Couples with kids, cohabitating are among those marrying at papal Mass

[J_Peterson]

This borders on scandal if not scandal itself. The lukewarm catholic will look at this event and think that fornication before marriage is permissible, “heck I may even be married by the Pope himself, who will overlook my cohabitation.”

This could have been a teachable moment. But we are hearing ambiguity at best. Would have been nice to hear a Vatican statement saying, " co-habitating couples have renounced their sinfulness and have all received the Sacrament of Confession prior to the ceremony."

They wouldn’t be able to confirm if there was a confession prior to the ceremony.

They don’t necessarily overlook cohabitation, it was acknowledged in my case and our priest had a talk with us separate from Pre-Cana. In fact, the couple isn’t overlooking their cohabitation by the simple fact they are getting married in the Church. That in itself can be seen as an acknowledgment that the situation needs fixing.

You can’t stress the importance of marriage while putting roadblocks in front of people who want to come fully into the Church.

 

[ProVobis]

I applaud this action by Pope Francis. The Church has made it almost impossible for people to come back. My brother was married outside of the church by a woman minister. After many years of marriage and children, he wanted to come back to the Church and be married in the Church. He was told he had to move out of his home, and he and his wife would have to go through Pre-Cana in order to be married in the Church. How does a father and husband do this, exactly? He must suffer and make his wife and children suffer due to his sin 10 years before?

Then what about those who have had several partners and perhaps several kids who want to come back to the sacraments? There has to be a line drawn somewhere. You are right, though, children should not suffer and the sacraments are quite open to them.

 

[J_Peterson]

Then what about those who have had several partners and perhaps several kids who want to come back to the sacraments? There has to be a line drawn somewhere. You are right, though, children should not suffer and the sacraments are quite open to them.

As long as we have the Sacrament of Confession there doesn’t need to be a line drawn anywhere. St. Augustine became a Bishop despite having a son out of wedlock. If he had 5 would he have been less holy after his conversion?

 

[commenter]

With all due respect to the Holy Father, I really don’t see the big deal about this. The press is blowing it out of proportion for its own purposes. Those of us who are parish priests have been dealing with these issues for a long time now. While there are a few priests out there who act “more Catholic than the Pope”, they are relatively few. I cannot recall a single story of someone being denied a wedding because the bride has a child.
I have heard in the past of co-habitating couples being denied a Nuptial Mass, but they still were able to get married in the Church. However, that was in the past and I rarely hear about such arrangements any more. It seems nowadays everyone gets a Nuptial Mass.

IMHO, most of the urban legends involving wedding denials come from the 50’s and 60’s, people simply regurgitating stories of the parents and grand parents struggles with parish priests and church rules.

In modern USA city parish life, we deal with this kind of thing all the time and its even more complicated because records and previous marriages were done in other countries which may or may not keep good records. If we set up strict rules, then couples will simply lie to us and give us two different address and two different phone numbers while remaining co-habitated. Either that or they’ll simply go away and never return. We parish priests have been walking the fine line of compassion and encouragement to the Church’s teachings. But the basic fact remains that we recognize these couples want to regularize their relationship with the Church, they want to be active members of the Church.

I think the best Catholic response is to simply shrug our shoulders at the press and say, “Yeah we already knew that about our Church, glad you guys finally caught up to speed!”

Thank you father for “walking the fine line”. My son and his fiance are just now going through this, and a good priest did walk “the fine line” with them. My prayers are with you, with him, and all parish priests.

 

[Sarabande]

With all due respect to the Holy Father, I really don’t see the big deal about this. The press is blowing it out of proportion for its own purposes. Those of us who are parish priests have been dealing with these issues for a long time now. While there are a few priests out there who act “more Catholic than the Pope”, they are relatively few. I cannot recall a single story of someone being denied a wedding because the bride has a child.
I have heard in the past of co-habitating couples being denied a Nuptial Mass, but they still were able to get married in the Church. However, that was in the past and I rarely hear about such arrangements any more. It seems nowadays everyone gets a Nuptial Mass.

IMHO, most of the urban legends involving wedding denials come from the 50’s and 60’s, people simply regurgitating stories of the parents and grand parents struggles with parish priests and church rules.

In modern USA city parish life, we deal with this kind of thing all the time and its even more complicated because records and previous marriages were done in other countries which may or may not keep good records. If we set up strict rules, then couples will simply lie to us and give us two different address and two different phone numbers while remaining co-habitated. Either that or they’ll simply go away and never return. We parish priests have been walking the fine line of compassion and encouragement to the Church’s teachings. But the basic fact remains that we recognize these couples want to regularize their relationship with the Church, they want to be active members of the Church.

I think the best Catholic response is to simply shrug our shoulders at the press and say, “Yeah we already knew that about our Church, glad you guys finally caught up to speed!”

Thank you, Father, for saying this. When I first saw the story, I was like, “Why is this news?” The priests and parishes I know have been dealing with issues like this in the same way as you for years. I cantor for Catholic weddings quite often and have a lot of one-on-one contact with couples who tend to share with me their experiences. Most of them are already cohabitating. Some already have children. They know what the Church’s stance is on that and many have had nothing but good things to say about the priests marrying them for being compassionate about them and their situation, yet still not being lukewarm about the “rules”. So many priests walk that “fine line”, as you say.

 

[bekalc]

I want to comment that the cohabitating couple may want the Church to recognize their marriage. It’s not like the Church has a Protestant understanding. Not marrying these couples may only lead them further to sin. I had family members who were living together that got married in the Church. There was no separation. Look do I want them to repent yes. But I also desperately want them out of an objective state of sin! My hope is now the sinfulness of the relationship is over they maybe more open to the things of God. The Church should be trying to regularize these relationships. I will say this PreCana can be a tool for evangelization. This was a mixed couple and I know the non Catholic was incredibly impressed with Pre Cana and came out with more respect for the Church. Scripture even says “It is better to Marry than to burn.” Unfortunately there are folks who are not strong enough to resist these temptations. Let’s catch them from that fire.

 

[J_Peterson]

I want to comment that the cohabitating couple may want the Church to recognize their marriage. It’s not like the Church has a Protestant understanding. Not marrying these couples may only lead them further to sin. I had family members who were living together that got married in the Church. There was no separation. Look do I want them to repent yes. But I also desperately want them out of an objective state of sin! My hope is now the sinfulness of the relationship is over they maybe more open to the things of God. The Church should be trying to regularize these relationships. ** I will say this PreCana can be a tool for evangelization. This was a mixed couple and I know the non Catholic was incredibly impressed with Pre Cana and came out with more respect for the Church.** Scripture even says “It is better to Marry than to burn.” Unfortunately there are folks who are not strong enough to resist these temptations. Let’s catch them from that fire.

This was my wife’s experience as well. I’m glad that others have the same experience.

 

[ProVobis]

As long as we have the Sacrament of Confession there doesn’t need to be a line drawn anywhere. St. Augustine became a Bishop despite having a son out of wedlock. If he had 5 would he have been less holy after his conversion?

I see your point, from his standpoint. As long as he provides paternal support to the 5, I suppose you’re right. What to do with the five women, that’s another stickler.