Crimeans Who Ushered in the Russians Now Have to Live With Their Choice

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hrw.org/news/2014/12/15/russia-impunity-anti-lgbt-violence

Moscow) – Russian authorities have failed in their obligation to prevent and prosecute homophobic violence. Growing numbers of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people have been attacked and harassed across Russia in the lead-up and aftermath of the adoption of the federal anti-LGBT “propaganda” law in June 2013. The law effectively legalized discrimination against LGBT people and cast them as second-class citizens.

The 85-page report, “License to Harm: Violence and Harassment against LGBT People and Activists in Russia,” is based on dozens of detailed interviews with LGBT people and activists in 16 cities across Russia who experienced attacks or aggressive harassment because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. LGBT people described being beaten, abducted, humiliated, and called “pedophiles” or “perverts,” in some cases by homophobic vigilante groups and in others by strangers on the subway, on the street, at nightclubs, at cafes, and in one case, at a job interview.

“Violence experienced by LGBT people in Russia is unmistakably motivated by homophobia, but the authorities deliberately ignore that these are hate crimes and fail to protect victims,” said Tanya Cooper, Russia researcher at Human Rights Watch. “Russian authorities should effectively prosecute homophobic violence, and the authorities should stop engaging in and tolerating anti-LGBT discrimination.”

Human Rights Watch documented the stigma, harassment, and violence LGBT people in Russia face in their everyday lives. Most of those interviewed said that these problems intensified since 2013. In some cases, they were attacked by the anti-LGBT vigilante groups that appeared in dozens of Russian cities and towns in late 2012. These groups of radical nationalists lure gay men and teenage boys on the pretext of a fake date, hold them against their will, and humiliate and expose them by videotaping the encounter. Hundreds of such videos depicting abuse have been posted online.
“I felt blood in my mouth, but only later learned that the attackers had broken my jaw in two places,” said one victim of a vigilante group.

In other cases, LGBT people described being physically attacked by strangers during their everyday activities. Victims told Human Rights Watch that assailants followed them and in many cases hit them, while accusing them of being gay, calling them “faggots,” and hurling homophobic slurs at them in public places.

Witness: Beaten for Being Gay in Russia - Andrey’s Story

LGBT activists also face physical violence and harassment at public events supporting LGBT equality. The vast majority of LGBT activists interviewed had been attacked at least once during public pro-LGBT events since 2012, describing attacks in several cities. They said that although anti-LGBT counter-protesters routinely harass and attack them, the police consistently fail to take adequate measures to prevent the attacks and protect them from violence.

Out of 78 victims of homophobic and transphobic violence and harassment interviewed for the report, 22 did not report attacks against them to the police because they feared direct harassment from police and did not believe the police would take the attacks seriously. Many victims felt reporting the attacks to the police was a waste of time. Indeed, when victims did lodge complaints with the police, few investigations followed.

“Russian law enforcement agencies have the tools to prosecute homophobic violence, but they lack the will to do so,” Cooper said. “The failure to stop and punish homophobic violence and aggression puts LGBT people and their supporters at further risk of attack.”.
In the USA, state of California, Americans are putting a proposal on the ballot that would authorize the killing of homosexuals or lesbians by bullets to the head or any other convenient method. If I had a choice between being harassed, or being shot by bullets to the head by the Americans in California, I would choose harassment. To me, being shot in the head by bullets or some other convenient method, as is now being proposed by the Americans in California, seems to be a somewhat more severe example of homophobic violence than is seen in many other places in the world today. Americans have the tools to stop proposals such as this, but they apparently lack the will to do so.
pressreader.com/usa/los-angeles-times/20150324/281784217586177/TextView
 
No, the vote to separate from Ukraine in Crimea was 125% of the eligible voters, and joining Russia wasn’t on the ballot.
Both of what Ridgewater says here are false:

There was an 83.1 percent turnout and
The choices on the ballot were:
Choice 1: Do you support the reunification of Crimea with Russia with all the rights of the federal subject of the Russian Federation?
Choice 2: Do you support the restoration of the Constitution of the Republic of Crimea in 1992 and the status of the Crimea as part of Ukraine?
The original in Russian read:
Choice 1: Вы за воссоединение Крыма с Россией на правах субъекта Российской Федерации?
Choice 2: Вы за восстановление действия Конституции Республики Крым 1992 года и за статус Крыма как части Украины?
 
Putin is gassing the gays, mass murder.
A Moscow gay club was the subject of a gas attack by unknown assailants in November.
Three men in Russia were sentenced this month for the brutal murder of a man they stabbed and set on fire because they suspected he was gay.
A Russian newspaper editor was fined 50,000 roubles (£860) last month under the ‘gay propaganda’ law for printing that “being gay is normal”.
In May last year, a gay man from the southern Russian city of Volgograd who was tortured to death in an apparent hate crime, was sexually assaulted with beer bottles, and had his skull “smashed with a stone.”
The naked and beaten body of the 23-year-old man was found in the courtyard of an apartment building in the city.
“He was raped with beer bottles and had his skull smashed with a stone,” said Natalia Kunitskaya, a spokeswoman for the Volgograd region branch of the Investigative Committee.
Recently, Channel 4′s harrowing documentary, Hunted, followed the Russian gangs that hunt gay men for sport.
Investigative journalist Liz MacKean got inside the St Petersburg branch of Occupy Paedophilia, an anti-gay organisation with at least 37 chapters across Russia. The group tracks down and abducts gay men, torturing and humiliating them, before posting the footage on the internet.
during the banned Moscow Pride march near the Kremlin.
A large group of gay rights activists including the British human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell waved rainbow flags and carried signs reading “Russia is not Iran.” They were attacked by ultra-Orthodox campaigners who gathered to disturb the march, banned for the sixth year by the Moscow authorities.
In June last year, deputy of the Legislative Assembly of the Trans-Baikal Parliament Alexander Mikhailov said he planned to put forward a law allowing marines to whip gay people in public.
70 lashes like their buddy Iran.

etc.

pinknews.co.uk/2014/02/07/the-25-most-shocking-anti-gay-stories-from-russia-so-far/

:eek:
 
In the USA, state of California, Americans are putting a proposal on the ballot that would authorize the killing of homosexuals or lesbians by bullets to the head or any other convenient method. If I had a choice between being harassed, or being shot by bullets to the head by the Americans in California, I would choose harassment. To me, being shot in the head by bullets or some other convenient method, as is now being proposed by the Americans in California, seems to be a somewhat more severe example of homophobic violence than is seen in many other places in the world today. Americans have the tools to stop proposals such as this, but they apparently lack the will to do so.
pressreader.com/usa/los-angeles-times/20150324/281784217586177/TextView
Gee so I guess the USA is more against the homosexual agenda then Russia!

But seriously in some states in the USA one can put up the most ridiculous ballot measures that will never pass nor pass constitutional tests, like this one. You have the freedom to be a nutter in the US. In Russia, its mandatory. If this were put up in Russia, it would likely pass and be applauded by Putinistas as we know per Gary’s examples above, it is perfectly acceptable in Russia to beat gays to near death. So they don’t have to go very much further.
 
You guys are really hot and worked up for war, ain’t you?
How many of you plan to enlist?
 
Gee so I guess the USA is more against the homosexual agenda then Russia!

But seriously in some states in the USA one can put up the most ridiculous ballot measures that will never pass nor pass constitutional tests, like this one. You have the freedom to be a nutter in the US. In Russia, its mandatory. If this were put up in Russia, it would likely pass and be applauded by Putinistas as we know per Gary’s examples above, it is perfectly acceptable in Russia to beat gays to near death. So they don’t have to go very much further.
Imho Its a silent agenda which when it gets to be a public nuisance Putin has to stomp on it like a bug because of public and national image. He would prefer to have you believe they all pray weekly and simply reject gays because of Christian beliefs, morality etc. But the state fed media brainwashing is clear.

It reminds me of the marijuana issue in America, they really don’t care if you smoke dope, but if you make a fool out of them they will put you in prison, and quick.

Tons of links to the Occupy P group with weekly videos. I could see why Putin put the leader in prison, I could see why his sentence was cut in half also.
 
You guys are really hot and worked up for war, ain’t you?
How many of you plan to enlist?
Huh, :confused: Could you elaborate, I don’t understand the accusation. We are chatting about the rampant gay abuse in Russia. If you talk honestly than threats of violence and war are in order? Perhaps thats how Putin silences the honest people of Russia too.

Sounds radical to me. Most people I know don’t think war is the result of honest conversation and polite dialogue.
 
Both of what Ridgewater says here are false:

There was an 83.1 percent turnout and
The choices on the ballot were:
Choice 1: Do you support the reunification of Crimea with Russia with all the rights of the federal subject of the Russian Federation?
Choice 2: Do you support the restoration of the Constitution of the Republic of Crimea in 1992 and the status of the Crimea as part of Ukraine?
The original in Russian read:
Choice 1: Вы за воссоединение Крыма с Россией на правах субъекта Российской Федерации?
Choice 2: Вы за восстановление действия Конституции Республики Крым 1992 года и за статус Крыма как части Украины?
Well, you’re right in one way. The 123% was in Sebastopol. I don’t know how faked it was in the rest of the country.

"In Sevastopol, the largest city in Crimea, turnout for Sunday’s referendum reached an astonishing 123% of registered voters. There may be an explanation for this number that doesn’t involve the simple stuffing of ballot boxes:

“One reporter from Kiev showed his Russian passport and was handed a ballot and allowed to vote. This raised questions in Kiev if perhaps the Russian soldiers and Russian paramilitary occupying the area since late February had been allowed to cast votes.

Overall, an impressive 96.77% of Crimeans voted to secede from Ukraine. Legal scholar Ilya Somin asks whether such a result may reflect the fact that opponents of the Russian invasion simply stayed home. After all, why take part in what you know to be a Soviet-style farce? Unlikely, he says.

Brutal Intimidation

Less than 60% of Crimea is ethnically Russian and about 12% belongs to the Muslim Tatar minority, which wants to stay as far from Moscow as possible…"

forbes.com/sites/davidadesnik/2014/03/18/how-russia-rigged-crimean-referendum/

It’s absurd to imagine that most Ukrainians, let alone Tatars voted to be subject to a Russia they fear and hate. The fake referendum was condemned by virtually every member of the UN security council.

The referendum was regarded as illegitimate by most countries including all European Union members, the United States and Canada because of the events surrounding it[7] including the plebiscite being held while the peninsula was occupied by Russian soldiers.[8] Thirteen members of the United Nations Security Council voted in favor of a resolution declaring the referendum invalid, but Russia vetoed it and China abstained.[9][10] A United Nations General Assembly resolution was later adopted, by a vote of 100 in favor vs. 11 against with 58 abstentions, which declared the referendum invalid and affirmed Ukraine’s territorial integrity.[7] The Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People called for a boycott of the referendum.[11][12]

But it hardly matters now. Russia’s theft of Crimea is now guarded by nuclear missiles.
 
Looks like there are different versions of what was or wasn’t on the ballot in the fake referendum. I have read accounts that say joining Russia wasn’t on it.

Here’s an account from a reasonable source that says it was on it, but keeping things as they were was not on it. One could vote for Russia or to return to an older constitution, but you could not keep things as they were.

nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/europe/crimea-vote-does-not-offer-choice-of-status-quo.html?_r=0

But again, at this point the details of the phony referendum don’t matter too much because Crimea has been annexed to Russia and that’s the end of it. The whole world condemns the fraud, but with Putin telling everybody his finger is on the nuclear trigger for even lesser reasons, the world isn’t going to do anything about it.

Putin couldn’t even get China to vote with him in the Security Council. Not one nation on it backed him up. Not even Venezuela. China abstained.
 
In the USA, state of California, Americans are putting a proposal on the ballot that would authorize the killing of homosexuals or lesbians by bullets to the head or any other convenient method. If I had a choice between being harassed, or being shot by bullets to the head by the Americans in California, I would choose harassment. To me, being shot in the head by bullets or some other convenient method, as is now being proposed by the Americans in California, seems to be a somewhat more severe example of homophobic violence than is seen in many other places in the world today. Americans have the tools to stop proposals such as this, but they apparently lack the will to do so.
pressreader.com/usa/los-angeles-times/20150324/281784217586177/TextView
Amazing how people defend some of the worst despotisms by finding some little thing in another society to support a tu toque argument. Everyone knows that some proposal like that mentioned above has zero chance of ever passing even if it makes it onto a ballot, which is highly doubtful.

What may be the more interesting question is why people defend despotism at all.
 
Amazing how people defend some of the worst despotisms by finding some little thing in another society to support a tu toque argument. Everyone knows that some proposal like that mentioned above has zero chance of ever passing even if it makes it onto a ballot, which is highly doubtful.

What may be the more interesting question is why people defend despotism at all.
Becasue depsotism is a “Eastern Value”. Some like being in chains and look forward to licking the hands of their masters. Sounds like a S & M thing actually.
 
Becasue depsotism is a “Eastern Value”. Some like being in chains and look forward to licking the hands of their masters. Sounds like a S & M thing actually.
It has long seemed to me there’s more “S” to it than “M”. There is a flaw in the human psyche; a temptation, really, to dominate others. It’s fascinating to read and study the histories of some of the truly terrible modern despotisms and to see how many people found it in themselves to try to find their niche in the despotic hierarchy even when it presented a threat to them as well. Moths drawn to the flame of power over others. There are a lot of books on it, involving the Nazi regime, the Maoist regime and the Soviet regime primarily. But of all of them, it has seemed to me the best exposition, all things considered, is Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag series, because he treats of it not only as a political phenomenon but as one of personality, even of the soul.

Allowing human freedom is one of the most difficult things human beings ever manage to accomplish. It’s untidy, it’s chaotic, and can often be offensive. Always there is the difficulty of distinguishing what is truly harmful on a societal level and what is merely irritating or offensive. Always there is that irksome challenge “…you can’t change the other person by insistence, you can only change yourself and those few you can truly persuade in their hearts…”

Allowing human freedom has not been one of history’s hallmarks, and while it has its seemingly secure bastions in the West at present, and its islands here and there and elsewhere, it most definitely does not prevail on most of the globe. The waves of despotism, it seems, always wash the shores of those bastions and those islands, particularly when they become lax or weak. We’re seeing a lot of those waves today, and, frankly, a good number of those who sit safe on the shore and cheer the storm.
 
Because I want to, and for no other really good reason, I reminded myself in my former post of a segment from one of the most insightful men who ever lived; William Shakespeare. The urge to encourage the tempest is one of the temptations to which man is, unfortunately, subject; often done when one perceives that life has not dealt one the hand he expected or deserved. He puts it into King Lear’s mouth, but we see it everywhere today. We see it in the deadly proclamations of ISIS, of those, like the Mullahs of Iran, who threaten nuclear holocaust because someone dares to be Jewish, and of those who praise the despotic Putin when he threatens to sink whatever tubs pass for the Danish navy with nuclear missiles and shake the west they so despise. It is exactly the consequences of human freedom of action they hate.

" Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks! rage! blow!
You cataracts and hurricanoes, spout
Till you have drench’d our steeples, drown’d the cocks! 5
… And thou, all-shaking thunder,
Strike flat the thick rotundity o’ the world!
Crack nature’s moulds, all germens spill at once 10
That make ingrateful man! "

Ok. I’ve finished. As you were. 🙂
 
That don’t make it any more legal, Pepipop.
Tomarin, as they’re not comparable situations, the ‘legality’ issues will be completely different for both.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of an equivalent scenario, i.e. when the legal, democratically elected government had been overthrown, from one of the countries in question and what happened occurred. 🤷
 
Of perhaps passing interest.

Looks like private banks and industries in Crimea are being seized or closed by Russia and appropriated by Russian interests. A number of Ukrainian and Tatar dissidents have been killed. Ukrainian language in schools has been banned. The Orthodox Kiev Patriarchate (which the Moscow Patriarchate hates) has had 11 of its 18 churches closed.
There’s more, but totally expectable.

nytimes.com/2015/03/25/opinion/to-see-ukraines-future-recall-crimea.html?_r=1
 
Tomarin, as they’re not comparable situations, the ‘legality’ issues will be completely different for both.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of an equivalent scenario, i.e. when the legal, democratically elected government had been overthrown, from one of the countries in question and what happened occurred. 🤷
No one scenario is exactly like any other, but this most closely resembles the Nixon administration’s denoument. The Vice President was charged with criminality (rightly) and resigned, whereupon Congress selected Gerald Ford to replace him. Then Nixon was forced by public opinion and the possibility of impeachment to resign, making Gerald Ford president.

Again, realizing no two situations are ever exactly alike, Yanukovych reversed the popular approach to the EU, and tried to direct the country into a “Eurasian Union” run by Russia, and embezzled government funds. The popular opinion turned against him. Putin admitted he couldn’t keep him in power. Yanukovych left the country for Russia, giving no indication that he would return.

Being without an executive, the Ukrainian parliament appointed an interim president and scheduled an election for a new one. The election happened, and Poroshenko was elected.

So, of course, not exactly the same, but the same kind of thing. Neither even remotely approached a “coup”, though probably some diehard Nixon partisans said it at the time.
 
From the same New York Times article:

“Many of the so-called self-defense forces that sprang up a year ago, alongside Mr. Putin’s “little green men” (as the unmarked Russian armed forces are colloquially known), were the foot soldiers of Crimea’s criminal gangs. The region’s elite has long had a close relationship with organized crime. Various news organizations have reported that Mr. Putin’s handpicked leader in Crimea, Sergei V. Aksyonov, was known in mafia circles as “the Goblin” in the 1990s.”

Creepy, but not surprising.
 
From the same New York Times article:

“Many of the so-called self-defense forces that sprang up a year ago, alongside Mr. Putin’s “little green men” (as the unmarked Russian armed forces are colloquially known), were the foot soldiers of Crimea’s criminal gangs. The region’s elite has long had a close relationship with organized crime. Various news organizations have reported that Mr. Putin’s handpicked leader in Crimea, Sergei V. Aksyonov, was known in mafia circles as “the Goblin” in the 1990s.”

Creepy, but not surprising.
So they weren’t Russian soldiers, they were Crimeans.
 
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