Crucifixion on Wednesday?

[cfrancis]

Chris,

You’re showing a little too much sēmeiōsis. Semantics are not that important here. The important thing is what Christ said:

Matt 12:40 *"For as Jonas was **three days ***and **three nights **in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Now if you want to claim just “parts” of days and nights, then please do so and fit it into your timeframe. Continuing to question me again and again on what I have answered several times is not a good way to communicate. If you’re so sure I am wrong, then why don’t you give the RCC view?

We all know that to say the “day” Monday includes the night and day, but the “day” portion of the “day” is still sunrise to sunset. The problem is that your timeframe is not Scriptural. You don’t really want to debate, you just want to discuss semantics.

Please try to answer my question…

Cal, I can, if you wish, re-post your own words that show where you have not answered this question:

**- Did Christ rise on Sunday (between Sat sunset and Sun sunrise)?

• Did Christ rise on Saturday (before Saturday sunset)?**

Shall I do that, again, or can you provide an answer to the question above?

As you know, continuing to claim you have done that which has been shown you have not done is very poor form.

EDIT: one more thing. You have not shown where Christ said He would rise “after the third day.” Every statement by Christ on this subject has Him actually saying He would rise “on the third day.”

How, in your chronology, can you have Christ rising on the third day, when your position is He spent three full days entombed?

 

[Robbinson]

Does that mean you can’t explain it either except to say that’s what the church says???

OS - the answer to this question has been given many times in this thread. Yet again, the quote from “Strongs” note cited 3 times in this thread (and the concept, cited several additional times earlier in this thread).:

“Eastern usage of this term differs from our western usage. Any part of a day is counted as a whole day, hence the expression “three days and three nights” does not mean literally three whole days, but at least one whole day plus part of two other days”

So there is no doubt what is being said - in Jewish law and by accepted understanding of word usage in the days when the gospels were written, any part of a day or night counted as an entire “day”. Thus, 3 days and 3 nights will be satisfied (the way the speaker (Jesus) meant it) if any part of 3 different days is included in the time period (e.g., crucification before sundown on Friday makes day 1; Saturday sabbath is day 2, arise anytime after sunrise on Sunday makes day 3 (meeting the "on the third day and satisifying “three days and three nights” as that phrase was used by, and understood, a Jewish speaker of that time period). This is precisely why there is no contradiction between “3 days and 3 nights” and arise “on the 3rd day” because both statement are true and can mean the same thing.

You continue to insist on a 24 hour day or treating “day” and “night” differently which is a western lense for interpreting this biblical text. This distinction was expressly made in the Strongs definition - but you chose to ignore it an adopt the alternative definition referring to day as sunrise to sunset (which Strongs notes as a definition - “today” - but expressly distinguished it from the eastern usage relevant to this very biblical text.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Old_Scholar]

OS - the answer to this question has been given many times in this thread. Yet again, the quote from “Strongs” not cited 3 times in this thread (and the concept, cited several additional times earlier in this thread).:

“Eastern usage of this term differs from our western usage. Any part of a day is counted as a whole day, hence the expression “three days and three nights” does not mean literally three whole days, but at least one whole day plus part of two other days”

So there is no doubt what is being said - in Jewish law and by accepted understanding of word usage in the days when the gospels were written, any part of a day or night counted as an entire “day”. Thus, 3 days and 3 nights will be satisfied (the way the speaker (Jesus) meant it) if any part of 3 days is included in the time period. This is precisely why there is no contradiction between “3 days and 3 nights” and arise “on the 3rd day” because both statement are true and can mean the same thing.

You continue to insist on a 24 hour day or treating “day” and “night” differently which is a western lense for interpreting this biblical text. This distinction was expressly made in the Strongs definition - but you chose to ignore it an adopt the alternative definition referring to day as sunrise to sunset (which Strongs notes as a definition - “today” - but expressly distinguished it from the eastern usage relevant to this very biblical text.

Blessings,

Brian

Tell me again when was the third night? Or even a part of it???

 

[Old_Scholar]

Cal, I can, if you wish, re-post your own words that show where you have not answered this question:

In order to fit, I have had to eliminate your questions. Please read them in your post.

Chris, you are the one that has been making a big deal out of three “full” days and nights. ** I have agreed to listen to any explanation you may have that places Christ in the ground for any portion of a third night but you just can’t fit it in with a Friday crucifixion. ** You are trying so hard to prove the church’s position is correct that you ignore Scripture, the only real truth we have.

If Christ arose a few minutes prior to the end of the weekly Sabbath, I would have no problem with that. If He arose a few minutes after then I would have no problem with that. Truth is we don’t know for sure so the only legitimate authority we have is Scripture so we have to go there. Whether He rose “on” the third day or “after” the third is not nearly so important as believing what He said and the fact that He rose.

I will give you my chronology, with Scriptures, one more time and then I will move to another post. I suspect we will go over all this again come Easter anyhow. I hope you will follow this through fully and look up the Scriptures if you believe I have not listed them correctly before you start trying to tear them down.

One more time, according to Scripture.

Mark 12:40 “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

So let’s see if Scripture confirms what Christ says.

Mark 15:42 “It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached,”

We are told it was the day before a Sabbath. Jesus was now dead and Joseph of Arimathaea requested his body in order to place Him in the tomb before the coming Sabbath. This is also when **Nicodemus used one hundred pounds of spices **and ointments and wrapped Jesus for burial in the tomb.

Luke 23:55 “And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56) And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment.”

Here we are plainly told that the women prepared the spices and ointments and then rested on the Sabbath. They could not have purchased the spices before the Thursday Sabbath after they saw Jesus in the tomb because He was placed there just prior to sundown.

Mark 16:1 “When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body.”

Now we are told that other women, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Salome also **bought spices after the Sabbath. ** This had to be done on Friday, the day between the Sabbaths because otherwise, the women would have had to purchase and then prepare the spices on the Sabbath but we know that Sabbath was over. Where could they purchase spices and ointments after sundown on Saturday and prepare them and still get to the tomb before daybreak? To have purchased them before then would have them purchasing them on the Sabbath and Scripture says it was “after” the Sabbath. They had Friday to purchase and prepare the spices and then had to wait until the weekly Sabbath was over. It would have been against the commandments of God to either purchase or prepare spices on the Sabbath.

Scripture is quite clear on this if you will only read it.

The only explanation that does not violate the Biblical account of the women and the spices and still holds to a literal understanding of Matthew 12:40 is that **Christ was crucified on Wednesday **as I have related here. The Sabbath that was a high holy day (Passover) occurred on Thursday, which was the 15th of Nisan. **The women purchased spices after that day, after the Sabbath as Scripture states, prepared them on Friday, the same day, and then rested on the weekly Sabbath as Scripture states. ** He was buried on Wednesday, the 14th day of Nisan near sunset, which began the 15th of Nisan, a Sabbath high holy day.

He was in the grave therefore Thursday night, then Thursday day, and the complete day 1. Then at sunset on Thursday, the Sabbath was over and Friday night began at sunset and then the day and that makes two full days and nights in the ground. At sunset Friday, the weekly Sabbath began and Christ was in the ground Saturday night and then Saturday day and that completed the third night and day.

We do not know exactly what time He arose but it was probably near sunset, to be said either “on the third day” or **“after the third day.” ** Had God wanted us to know the time for sure, I feel certain Scripture would have provided it. It is obvious however, at least to someone who actually follows the Scriptures that this is the only timeframe that fits Scripture.

We do know however that He was gone when the women reached the tomb.

John 20:1 “Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.”

 

[benedictus2]

Sorry about the length but there is no other way I can answer such a lengthy post and show what I am answering. You are beginning to repeat questions and statements I have already answered.

Okay, going by your response, the chronology looks like this:

14 Nissan - Tue (night) - Wed (day) - Passover meal, crucifixion, death burial.
15 Nissan - Wed(night) to Thur (day) - Feast of Unleavened Bread - High Sabbath
16 Nissan - Thur (night) to Fri(day) - 2nd day of feast, preparation day for weekly sabbath
17 Nissan- Fri (night) to Sat (day) - Weekly Sabbath
18 Nissan - Sat (night) to Sun (day) - 1st day of the week.

Now you agreed with me that any chronology should satisfy the following point:

• Jesus had the Passover meal with his disciples.
• Jesus died on the afternoon of a preparation day.
• The day after Jesus’s death is a Sabbath.
• The women could not anoint Jesus because of the Sabbath so waited for the Sabbath to be over
• When the women came back to anoint Jesus, it was the first day of the week, a Sunday.

But if you look at the chronology above, then the women should have gone to the tomb on Friday. But they did not. They came to the tomb on Sunday. And if you agree that they did come to the tomd on Sunday, then that means they would have allowed 2 sabbaths to pass when it is clear from the synoptic gospels that they only allowed one sabbath to pass which was a Sat.

Because we are told, by Scripture, that they had to buy and prepare the spices and ointments. They did that on Friday, the day between Sabbaths.

But this is only becuase you keep mixing your gospel accounts. As I have said before you cannot mix up John’s timeline with that of the synoptics.

For one thing, John does not say that the Mary Magdala came to the tomb to annoint him. There was no need because Nicodemus has already anointed him.

But the other 3 gospels are very clear about this: the women could not annoint the Body of the Lord because it was almost Sabbath and they had to allow that to pass before they could do it. If I were to go by your account, it would seem that they allowed the High Sabbath to pass, prepared the spices on Friday then rested on Saturday and then came to the tomb on Sunday.

There is no way you can get that sort of chronology from the synoptics. That only happens because you mix up your gospels which as I keep saying, you just cannot do. So stick with Matthew because that is the account which has the 3 days and 3 nights.

My timeline satisfies all those things. We also have to satisfy Christ’s own words and yours does not do that. You are ignoring Leviticus and that can’t be done either.

As I have shown above, your timeline just does not satisfy the 5 points you agreed to.

With the 100 pounds of spices Nicodemus placed with Jesus in the tomb when He was first placed there, He would not need any more spices until the time the women went to the tomb.

You are **assuming **something here which is not in John’s gospel. Nowhere does it say Mary Magdalene came to the tomb to anoint him. There was no mention of the women preparing the spices, because as far as John is concerned, Jesus has already been anointed by Nicodemus.

Please stop mixing choronologies between the evangelists.

As a last note. You are quite wrong with the timing of the Passover Meal. The Seder is eaten on 15 Nissan not 14 Nissan.

I would suggest you ask a Rabbi or a devout Jew or even just do a little bit more reasearch than just Lev23.

Here are a few Passover links;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover

http://www.jewfaq.org/holidaya.htm

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_date_is_the_seder_eaten

 

[cfrancis]

Chris, you are the one that has been making a big deal out of three “full” days and nights. ** I have agreed to listen to any explanation you may have that places Christ in the ground for any portion of a third night but you just can’t fit it in with a Friday crucifixion. ** You are trying so hard to prove the church’s position is correct that you ignore Scripture, the only real truth we have.

Cal, my “making a big deal out of the three ‘full’ days and nights” was to show the inconsistency in your use of the word “day” in your position; I believe I did that. I do thank you for providing clarification re: the resurrection.

If Christ arose a few minutes prior to the end of the weekly Sabbath, I would have no problem with that. If He arose a few minutes after then I would have no problem with that. Truth is we don’t know for sure so the only legitimate authority we have is Scripture so we have to go there. Whether He rose “on” the third day or “after” the third is not nearly so important as believing what He said and the fact that He rose.

Thankfully, we do not need to guess as to when Christ arose; Scripture does tell us.

Apart from Christ’s own words re: His rising “on the third day” provided in post #100, we have these specific statements:
1 Corinthians 15:4
and that He was buried,** and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures**,
Acts 10:40
" **God raised Him up on the third day **and granted that He become visible,

There is no doubt from Scripture that Christ rose “on the third day” and not “after three days”.

The “after three days” statements do not come from Christ’s mouth. Mt 27:63 shows the Pharisees speaking these words; Mk 8:31 shows the evangelist writing these words.

Your position re: the resurrection appears to be either on Saturday or Sunday:

At sunset Friday, the weekly Sabbath began and Christ was in the ground Saturday night and then Saturday day and that completed the third night and day.

We do not know exactly what time He arose but it was probably near sunset, to be said either “on the third day” or **“after the third day.” ** Had God wanted us to know the time for sure, I feel certain Scripture would have provided it. It is obvious however, at least to someone who actually follows the Scriptures that this is the only timeframe that fits Scripture.

Following Scripture, we know for certain Christ rose on the third day, not after the third day (see Scripture above). That means, according to your position, Christ rose before sunset on Saturday, i.e, **a Saturday resurrection, not a Sunday resurrection. **

Accepting your position, in your own words, that “three day and three nights” means three full days and three full nights, your position excludes a rising on the third day, as you would not then have 3 full days.

That means your position is a resurrection “after three days” placing the resurrection on the Sunday (some time after sunset on Saturday and before sunrise on Sunday).
But this means He rose on the 4th day, which contradicts Christ’s own words and the witness of Scripture.

Just looking at the resurrection portion of your position, I do not see it following and aligning with Scripture.

 

[Old_Scholar]

Cal, my “making a big deal out of the three ‘full’ days and nights” was to show the inconsistency in your use of the word “day” in your position; I believe I did that. I do thank you for providing clarification re: the resurrection.Thankfully, we do not need to guess as to when Christ arose; Scripture does tell us.

Apart from Christ’s own words re: His rising “on the third day” provided in post #100, we have these specific statements:
1 Corinthians 15:4
and that He was buried,** and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures**,
Acts 10:40
" **God raised Him up on the third day **and granted that He become visible,

There is no doubt from Scripture that Christ rose “on the third day” and not “after three days”.

The “after three days” statements do not come from Christ’s mouth. Mt 27:63 shows the Pharisees speaking these words; Mk 8:31 shows the evangelist writing these words.

Your position re: the resurrection appears to be either on Saturday or Sunday:
Following Scripture, we know for certain Christ rose on the third day, not after the third day (see Scripture above). That means, according to your position, Christ rose before sunset on Saturday, i.e, **a Saturday resurrection, not a Sunday resurrection. **

Accepting your position, in your own words, that “three day and three nights” means three full days and three full nights, your position excludes a rising on the third day, as you would not then have 3 full days.

That means your position is a resurrection “after three days” placing the resurrection on the Sunday (some time after sunset on Saturday and before sunrise on Sunday).
But this means He rose on the 4th day, which contradicts Christ’s own words and the witness of Scripture.

Just looking at the resurrection portion of your position, I do not see it following and aligning with Scripture.

Since I listed it very carefully, Scriptures and all, I would normally ask you to show me where I am wrong with Scripture. But I believe we are going nowhere with this thread. No one want to believe Scripture and that’s sad.

 

[benedictus2]

Since I listed it very carefully, Scriptures and all, I would normally ask you to show me where I am wrong with Scripture. But I believe we are going nowhere with this thread. No one want to believe Scripture and that’s sad.

Sorry but we all believe Scripture. We just don’t believe YOUR OWN interpretation of it. I think people have shown enough facts based on Scripture which you have failed to truly address.

The problem is you get your evangelists all mixed up. You fail to realize that their accounts differ and that you cannot just insert an assumption you made from John into a chronology based on Matthew.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Is there anything in scripture to contradict this:

According to this view, Wednesday of that week was the High Sabbath, the first day of the passover. Can this be refuted from scripture?

---

Hi Neil, that Sabbath was not Wednesday. As the text itself says,
it just happened that that Sabbath was a solemn feast day. As we
say here in Israel, a Shabbaton; I mean, when a festival falls on the Sabbath.

Ben: <*)))><

 

[po18guy]

Cal, before I move on to the Quartodeciman Controversy, I just want to, again, clarify that your position is Christ was Crucified on Wednesday and raised on the 4th day, Sunday (sometime b/n Saturday 6PM and Sunday 6AM).

Interesting point, since the math would not add up, either by ancient Hebrew standards, or the words of Christ.

 

[benedictus2]

---

Hi Neil, that Sabbath was not Wednesday. As the text itself says,
it just happened that that Sabbath was a solemn feast day. As we
say here in Israel, a Shabbaton; I mean, when a festival falls on the Sabbath.

Ben: <*)))><

Hi Ben,

Can you clarify something for me.

Is the Seder eaten on the night of 14 Nissan or the night of 15 Nissan?

Also, is 14 Nissan Passover or is it just a Preparation day to the Passover? I have checked the internet and all of them says that Passover begins on 15 Nissan but Lev23 says that Passover is on 14 Nissan.

Your help would be very much appreicated…

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hi Ben, Can you clarify something for me. Is the Seder eaten on the night of 14 Nissan or the night of 15 Nissan? Also, is 14 Nissan Passover or is it just a Preparation day to the Passover? I have checked the internet and all of them says that Passover begins on 15 Nissan but Lev23 says that Passover is on 14 Nissan.

---

Yes Benedictus, the pleasure is all mine. The Seder meal is eaten on the night of 14 of Nissan. Passover starts
only at the sunset of 14 of Nissan. The whole day of 14 of Nissan is a day of preparation for the Passover, which begins at sunset.

There is to you a small misunderstanding with regards to Leviticus 23 when you consider the “holy convocation” in v. 7. That’s to be distinguished from the Seder meal on the 14 of Nissan, when you are allowed to do all kind of servile work. The solemn convocation is on the 15 of Nissan, already within the Festival of Passover when no work is to be done. That’s
the Shabbaton we are talking about, when the 15 of Nissan of that year fell on the Sabbath. I hope I have been of some help. Shalom.

Ben: <*)))><

 

[po18guy]

For the Jewish people, Friday began with sundown on Thursday, Saturday begain on sundown on Friday, Sunday began on sundown on Saturday . From this it appears that Jesus was dead for three days. From what I could gather, Jesus was then resurreccted on Sunday, after sundown. This would account for the words, “on the third day he arose from the dead”.

I hope I got this right. It probably could be stated better by someone more in the know than I am.

Stop making sense! Of course, I’m no scholar, self-appointed or otherwise.

 

[benedictus2]

---

Yes Benedictus, the pleasure is all mine. The Seder meal is eaten on the night of 14 of Nissan. Passover starts
only at the sunset of 14 of Nissan. The whole day of 14 of Nissan is a day of preparation for the Passover, which begins at sunset.

There is to you a small misunderstanding with regards to Leviticus 23 when you consider the “holy convocation” in v. 7. That’s to be distinguished from the Seder meal on the 14 of Nissan, when you are allowed to do all kind of servile work. The solemn convocation is on the 15 of Nissan, already within the Festival of Passover when no work is to be done. That’s
the Shabbaton we are talking about, when the 15 of Nissan of that year fell on the Sabbath. I hope I have been of some help. Shalom.

Ben: <*)))><

Thanks so very much for that.

But just to make sure that I understand you correctly, you mean here the night not the eve?

So for example if we say that 15 Nissan is a Thursday, that would mean it starts say from 18:00 of Wed to 17:99 of Thursday.

So technically if you eat the Seder on the night of 14 Nissan you are really eating it on the 15th because the 15th starts from 18:00 unless you eat it at around say 17:30 of 14 Nissan. Did I get that right?

Sorry to be this nitpicky about this but I am trying to get the chronology organized in my head.

 

[benedictus2]

---

Yes Benedictus, the pleasure is all mine. The Seder meal is eaten on the night of 14 of Nissan. Passover starts
only at the sunset of 14 of Nissan. The whole day of 14 of Nissan is a day of preparation for the Passover, which begins at sunset.

There is to you a small misunderstanding with regards to Leviticus 23 when you consider the “holy convocation” in v. 7. That’s to be distinguished from the Seder meal on the 14 of Nissan, when you are allowed to do all kind of servile work. The solemn convocation is on the 15 of Nissan, already within the Festival of Passover when no work is to be done. That’s
the Shabbaton we are talking about, when the 15 of Nissan of that year fell on the Sabbath. I hope I have been of some help. Shalom.

Ben: <*)))><

Hi Ben,

Can you check this chronology and see if that would make sense from the Jewish perspective.

Based on the information you provided it would seem that 15 Nissan fell on a Friday so you have two consecutive Sabbaths, one being on 15 Nissan which was a Friday followed by the Saturday Sabbath.

So it would seem that Jesus died on the day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread or as you say on the solemn convocation on the 15th

14 Nissan Thurs night / eve of 15 Nissan - Passover meal
15 Nissan Friday (day) - Feast of Unleavened bread - High Sabath, crucifixion, death and burial
16 Nissan Sat - Sabbath
17 Nissan - 1st day of the week Sunday.

 

[cfrancis]

Since I listed it very carefully, Scriptures and all, I would normally ask you to show me where I am wrong with Scripture. But I believe we are going nowhere with this thread. No one want to believe Scripture and that’s sad.

I’ll gladly show you the Scriptural basis for my comments on the resurrection. I do want to say that my contention with your position has focused solely on the resurrection; I’ve not addressed, nor attempted to address, the chronology before the resurrection.

There are clearly two points of reference re: the resurrection:

• before Christ rose
  and
• after Christ rose.

BEFORE THE RESURRECTION
Christ Himself spoke about His resurrection directly:
Matthew 16:21
Jesus Foretells His Death ] From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day.
Matthew 17:22-23
22 And while they were gathering together in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men;
23 and they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day.” And they were deeply grieved.
Matthew 20:18-19
18 “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death,
19 and will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up.”
Luke 9:22
saying, " The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed and be raised up on the third day."
Luke 18:32-33
32 “For He will be handed over to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon,
33 and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again.”
Luke 24:6-7
6 “He is not here, but He has risen Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee,
7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.”
Luke 24:46
and He said to them, " Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
Mark 9:31
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, " The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later."
Mark 10:34
“They will mock Him and spit on Him, and scourge Him and kill Him, and three days later He will rise again.”

Christ is explicit re: when He will rise from the dead.
There are two examples of “after the third day” being used WRT His resurrection:
Matthew 27:62-64
62 Now on the next day, the day after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate,
63 and said, "Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.’
64 “Therefore, give orders for the grave to be made secure until the third day, otherwise His disciples may come and steal Him away and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last deception will be worse than the first.”
Mark 8:31
And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
What’s interesting about these is:

1. in Matthew, the Pharisees are speaking about Christ’s claim; yet we see that Jesus never said in Scripture “'After three days I am to rise again.”
2. in Mark, this is narrative, not a direct quote. Again, we see Jesus did not say in Scripture that He would rise after three days.

Each quote from Christ Himself re: His resurrection has it occurring on the third day, not after three days, not the fourth day.

AFTER THE RESURRECTION
There are two explicit statements re: the day Christ rose from the dead:
1 Corinthians 15:4
and that He was buried,** and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures**,
Acts 10:40
" **God raised Him up on the third day **and granted that He become visible,

For the sake of argument, ignoring Christ’s clear and explicit words before HIs resurrection, let’s say there are two competing positions for Christ’s resurrection stated before the event:

1. on the third day
2. after three days

The evidence provided by Scripture itself resolves any apparent issue by the explicit statements in 1 Cor and Acts: Christ rose on the third day.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hi Ben, Can you check this chronology and see if that would make sense from the Jewish perspective.Based on the information you provided it would seem that 15 Nissan fell on a Friday so you have two consecutive Sabbaths, one being on 15 Nissan which was a Friday followed by the Saturday Sabbath.So it would seem that Jesus died on the day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread or as you say on the solemn convocation on the 15th14 Nissan Thurs night / eve of 15 Nissan - Passover meal15 Nissan Friday (day) - Feast of Unleavened bread - High Sabath, crucifixion, death and burial16 Nissan Sat - Sabbath17 Nissan - 1st day of the week Sunday.

---

Benedictus, where are you? Outside of Israel somewhere, where you can’t compare Jewish things. Outside of Israel, festivals must be celebrated on a double. In Israel, all festivals are single. Ask any Jew you meet in the Diaspora. The 14th of Nissan that year that Jesus died was Friday. Then, 15th of Nissan was Saturday.

The solemn convocation happens in the Synagogue. In Jerusalem it was in the Temple. The Seder or Passover meal occurred on the 14th of Nissan at the homes of the Jews. The special day was that Sabbath or Shabbaton, which was 15th of Nissan. Got it now?

Ben:

 

[benedictus2]

---

Benedictus, where are you? Outside of Israel somewhere, where you can’t compare Jewish things. Outside of Israel, festivals must be celebrated on a double. In Israel, all festivals are single. Ask any Jew you meet in the Diaspora. The 14th of Nissan that year that Jesus died was Friday. Then, 15th of Nissan was Saturday.

The solemn convocation happens in the Synagogue. In Jerusalem it was in the Temple. The Seder or Passover meal occurred on the 14th of Nissan at the homes of the Jews. The special day was that Sabbath or Shabbaton, which was 15th of Nissan. Got it now?

Ben:

Hi Ben, I am in Melbourne Australia. Thank you for getting back to me.

I am trying to work out based on the Bible accounts the actual timing of events before and after the crucifixion.

My confusion is this. When Jesus died, He shared the passover meal with his disciples at night and in the morning he was arrested, crucified at 3 pm then buried. So all these happened within 24 hours.

The sequencing from the passover is what has got me confused (I am getting rather dense in my old age).

If you say that the year Jesus died 14 Nissan was a Friday and 15 Nissan the Sabbath, then the Seder must have been eaten on the EVE of 14 Nissan which makes it the night of 13 Nissan. Is that correct?

Also, why are there websites that say that the Seder is eaten on 15 Nissan? Is it different for those ouside of Isrrael?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hi Ben, I am in Melbourne Australia. Thank you for getting back to me.

I am trying to work out based on the Bible accounts the actual timing of events before and after the crucifixion.

My confusion is this. When Jesus died, He shared the passover meal with his disciples at night and in the morning he was arrested, crucified at 3 pm then buried. So all these happened within 24 hours.

The sequencing from the passover is what has got me confused (I am getting rather dense in my old age).

If you say that the year Jesus died 14 Nissan was a Friday and 15 Nissan the Sabbath, then the Seder must have been eaten on the EVE of 14 Nissan which makes it the night of 13 Nissan. Is that correct?

Also, why are there websites that say that the Seder is eaten on 15 Nissan? Is it different for those ouside of Isrrael?

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Benedictus, the Gospels were written outside Israel by non-Jews who, ill-informed, found convenient to settle Jesus celebrating his Passover on the first day of the Diaspora Passover as if it were the same as in Israel. But no, it’s different.

It all indicates that Jesus didn’t even have his chance to celebrate his Passover meal that Friday. As you know, I am sure, everything was written 50+ years after Jesus had been gone. Who would give himself the job to verify anything. Even Paul, who was aware of the truth wouldn’t bother correct anything as long as
he promoted his Christian Cause.

Take a look at Mark 14:12. “On the first day of unleavened bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the passover lamb…” This first day of unleavened bread is the 15th of Nissan, which fell on that special Sabbath. That’s when the passover lamb was sacrificed during the solemn convocation in the Temple. The 14th of Nissan
is never the first day of unleavened bread. This is the day of the Passover meal, which is only once in Israel. In the diaspora are two. So, the gospel writer set Jesus celebrating his passover meal
on the first 14th of Nissan as if Jesus was not in Israel. I can relate to that for two reasons: First, he wrote from abroad, and second, he needed to match Jesus with the three days of Jonas in the belly of the whale. You know, plagialism of the Scriptures. Things do get complicated.

Ben

 

[benedictus2]

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Benedictus, the Gospels were written outside Israel by non-Jews who, ill-informed, found convenient to settle Jesus celebrating his Passover on the first day of the Diaspora Passover as if it were the same as in Israel. But no, it’s different.

It all indicates that Jesus didn’t even have his chance to celebrate his Passover meal that Friday. As you know, I am sure, everything was written 50+ years after Jesus had been gone. Who would give himself the job to verify anything. Even Paul, who was aware of the truth wouldn’t bother correct anything as long as
he promoted his Christian Cause.

Take a look at Mark 14:12. “On the first day of unleavened bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the passover lamb…” This first day of unleavened bread is the 15th of Nissan, which fell on that special Sabbath. That’s when the passover lamb was sacrificed during the solemn convocation in the Temple. The 14th of Nissan
is never the first day of unleavened bread. This is the day of the Passover meal, which is only once in Israel. In the diaspora are two. So, the gospel writer set Jesus celebrating his passover meal
on the first 14th of Nissan as if Jesus was not in Israel. I can relate to that for two reasons: First, he wrote from abroad, and second, he needed to match Jesus with the three days of Jonas in the belly of the whale. You know, plagialism of the Scriptures. Things do get complicated.

Ben

Now that is definitely more complicated than I thought. Thank you very much for your help.

Perhaps John’s account is more historical after all because in his gospel the Last Supper is not a Seder and was eaten before the passover.