Cradle Catholic questioning if I belong

[pianistclare]

Pianistclare,
I understand the Eucharist and believe it. However I am not allowed to receive it having a mortal sin. Correct? So what am I missing out on if I can’t receive it at mass?

Grace. Being the Presence of the Most High. Community with your Catholic brothers and Sisters. A great homily. Listening to the Word. Lots of things.
You can go to confession. Or is this a habitual sin?
Many people do not receive Communion for many reasons. They don’t throw in the towel. think of all the people awaiting marriage validation. They wouldn’t dream of missing.
I guess I’m not sure what the problem really is. Sorry.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

JimR,
Thank you for your thoughts. I am a cradle Catholic and my husband went through RCIA but did not join. I think it is wonderful that people of other religions have a choice to join the catholic faith or not. I did not have that choice, “once a Catholic, always a Catholic” as it was previously posted by someone to me. So how is it then that he can continue being a Lutheran and committing these “mortal sins” that only Catholics believe will doom someone. But I cannot even if I become a non-practicing Catholic? We both have been given the knowledge now that he went through the RCIA process.

Actually you did have the choice, well, at least you should’ve been given that choice when you received Confirmation. It is there that Catholics who were Baptized as infants, make the choice to be committed in following Jesus Christ.

Now that being said, if you were like myself and many other Catholics, the social pressure from your parents kept you from doing anything other than going through the motions of receiving the Sacrament.

That’s OK, for the Holy Spirit still gives you the gifts received, but you were just not ready to use them.

As far as committing mortal sin goes, I have no idea what you’re referring to, but in order for a sin to be mortal, it has to be grave, and committed with “FULL” knowledge and consent.

This means it’s more than just being told a sin is mortal by an RCIA facilitator, but having an understanding of how it offends God, and you commit the sin with that knowledge and consent at the moment you commit it.

Your priest should be able to help you through all of this.

Anyway, don’t give into despair. Jesus Christ should be the center of your desire to join the Catholic Church or Lutheran Church. Religion merely serves to help us in our faith journey, and Christ will be with you if you are sincere in your love for Him.

Your life must be rooted in prayer, for this is the only way you will come to discern Christ will for you.

God Bless

Jim

 

[Jon_S_1]

Pianistclare,
I understand the Eucharist and believe it. However I am not allowed to receive it having a mortal sin. Correct? So what am I missing out on if I can’t receive it at mass?

I am curious why you don’t go to confession for the past and strive to change with a deeper understanding on these issues that seem, frankly, somewhat trivial and easy to change. Like why can’t you go to Saturday night mass and Sunday morning Lutheran service sometimes. And perhaps you and your husband can work on periods of abstinence.

You say he is thinking of you by “pulling out” but perhaps he would truly be thinking of you by setting aside intimacy to a time when you both are ready and ok for it.

I really would recommend you dig deep on these issues and research and pray and maybe spend some time in adoration and go to confession and lay it at the feet of Christ and move forward. Also. If you make known to your husband your oppossed to him “pulling out” and he does anyway, that’s on him, not you.

Also, the reason the catholic mass is unique is because Jesus is truly there in the Eucharist, keep that in mind.

God Bless

 

[Thorolfr]

When the bread and wine are consecrated in the Catholic Church, they *become *the Real Presence of Christ. He is really there, just as He promised. This is not the case in the Lutheran churches–they don’t even teach that.

Lutherans actually do believe in and teach the Real Presence in the Eucharist (although Catholics deny that He is there in a Lutheran church).

 

[St_Francis]

Lutherans actually do believe in and teach the Real Presence in the Eucharist (although Catholics deny that He is there in a Lutheran church).

My understanding is that Lutherans teach consubstantiation, not transubstantiation.

 

[Sy_Noe]

As far as committing mortal sin goes, I have no idea what you’re referring to, but in order for a sin to be mortal, it has to be grave, and committed with “FULL” knowledge and consent.

This means it’s more than just being told a sin is mortal by an RCIA facilitator, but having an understanding of how it offends God, and you commit the sin with that knowledge and consent at the moment you commit it.

What about the person who has been told something is mortal sin, they understand why the Church believes it offends God, but they still simply don’t believe it? Perhaps they simply lack faith in the Church’s teaching authority. Is that full knowledge?

 

[Sy_Noe]

My understanding is that Lutherans teach consubstantiation, not transubstantiation.

Maybe your understanding of consubstantiation is lacking. It’s my understanding that in faiths such as Lutheran and Episcopalian that Christ’s body and blood are indeed believed to be truly present and exist together with the bread and wine.

 

[Thorolfr]

My understanding is that Lutherans teach consubstantiation, not transubstantiation.

Lutherans teach “sacramental union” which is, according to Wikipedia:

Sacramental union (Latin, unio sacramentalis; Luther’s German, Sacramentliche Einigkeit;[1] German, sakramentalische Vereinigung) is the Lutheran theological doctrine of the Real Presence of the body and blood of Christ in the Christian Eucharist.

In the sacramental union the consecrated bread of the Eucharist is united with the body of Christ and the consecrated wine of the Eucharist is united with the blood of Christ by virtue of Christ’s original institution with the result that anyone eating and drinking these “elements”—the consecrated bread and wine—really eats and drinks the physical body and blood of Christ as well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramental_union

I don’t think that “sacramental union” is very different from “consubstantiation”. But as I understand it, in transubstantiation, Catholics believe that the bread and the wine become the body and the blood whereas Lutherans believe that the the body and blood are under the bread and wine (as Luther’s Small Catechism says). In either case, both believe that there is a Real Presence rather than the bread and wine being something more symbolic as some Protestants believe. Lutherans for the most part eschew philosophical or theological explanations for how exactly the body and blood are present.

 

[jmcrae]

I was raised by 2 catholic parents in a small town. My husband was raised Lutheran in a farming community close to where we now live. This past fall he decided he wanted to go through RCIA and join the catholic church we have been attending for the past 7 years. I was thrilled! About a week before Easter he told me that his heart wasn’t fully committed and that he would not be joining on Easter. I was disappointed but understood that he would have conflicts with some of the beliefs, surprisingly only 2. We talked about his reasons for a few days and I actually agree with him, which has caused me a great deal of heartache the past couple weeks. I have talked with our priest, he sent me here and to talk with my parents, who he does not know. That was disappointed again. I posted this question to “Ask an Apologist” last week but did not get a response. I am here to get some help and answers. Would if be better for me to be become a really good Lutheran or remain a habitually sinful Catholic? Or because I have been given the “knowledge” of certain mortal sins will I still be considered “sinful” no matter what faith I join. Is there any hope of heaven for my soul?

Who is on the throne of your life right now? That is to say, whose opinion is the one that you must follow?

If you put yourself on the throne of your life, then of course if you disagree with the Church, then you must leave the Church.

However, if Jesus is on the throne of your life - that is, if Jesus’ opinion is the one that you should follow, then understand this: Jesus said to our first Pope,
Matthew 16:18-19:

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind [meaning, **forbid

] on earth will be bound [that is, **forbidden] in heaven, and whatever you loose [meaning, **permit] on earth will be loosed [that is, **permitted] in heaven.’

This means that whatever the Catholic Church requires on earth, Jesus also requires for all human beings, both on earth and in Heaven. Jesus ratifies the teachings of the Catholic Church under the Catholic Pope.

So, if Jesus is on the throne of your life, then you know what you have to do, and becoming Lutheran will not make the problem go away, whatever it may be.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Lutherans teach “sacramental union” which is, according to Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramental_union

I don’t think that “sacramental union” is very different from “consubstantiation”. But as I understand it, in transubstantiation, Catholics believe that the bread and the wine become the body and the blood whereas Lutherans believe that the the body and blood are under the bread and wine (as Luther’s Small Catechism says). In either case, both believe that there is a Real Presence rather than the bread and wine being something more symbolic as some Protestants believe. Lutherans for the most part eschew philosophical or theological explanations for how exactly the body and blood are present.

Thanks Thorolfr for clearing up my understanding as well. I was maybe close.

 

[WT1]

Busy Sleeper,

I’ve read through the posts and what keeps coming to my mind is that you seem intent to “fight” obedience. Several easy solutions have been given but you find them unacceptable because it’s not what YOU want to do. Biblically I’m finding your situation similar to Jonah in that he didn’t want to obey God either so he too ran away but as Jonah found out, so will you, that you can’t run from God.

I find it amazing that you so easily concede the possibility of hell and that you will consider moving church faiths so that your children won’t learn the truth and may get to Heaven through a “loophole” of ignorance.

Please consider the following:

1. Your inconvenience is nothing compared to what Christ experienced during his passion.
2. Are you willing to deny yourself and more importantly your children the real presence of Christ? I don’t even understand how that could be fathomable.
3. It seems to me your faith is being tested please just have the strength to pass.

If this post comes across as judgmental, please forgive me it is written in the spirit of honestly trying to answer your questions and I do hope and pray you will make the decision that God wants you to make.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What about the person who has been told something is mortal sin, they understand why the Church believes it offends God, but they still simply don’t believe it? Perhaps they simply lack faith in the Church’s teaching authority. Is that full knowledge?

Then it’s mortal sin.

If they understand it and reject it, it’s a grave sin.

Jim

 

[jmcrae]

Then it’s mortal sin.

If they understand it and reject it, it’s a grave sin.

Jim

Refusing to be taught is also, separately, an additional mortal sin.

 

[Thorolfr]

Refusing to be taught is also, separately, an additional mortal sin.

Is belief always voluntary or something that we have control over? There are some things that one cannot make oneself believe. There might always be doubts.

 

[jmcrae]

Is belief always voluntary or something that we have control over? There are some things that one cannot make oneself believe. There might always be doubts.

Beliefs are not feelings. They are ideas that you know to be true. What you feel about them is irrelevant.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Refusing to be taught is also, separately, an additional mortal sin.

Not necessarily.

Refusing to be taught by some one you don’t trust as having the truth, would not be a sin.

Jim

 

[Thorolfr]

Beliefs are not feelings. They are ideas that you know to be true. What you feel about them is irrelevant.

I never said that beliefs are feelings. But there are ideas that you might not actually know to be true or that you doubt are true. For example, even if I was considering becoming a Catholic, I couldn’t make myself know that the pope is infallible on matters of faith and morals. Maybe he is infallible, but I can’t make myself believe this. I could say that I believe this, but if I had doubts, I would be lying that I actually know this to be true.

 

[jmcrae]

I never said that beliefs are feelings. But there are ideas that you might not actually know to be true or that you doubt are true. For example, even if I was considering becoming a Catholic, I couldn’t make myself know that the pope is infallible on matters of faith and morals. Maybe he is infallible, but I can’t make myself believe this. I could say that I believe this, but if I had doubts, I would be lying that I actually know this to be true.

If you are still in the process of learning, that’s one thing - you still haven’t collected all of the data that you need.

But if you have collected all of the data, and you come to the knowledge of the idea, and you know and understand that it’s Jesus’ idea, and you still refuse to believe it, then that’s a sin.

 

[jmcrae]

Not necessarily.

Refusing to be taught by some one you don’t trust as having the truth, would not be a sin.

Jim

That’s a good point. I was speaking in general terms.

 

[jmcrae]

I never said that beliefs are feelings. But there are ideas that you might not actually know to be true or that you doubt are true. For example, even if I was considering becoming a Catholic, I couldn’t make myself know that the pope is infallible on matters of faith and morals. Maybe he is infallible, but I can’t make myself believe this. I could say that I believe this, but if I had doubts, I would be lying that I actually know this to be true.

You can’t “make yourself know” anything. You require a teacher, and you require sufficient information. Once you have it, then you can believe it, even if your feelings are telling you that this isn’t anything like what you used to know.