specifically aked His apostles, the first bishops to go and preach the gospel, and to command everyone else to obey what He had commanded His apostles to teach.

This did not give the authority to laypersons.

The lay person does not have the ability to confect the Eucharist, or convey most of the sacraments, not to preach in the church from the pulpit. Those who do this from man made religions, such as lutheranism and presbyterianism have caused great schisms and divides.

Any church started by anyone except Christ in unity and succession of His first apostles is starting another religion, one which is not teahcing what the Apostles doctrines are.

 

[Rightlydivide]

what wonder was that? The wonder of how many divisions can I cause in as short of time as possible so that the world would be confused as to who I am and where to find me?

This is not of God, in any way shape or form.

God is the God of order and peace and not of chaos and division.

Jesus called the church to be one. He specifically aked His apostles, the first bishops to go and preach the gospel, and to command everyone else to obey what He had commanded His apostles to teach.

This did not give the authority to laypersons.

The lay person does not have the ability to confect the Eucharist, or convey most of the sacraments, not to preach in the church from the pulpit. Those who do this from man made religions, such as lutheranism and presbyterianism have caused great schisms and divides.

Any church started by anyone except Christ in unity and succession of His first apostles is starting another religion, one which is not teahcing what the Apostles doctrines are.

This weekend lives will be changed, people will be converted, the hungry are being fed, it is a true working of God, no matter what the naysayers on this board say.
Praise God for churches which preach the gospel!

 

[AgnosTheist]

Can a catholic please explain this?

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

If two true Christians that are Protestants gathered together in Jesus name, is Jesus there in the midst of them?

And how does the bible itself define ‘Church’?

 

[AgnosTheist]

A. there is no salvation outside the Catholic church is True. This means that if anyone is saved that is not explicitly in the church, they are to some dergree implicitly in the church, for their is no salvation outside of Christ and His Body, the one Church He instituted. " there are many in my flock whom you know not of"

thanks. can you elaborate on these 2 ideas:

“Implicitly in the Church”

and

“Explicitly in the Church”

 

[Zooey]

Zooey;3080593:

People forming their own church because a divorced pastor is going to be in the pulpit…is…starting their own religion? So what IS the difference between what they are doing and the groups you mentioned? Oh yes, I know…300 or 400 years as I see it.

(A)First of all, we don’t know what they found so distasteful. Was it really a divorced pastor? Or was that a convenient excuse, in order to get away & start over??
Because, I don’t believe, you see, unless these people are colonizing Jupiter, that there are no other churches in the area. I just counted 17 in my head, all within 1o to 15 minutes drive from here…and I live in a **very **small town.
(B) The difference is between finding a place of worship, and declaring yourself divinely inspired. (My grandmother was fond of saying that, “If you are planning to tell me you’re receiving messages from Heaven, your name had better be Joan of Arc!”)
(C)No, the difference is having the humility to place yourself under the authority of a duly ordained leader, and declaring yourself a whole new prophetic voice.
Big difference. Big, big difference.

 

[Rightlydivide]

(A)First of all, we don’t know what they found so distasteful. Was it really a divorced pastor? Or was that a convenient excuse, in order to get away & start over??

I see no reason to doubt what the OP stated. For those who follow scripture, a divorced pastor is a big deal.
I see no reason to think they needed a “convenient excuse”. Anyone can legally start a church any time, they do not need an excuse I would not think

Because, I don’t believe, you see, unless these people are colonizing Jupiter, that there are no other churches in the area. I just counted 17 in my head, all within 1o to 15 minutes drive from here…and I live in a **very **

small town.
No one said there were not other churches. They wish to start their own it appears.

(B) The difference is between finding a place of worship, and declaring yourself divinely inspired. (My grandmother was fond of saying that, “If you are planning to tell me you’re receiving messages from Heaven, your name had better be Joan of Arc!”)

Believing that the Holy Spirit is working in you is probably more likely. The difference between that and “divinely inspired” may appear to be a result of how language is used.

(C)No, the difference is having the humility to place yourself under the authority of a duly ordained leader, and declaring yourself a whole new prophetic voice.
Big difference. Big, big difference.

Opening a new church because of a difference over divorced pastor does not equate to a new prophetic voice in my view. The language you are using is too dramatic I think.

 

[VWcrazy]

Anyone can legally start a church any time

Legally, yes. Bible-based, no. Rightlydivide has already shown that Scripture does not condone starting one’s own Church at any time.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Legally, yes. Bible-based, no. Rightlydivide has already shown that Scripture does not condone starting one’s own Church at any time.

Condone?
I think it is very clear that scripture does not say the exact process for starting a church. I can absolutely tell you that the permission of a Catholic Bishop in Rome is not needed. No early church father and scripture do not say that.

 

[VWcrazy]

I think it is very clear that scripture does not say the exact process for starting a church. I can absolutely tell you that the permission of a Catholic Bishop in Rome is not needed. No early church father and scripture do not say that.

It is very clear that Scripture does not say there is ANY process for starting a Church. If there were, I am sure you would have produced the exact Book, Chapter, and Verse which supports this (non-Biblical) idea.

 

[justinthemartyr]

This weekend lives will be changed, people will be converted, the hungry are being fed, it is a true working of God, no matter what the naysayers on this board say.
Praise God for churches which preach the gospel!

People coming to God is wonderful, feeding the hungry and any other corporal work of mercy is fantastic!
But when you teach them incorrect doctrines which differ from the apostles doctrines in every single age of the church, that is abhorrent.

It is directly against the will of God.

including the false doctrine of sola scriptura invented by Luther in the early 16th century which has caused this(division) to happen.

 

[Rightlydivide]

People coming to God is wonderful, feeding the hungry and any other corporal work of mercy is fantastic!
But when you teach them incorrect doctrines which differ from the apostles doctrines in every single age of the church, that is abhorrent.

It is directly against the will of God.

including the false doctrine of sola scriptura invented by Luther in the early 16th century which has caused this(division) to happen.

Thus the heart of the matter. I do not think the doctrines you follow come from the apostles.

 

[estesbob]

If they follow the Bible, I am sure people will be led to Christ.

They will not be led to Christ. What they will be led to is a one-dimensional caricature of Christ. Like having a cardboard cutout of Jesus standing in the corner. And their little group will draw more and they will sit around and parse Scripture verses and sing songs and inevitably some members will determine their not being “fed” by this “Churh” anymore and they’ll leave to start their own. And the cycle starts over again.

But there is hope … Occasionally one of these stumbles into a Catholic Church and their first reaction is"where is the book"? They wonder why there are not Bibles in every pew?. But they look ahead and see a flickering red candle on the altar. So in curiousity they walk down the aisle and take a seat And then they are on knees. They know they are in his presence. He has come -not with a thunderclap or singing angels -but he is there in Body and spirit. And suddenly they realize that you dont find Jesus in a book-you find him in his Church. They kneel there utterly content as they know they have come home.

 

[Rightlydivide]

They will not be led to Christ. What they will be led to is a one-dimensional caricature of Christ. Like having a cardboard cutout of Jesus standing in the corner. And their little group will draw more and they will sit around and parse Scripture verses and sing songs and inevitably some members will determine their not being “fed” by this “Churh” anymore and they’ll leave to start their own. And the cycle starts over again.

But there is hope … Occasionally one of these stumbles into a Catholic Church and their first reaction is"where is the book"? They wonder why there are not Bibles in every pew?. But they look ahead and see a flickering red candle on the altar. So in curiousity they walk down the aisle and take a seat And then they are on knees. They know they are in his presence. He has come -not with a thunderclap or singing angels -but he is there in Body and spirit. And suddenly they realize that you dont find Jesus in a book-you find him in his Church. They kneel there utterly content as they know they have come home.

I read and learn about the Jesus in the Bible. Catholicism does not have any knowledge about Christ that I do not have or anyone else. Sure, there are books that claim to know things we do not but they are usually gnostic in nature.
Souls will be won. People will be baptized. You notice this Catholic poster does not rejoice at that. I wonder why? If an agnostic became Catholic, I would be VERY happy for them. I rejoice when souls are converted to Christ because I know what it did for me and others.
For some people, those who go to a church that claims an exclusive knowledge of Christ, not being part of that very special group that is right and everybody else is wrong is difficult.
I have always said that Christians can be found in most churches.
I do think the Bible should be followed in all matters but Lord have mercy, a won soul is a won soul and I praise God for that.

 

[VWcrazy]

I do not think the doctrines you follow come from the apostles.

Like establishing your Churches without any sort of Biblical support?