Crimeans Who Ushered in the Russians Now Have to Live With Their Choice

[RGCheek]

No, the Declaration of Independence followed an old tradition of ending vassalage when a Lord or ruler was tyrannical, despotic and oppressive. I think this was called defideal declaration or something like that. It had a format of things to include like a list of grievances ending with an appeal, usually to the church, to recognize the end of the vassalage.

In the case of the USA we appealed to the rest of the world to recognize the end of our vassalage/rule by England and to become an independent nation. Mitterand recognized the validity of the argument and saw the US as different than the Napoleonic republics that plagued the land after 1812.

 

[Tomdstone]

Do you know why the Confederates weren’t American? Because they called themselves Confederates, or by the name of their state.

Jefferson Davis was the president of the Confederate States of America. According to the vice President of the Confederate States of America: “our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas: its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery is his natural condition. This, our new government, is the first in the history of the world based upon this great truth.”
Why do Americans in Kentucky and elsewhere have so many monuments and memorials dedicated to this philosophy today?

 

[RGCheek]

I have ancestors in my family who were Confederates. I have pictures of them. Should I be taken out and shot?

No, but you should reflexively apologize whenever you mention them or be cast out of the PC elites that now run everything.

 

[RGCheek]

Jefferson Davis was the president of the Confederate States of America. According to the vice President of the Confederate States of America: “our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas: its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery is his natural condition. This, our new government, is the first in the history of the world based upon this great truth.”

That was his opinion, so what? That proves that no Confederates simply fought to protect their hometowns from the huge armies that Lincoln was calling up to invade the South and compel it to return to the Union, an action that the UN today would denounce as tyrannical and imperialistic?

Lol, you really have no clue do you?

Why do Americans in Kentucky and elsewhere have so many monuments and memorials dedicated to this philosophy today?

PROVE THAT THE MONUMENTS CELEBRATE SLAVERY INSTEAD OF THE VALOR OF THEIR SERVICEMEN. You cant because it is a lie and you know it.

 

[BackHand]

Jefferson Davis was the president of the Confederate States of America. According to the vice President of the Confederate States of America: “our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas: its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery is his natural condition. This, our new government, is the first in the history of the world based upon this great truth.”

The Confederate states identified more with their home state’s than the overarching idea of a unified America, when Confederates were dying in battle they weren’t crying out “for America!” they were crying out “for Virginia” “for Texas!” ect. Also I’m tying the name America with the United States, seeing as how we were the first recognized nation in the new world we get naming rights.

Tomdstone;
Why do Americans in Kentucky and elsewhere have so many monuments and memorials dedicated to this philosophy today?

Because they look cool? Because they’re a part of history? You make it sound as though every southern home flies the Confederate flag, and has a whites only doormat.

 

[Darryl1958]

…

PROVE THAT THE MONUMENTS CELEBRATE SLAVERY INSTEAD OF THE VALOR OF THEIR SERVICEMEN. You cant because it is a lie and you know it.

I agree. The monuments are to recognize the valour and the great sacrifice that all Americans went through in that fratricidal war.

 

[Tomdstone]

That was his opinion, so what? That proves that no Confederates simply fought to protect their hometowns from the huge armies that Lincoln was calling up to invade the South and compel it to return to the Union, an action that the UN today would denounce as tyrannical and imperialistic?

Lol, you really have no clue do you?

PROVE THAT THE MONUMENTS CELEBRATE SLAVERY INSTEAD OF THE VALOR OF THEIR SERVICEMEN. You cant because it is a lie and you know it.

The proof that the Confederacy endorsed slavery is given by the declaration of the vice President of the Confederate States of America, Alexander Stephens at the Athenaeum in Savannah, Georgia on March 21, 1861: “Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.”
According to Harry V. Jaffa in his book, A New Birth of Freedom: “this remarkable address conveys, more than any other contemporary document, not only the soul of the Confederacy but also of that Jim Crow South that arose from the ashes of the Confederacy.”
I would not honor this ideology. I would not wave the Confederate flag. I personally would not celebrate the philosophy of the Confederacy as stated in the Cornerstone Address of vice President Alexander Stephens.

 

[Tomdstone]

Because they look cool? Because they’re a part of history? You make it sound as though every southern home flies the Confederate flag, and has a whites only doormat.

What did the Confederate States of America stand for? Read the Cornerstone speech of their vice president and you will see. This philosophy of subjugating the Black African and enslaving him and his family was the soul of the Confederate States of America according to the book A New Birth of Freedom by Harry V. Jaffa.

 

[Tomdstone]

I have ancestors in my family who were Confederates. I have pictures of them. Should I be taken out and shot?

IMHO, for the white man to enslave the African Black male and female was wrong. When you have the vice president of the Confederate States of America giving speeches saying that slavery of the Black African and subordination to the white man is his natural condition, then you should realize the horrible pain that a Black person today might feel as he sees his tax dollars going to support monuments and memorials to the Confederate States of America.

 

[Ridgerunner]

IMHO, for the white man to enslave the African Black male and female was wrong. When you have the vice president of the Confederate States of America giving speeches saying that slavery of the Black African and subordination to the white man is his natural condition, then you should realize the horrible pain that a Black person today might feel as he sees his tax dollars going to support monuments and memorials to the Confederate States of America.

I have seen it opined that the only states who really wanted the Civil War were South Carolina and Massachussetts. Probably an overstatement, but I think there’s some truth to it. Some of the Confederate states entered into it only reluctantly, and some did only by a very narrow margin.

And the core issues varied. If Stephens felt that the core issue really was slavery, then that was his motivation. As I posted previously, though, others like Sterling Price felt it was something quite different and, in the case of his state, he was right.

The way many white people thought about black people back then can be thought of as puzzling to us now. Lincoln, for example, favored sending them back to Africa. Some southerners who did not support slavery as an institution felt the same way about it. In retrospect, that seems an outrageous position to take. At the time, though, it might have not seemed as awful as it does to us because many of the slaves were recent arrivals.

 

[josie_L]

IMHO, for the white man to enslave the African Black male and female was wrong. When you have the vice president of the Confederate States of America giving speeches saying that slavery of the Black African and subordination to the white man is his natural condition, then you should realize the horrible pain that a Black person today might feel as he sees his tax dollars going to support monuments and memorials to the Confederate States of America.

Maybe you should read up on serfs/slavery (gulags) in Russia.

 

[tomarin]

I have seen it opined that the only states who really wanted the Civil War were South Carolina and Massachussetts. Probably an overstatement, but I think there’s some truth to it. Some of the Confederate states entered into it only reluctantly, and some did only by a very narrow margin.

And the core issues varied. If Stephens felt that the core issue really was slavery, then that was his motivation. As I posted previously, though, others like Sterling Price felt it was something quite different and, in the case of his state, he was right.

The way many white people thought about black people back then can be thought of as puzzling to us now. Lincoln, for example, favored sending them back to Africa. Some southerners who did not support slavery as an institution felt the same way about it. In retrospect, that seems an outrageous position to take. At the time, though, it might have not seemed as awful as it does to us because many of the slaves were recent arrivals.

I’d say even the way many white Americans typically thought about their black co-citizens as recently as in the 1920’s and 1930’s can seem strange.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

IMHO, for the white man to enslave the African Black male and female was wrong.

IMHO, that is a very bold and progressive stance for you to take.

When you have the vice president of the Confederate States of America giving speeches saying that slavery of the Black African and subordination to the white man is his natural condition, then you should realize the horrible pain that a Black person today might feel as he sees his tax dollars going to support monuments and memorials to the Confederate States of America.

The cause wasn’t noble but many men fought bravely and died defending their home and families in the War of Northern Aggression as it’s known in these here parts. The sacrifice of the Confederate soldiers is separate from the political cause they died for and should be commemorated. Consider them participation trophies for the men who served their country but didn’t take home first place.

 

[Darryl1958]

Maybe you should read up on serfs/slavery (gulags) in Russia.

Slavery for the most part has not been a race-based institution. Man’s inhumanity to man is as humiliating and painful to all races. Nobody has the market cornered on either oppression or victimhood.

 

[josie_L]

Slavery for the most part has not been a race-based institution. Man’s inhumanity to man is as humiliating and painful to all races. Nobody has the market cornered on either oppression or victimhood.

That’s the point I was trying to make, i.e., slavery was practiced by most races in some form or another, and Russia was no exception.

p.s. I still don’t understand what that has to do with the present day evils afflicting the Ukraine.

 

[Darryl1958]

That’s the point I was trying to make, i.e., slavery was practiced by most races in some form or another, and Russia was no exception.

p.s. I still don’t understand what that has to do with the present day evils afflicting the Ukraine.

Some people invariably need to change the topic to how evil America is.

 

[josie_L]

Some people invariably need to change the topic to how evil America is.

Yes, the “Great Satan”.

p.s. I’m just glad that the “Great Satan” is our neighbour and not Russia.

 

[Tomdstone]

The cause wasn’t noble but many men fought bravely and died defending their home and families in the War of Northern Aggression as it’s known in these here parts. .

I would not wave the Nazi flag or be in favor of memorials to Nazi Germany even though many Germans fought bravely and died defending their home and families.
I disagree with memorials to the Confederacy and waving the Confederate flag because of the pain and humiliation that this could inflict on those Blacks whose ancestors were slaves.

 

[Tomdstone]

p.s. I still don’t understand what that has to do with the present day evils afflicting the Ukraine.

Well, then why were you discussing American slavery and not expect others to respond?

I’m Canadian for the umpteenth time, so it’s not MY history, moreover, I would advise you to be a little less biased in your interpretation of history (it’s very leftist). And the civil war did end SLAVERY, or am I mistaken in believing that it no longer exists??

No, I’m not, it’s an historical fact that a civil war won by the Union ended slavery (you may question the motives of this or that person, but the end result is what it is).

You do realize that the Americans fought a civil war to end slavery, right? .

 

[josie_L]

Well, then why were you discussing American slavery and not expect others to respond?

And why shouldn’t I respond to people who continually post erroneous interpretations of history, even though I’d rather be discussing issues pertinent to the thread?

p.s. Word of advice, stop bringing up America’s past (which is no longer an issue) into every thread that’s about Ukraine/Russia.