Criminalization of drugs

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ignatius777 said:
wheres the proof that marijuana for instance is less harmful than other drugs. Please provide citations. Thanks
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Maybe you should define harmful.

Ha well the ld50 (lethal dose for 50% of the test population) of caffeine when taken orally by rats ranges from 192 mg/kg to 355 mg/kg. The ld50 of THC when taken orally by rats ranges from 730 mg/kg to 1270 mg/kg. This means that caffeine is 2-6 times more lethal than THC.

Check out the stats for yourself here: erowid.org/psychoactives/health/psychoactives_ld50s.shtml

You will notice that THC is also safer than acetaminophen (Tylenol), Nicotine, and alcohol.
 
Just google marijuana rehab.

And if marijuana is the goal, organized crime will still be selling meth, powder cocaine, heroin, crack, ecstasy, mescaline… Need I go on?

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Just google marijuana rehab.

And if marijuana is the goal, organized crime will still be selling meth, powder cocaine, heroin, crack, ecstasy, mescaline… Need I go on?

Ed
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This is no proof of anything. There are organized outfits that sell prescription drugs as well, some of them overlap.

The point is marijuana is one of the lowest in physical dependency, so rehab maybe only for psychological reasons.
 
SyroMalankara said:
This is no proof of anything. There are organized outfits that sell prescription drugs as well, some of them overlap.

The point is marijuana is one of the lowest in physical dependency, so rehab maybe only for psychological reasons.
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What? It’s obvious. If I was in organized crime and marijuana was legalized, I would sell it and make money off it and I would set up “grow it yourself” facilities in abandoned buildings and still sell it on the street for less than what the “legal” price is. Taxes? Who wants that? Getting caught on a store security camera after getting caught smoking dope and drinking and ending up in an accident. I’ll just be buying from the same dope dealer I’ve always been buying from, plus he can sell me the stuff that is illegal. Some marijuana, some pills, some crack… That’s going to be a big victory…

mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2015/03/49-year-old_bloomingdale_man_a.html

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
What? It’s obvious. If I was in organized crime and marijuana was legalized, I would sell it and make money off it and I would set up “grow it yourself” facilities in abandoned buildings and still sell it on the street for less than what the “legal” price is. Taxes? Who wants that? Getting caught on a store security camera after getting caught smoking dope and drinking and ending up in an accident. I’ll just be buying from the same dope dealer I’ve always been buying from, plus he can sell me the stuff that is illegal. Some marijuana, some pills, some crack… That’s going to be a big victory…

mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2015/03/49-year-old_bloomingdale_man_a.html

Ed
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Exactly, and that is why taxes must be made at an amount to still deter the black market; this already has happened with alcohol, if taxes are too high then the black market still thrives. Plus, drug dealer’s are not exactly reliable… if people can buy their drugs from a 9-5 M-F store then quite a few will simply choose the reliable store.
 
MTarcisius said:
Exactly, and that is why taxes must be made at an amount to still deter the black market; this already has happened with alcohol, if taxes are too high then the black market still thrives. Plus, drug dealer’s are not exactly reliable… if people can buy their drugs from a 9-5 M-F store then quite a few will simply choose the reliable store.
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They’ll still choose their reliable dope dealer who they’ve had for years. One stop shopping, and organized crime will still make a lot of money on the drugs that are illegal, like heroin, crack and powder cocaine. No tax, just profit. And those selling illegal drugs at private clubs or other party places. Like a convicted dope dealer told me: “When they come in, the first thing they ask about is who’s selling pills.”

Then organized crime, and disorganized crime, will target delivery trucks.

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
They’ll still choose their reliable dope dealer who they’ve had for years. One stop shopping, and organized crime will still make a lot of money on the drugs that are illegal, like heroin, crack and powder cocaine. No tax, just profit. And those selling illegal drugs at private clubs or other party places. Like a convicted dope dealer told me: “When they come in, the first thing they ask about is who’s selling pills.”

Then organized crime, and disorganized crime, will target delivery trucks.

Ed
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You say they will still use the same dealer… are you talking from experience or would you like to cite a source?

Also, yes you are correct, in order to stop black market drug deals then ALL drugs must be legalized… it doesn’t seem to have destroyed belgium.
 
edwest2 said:
They’ll still choose their reliable dope dealer who they’ve had for years. One stop shopping, and organized crime will still make a lot of money on the drugs that are illegal, like heroin, crack and powder cocaine. No tax, just profit. And those selling illegal drugs at private clubs or other party places. Like a convicted dope dealer told me: “When they come in, the first thing they ask about is who’s selling pills.”

Then organized crime, and disorganized crime, will target delivery trucks.

Ed
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Well, being legal and licensed brings a whole lot of government oversight. But how many moonshiners do you know lately? How about self growing tobacco rollers? How many Miller delivery guys are truckjacked in your town? I’m sure there are some, but legalizing and organizing these has pretty much destroyed any incentive to be outside the mainstream either due to convenience or enforcement. It will take a few years, but it is proven effective. Heck, I’m in one of the largest cities in the US, with pockets of ridiculously high crime, but I’ve not heard a report of a beer truck heist in my lifetime and those delivery guys usually leave their truck wide open with the beer in full view while delivering.
 
MTarcisius said:
Maybe you should define harmful.

Ha well the ld50 (lethal dose for 50% of the test population) of caffeine when taken orally by rats ranges from 192 mg/kg to 355 mg/kg. The ld50 of THC when taken orally by rats ranges from 730 mg/kg to 1270 mg/kg. This means that caffeine is 2-6 times more lethal than THC.

Check out the stats for yourself here: erowid.org/psychoactives/health/psychoactives_ld50s.shtml

You will notice that THC is also safer than acetaminophen (Tylenol), Nicotine, and alcohol.
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The new issue people haven’t notice is dabbing, if you heat up 150g of high quality oil that hits the ld50 for quite a few people.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
The new issue people haven’t notice is dabbing, if you heat up 150g of high quality oil that hits the ld50 for quite a few people.
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That sounds believable since a large dab would probably weigh less than .02 g. I don’t know if someone would be able to smoke 7500 times that amount without just dying from suffocation.

Assuming this high quality oil has a THC percentage of 80% then 150 g of oil would contain about 120,000 mg of THC. So based on the high ld50 estimates 120,000 mg of THC would meet the ld50 for a 208 pound or less individuals. That means that a 250 lbs individual might not die if they managed to ingest 150 g of hash. This is pretty impressive considering that 1 gram of hash would be generally considered a significant overdose (not dangerous, but definitely unpleasant).

Drug education can prevent drug overdoses.
 
ignatius777 said:
Still noting in that which is a rational or logical reason to legalize marijuana or other presently illegal drugs
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“Rational” does not mean agreeing with you, or any one person, as a standard of what is rational. My reasoning is clear, though by no means the only reasonable conclusions. Namely, incarceration as a response to drug possession has failed to reduce drug usage, or the problems and crimes associated with drug usage. Incarcerating for any extended time for drug usage is a worsening of the situation for the individual being punished. The closest analogy, Prohibition, resulted in an increase of violent criminal activity. Therefore, trying a new approach would be in order.

What is not rational, is holding other statements as irrational without reason, or more accurately, when reasoning is being used. Agree or not, legalizing drugs can be rationalized.
 
MTarcisius said:
That sounds believable since a large dab would probably weigh less than .02 g. I don’t know if someone would be able to smoke 7500 times that amount without just dying from suffocation.

Assuming this high quality oil has a THC percentage of 80% then 150 g of oil would contain about 120,000 mg of THC. So based on the high ld50 estimates 120,000 mg of THC would meet the ld50 for a 208 pound or less individuals. That means that a 250 lbs individual might not die if they managed to ingest 150 g of hash. This is pretty impressive considering that 1 gram of hash would be generally considered a significant overdose (not dangerous, but definitely unpleasant).

Drug education can prevent drug overdoses.
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It would be possible for a rookie to accidentally ignite that much, of course acquiring that much wouldn’t be cheap.

The highest quality oil can reach 90% AFAIK.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
It would be possible for a rookie to accidentally ignite that much, of course acquiring that much wouldn’t be cheap.

The highest quality oil can reach 90% AFAIK.
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How would a rookie ignite 150 g? In a frying pan? Then how would they inhale that much? This sounds a lot like when some scientists suffocated monkeys with cannabis smoke in the 1960’s. Rookies do not spend $1500-$12,000 on oil.

If we want to protect rookies then education needs to replace prohibition.
 
SyroMalankara said:
Well, being legal and licensed brings a whole lot of government oversight. But how many moonshiners do you know lately? How about self growing tobacco rollers? How many Miller delivery guys are truckjacked in your town? I’m sure there are some, but legalizing and organizing these has pretty much destroyed any incentive to be outside the mainstream either due to convenience or enforcement. It will take a few years, but it is proven effective. Heck, I’m in one of the largest cities in the US, with pockets of ridiculously high crime, but I’ve not heard a report of a beer truck heist in my lifetime and those delivery guys usually leave their truck wide open with the beer in full view while delivering.
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denver.cbslocal.com/2015/03/08/man-growing-large-amount-of-marijuana-found-dead-in-routt-county-couple-arrested/

reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/2-arrested-southwest-valley-pot-grow-house-bust

8newsnow.com/story/28163169/police-bust-large-marijuana-grow-house-in-southwest-las-vegas

Ed
 
SyroMalankara said:
Not sure what those articles are supposed to be proving
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My guess? Drugs are illegal. They use lots of electricity. Power plants emit carbon which contribute to global warning.

Ergo, illegal drugs are destroying the planet. 😉
 
pnewton said:
“Rational” does not mean agreeing with you, or any one person, as a standard of what is rational. My reasoning is clear, though by no means the only reasonable conclusions. Namely, incarceration as a response to drug possession has failed to reduce drug usage, or the problems and crimes associated with drug usage. Incarcerating for any extended time for drug usage is a worsening of the situation for the individual being punished. The closest analogy, Prohibition, resulted in an increase of violent criminal activity. Therefore, trying a new approach would be in order.

What is not rational, is holding other statements as irrational without reason, or more accurately, when reasoning is being used. Agree or not, legalizing drugs can be rationalized.
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What I cannot figure out…with alcohol prohibition, it did not take long for them to realize it was not working, and it was quickly repealed, but with drug prohibition, they dont seem to recognize its not working…they cant be this blind…right?
 
I think one reason Prohibition was repealed so quickly is that it was never popular. A politician could celebrate the end of Prohibition with a beer in public. I would not look for a politician to celebrate legalization of marijuana by toking up, or the legalization of cocaine by snorting a few lines, with his constituents.

Still, I believe the evidence against the war on drugs to be overwhelming.
 
mikekle said:
What I cannot figure out…with alcohol prohibition, it did not take long for them to realize it was not working, and it was quickly repealed, but with drug prohibition, they dont seem to recognize its not working…they cant be this blind…right?
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You dont think the repeal of prohibition had anything to do with it “not working” do you? Yo cant be that naive
 
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