Cruz Thread

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Lily_Bernans said:
I didn’t know you could read minds. Beyond strange. LOL

You aren’t going to bully me into changing. I believe abortion should be legal in the US. I accept Harry Blackmun’s reasoning. I support pro-choice candidates. If you can’t deal with it, don’t post to me. 🤷
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One really can’t expect to come in to a Catholic site and repeatedly promote abortionists politically and expect no responses to it, any more than one could go onto a Baptist site, attack “once saved always saved” and expect no response.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Carpet bombing is infinitely worse than abortion…
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Of course it isn’t.

“Carpet bombing” according to most understandings of it is where the enemy is in a particular location where civilians could also be or are even known to be, and the place is bombed with a thoroughness that’s likely to kill nearly everyone there, with the bombing party accepting collateral damage as part of the price of killing the enemy.

Abortion is targeting the innocent, and only the innocent, not as collateral damage but as the point of the whole exercise. It’s like dropping leaflets to ISIS telling them the place will be carpet bombed in 24 hours and to get out so only civilians will be killed.

Big difference.
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
You just said you support the legality of it. You just said Blackmun’s decision was good law.:confused:
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One might support abortion on demand for any number of reasons, but the reasoning in Roe shouldn’t be one of them. It’s confused and meandering and vague. It purports to give guidelines but then doesn’t. Even arch-abortionist Justice Ginsburg approves the result but says Roe is poorly reasoned.
 
I find it very ironic for people who voted for Obama twice to try and change another’s mind about voting for either hillary or sanders.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
He’s ignorant of what carpet bombing is. We’ve established that. That’s almost worse in a presidential candidate than actually wanting carpet bombing! :rolleyes:
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Perhaps he meant sniper fire… oh wait, that was Hilary
 
queenofheartscv said:
I find it very ironic for people who voted for Obama twice to try and change another’s mind about voting for either hillary or sanders.
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Is this aimed at me…? Just in case…

For the record, I am not trying to change anyone’s mind about anything. (as stated above, I don’t care who anyone votes for - it is none of my business; perhaps I am somewhat naive in expecting the same courtesy from others)

I just questioned the premise that indiscriminate bombing is somehow “much more evil” than legal abortion - never got an answer on that one.

And, no, I don’t support legal abortion. I don’t think Planned Parenthood “does great things.”

Nor do I deny that both parties have portions of their platforms that are not in accordance with Catholic teaching. I have stated this numerous times, on this and other threads. I am voting GOP this time - they have problems too. I have talked about this at length.

But I have yet to come across a Trump supporter who responsibly discusses Trump’s squishy stand on abortion…there are plenty of prominent conservative Catholics who have discussed in length the very problematic nature of Trump’s ambiguity on this issue, and, as a result, support Ted Cruz.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Is this aimed at me…? Just in case…

For the record, I am not trying to change anyone’s mind about anything. (as stated above, I don’t care who anyone votes for - it is none of my business; perhaps I am somewhat naive in expecting the same courtesy from others)

I just questioned the premise that indiscriminate bombing is somehow “much more evil” than legal abortion - never got an answer on that one.

And, no, I don’t support legal abortion. I don’t think Planned Parenthood “does great things.”

Nor do I deny that both parties have portions of their platforms that are not in accordance with Catholic teaching. I have stated this numerous times, on this and other threads. I am voting GOP this time - they have problems too. I have talked about this at length.

But I have yet to come across a Trump supporter who responsibly discusses Trump’s squishy stand on abortion…there are plenty of prominent conservative Catholics who have discussed in length the very problematic nature of Trump’s ambiguity on this issue, and, as a result, support Ted Cruz.
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If abortion is so important to you, how come you voted for Obama twice?

If you experienced a change of mind, that would have come later than Trump’s change of heart on abortion.

IMO, Cruz is a fake tele-evangelist who tries to sound the right chord for the group he is wooing.
 
queenofheartscv said:
If abortion is so important to you, how come you voted for Obama twice?

If you experienced a change of mind, that would have come later than Trump’s change of heart on abortion.

IMO, Cruz is a fake tele-evangelist who tries to sound the right chord for the group he is wooing.
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Because Sarah Palin was a lunatic; she was not fit to govern the country; the fact that she was on the ticket said a lot about McCain, all bad. She reminds me of Trump in that regard. I am not a single issue voter. I think you can genuinely oppose abortion and vote Democrat. I support national health care (just like Trump and Sanders and Clinton!). I also support Obama on the environment. I vote for a candidate I believe to be the best qualified candidate in a particular race on a plurality of issues. I am an independent. I don’t regret voting for Obama in 2008; I do regret voting for him in 2012. (I did that because of Romney’s 47% comment, and Paul Ryan’s budget, also, frankly because Romney was a Mormon.)

I have not supported abortion personally for 20 years. And I don’t think Planned Parenthood does great things - and I think Trump is completely, openly lying about his position on this issue - and I think many of his supporters know this but don’t care, because, they too do not care about this issue enough to vote for a real prolife candidate. (he may personally be prolife but he has no intention of alienating his moderate East coast support, or large numbers of women across the country, women Trump desperately needs to win) In fact, many many Trumpers are prochoice, aka New York values. See Scott Brown, Giuliani. Planned Parenthood is terrified of Cruz, not Trump, for a reason. They are not stupid.
 
queenofheartscv said:
If abortion is so important to you, how come you voted for Obama twice?

If you experienced a change of mind, that would have come later than Trump’s change of heart on abortion.

IMO, Cruz is a fake tele-evangelist who tries to sound the right chord for the group he is wooing.
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👍 I’ll take Trump any day. Any day.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Carpet bombing is infinitely worse than abortion. Or are you saying it’s fine to kill a pregnant woman or a child if it’s through carpet bombing?
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That’s a pretty strong statement, Lily. Are you sure you want to take it that far? I’m not inclined to say that killing one group of people is better or worse than killing another group of people. About all we could say is which action kills more innocent people. And the answer to that is abortion. I’m not sure I understand why you think carpet bombing is “infinitely worse.”

I’m certainly not trying to justify carpet bombing or any other such war crimes. Nor has anyone else said or implied that “it’s fine to kill a pregnant woman or a child if it’s through carpet bombing.” Such an accusation may be successful at painting pro-life people as uncaring monsters, but it’s an accusation based on emotion, not on the facts. 🤷
 
Joe_5859 said:
That’s a pretty strong statement, Lily. Are you sure you want to take it that far? I’m not inclined to say that killing one group of people is better or worse than killing another group of people. About all we could say is which action kills more innocent people. And the answer to that is abortion. I’m not sure I understand why you think carpet bombing is “infinitely worse.”

I’m certainly not trying to justify carpet bombing or any other such war crimes. Nor has anyone else said or implied that “it’s fine to kill a pregnant woman or a child if it’s through carpet bombing.” Such an accusation may be successful at painting pro-life people as uncaring monsters, but it’s an accusation based on emotion, not on the facts. 🤷
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I appreciate you non-emotional, polite response.

Okay, I can accept that, Joe. But are you comparing nearly 50 years of abortion with one day of carpet bombing? Or one day of abortion with one day of carpet bombing? I’ll agree that both are horrible. And I’ll retract “infinitely,” which I realize I used as hyperbole rather than fact.

But that still leaves the problem that Ted Cruz, a senator, didn’t know what carpet bombing was. A lot of people were confused by his statements until he clarified them when asked. And I don’t know what would be worse: a president who would actually carpet bomb, or a president who doesn’t really know what carpet bombing is. Because if he doesn’t know what carpet bombing is, then what else isn’t he clear on?
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Because Sarah Palin was a lunatic; she was not fit to govern the country; the fact that she was on the ticket said a lot about McCain, all bad. She reminds me of Trump in that regard. I am not a single issue voter. I think you can genuinely oppose abortion and vote Democrat. I support national health care (just like Trump and Sanders and Clinton!). I also support Obama on the environment. I vote for a candidate I believe to be the best qualified candidate in a particular race on a plurality of issues. I am an independent. I don’t regret voting for Obama in 2008; I do regret voting for him in 2012. (I did that because of Romney’s 47% comment, and Paul Ryan’s budget, also, frankly because Romney was a Mormon.)

I have not supported abortion personally for 20 years. And I don’t think Planned Parenthood does great things - and I think Trump is completely, openly lying about his position on this issue - and I think many of his supporters know this but don’t care, because, they too do not care about this issue enough to vote for a real prolife candidate. (he may personally be prolife but he has no intention of alienating his moderate East coast support, or large numbers of women across the country, women Trump desperately needs to win) In fact, many many Trumpers are prochoice, aka New York values. See Scott Brown, Giuliani. Planned Parenthood is terrified of Cruz, not Trump, for a reason. They are not stupid.
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Kind of amazing how much the 47% comment hurt Romney. Or perhaps it shouldn’t be amazing, just an illustration of the media’s power. (And conversely they can whitewash another candidate’s comments.)
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
You just said you support the legality of it. You just said Blackmun’s decision was good law.:confused:
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Personally, I don’t support it, Mary, but I think the US Constitution supports its legality. Blackmun explained that well. And I don’t think overturning Roe v Wade is the way to rid the US of abortion. People had abortions prior to Roe v Wade. The way to overcome it is to teach children the sanctity of ALL life as soon as they are able to learn.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
And I don’t know what would be worse: a president who would actually carpet bomb, or a president who doesn’t really know what carpet bombing is.
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Maybe you should think about it. At least if you hope to have any kind of credibility.
 
Peter_J said:
Maybe you should think about it. At least if you hope to have any kind of credibility.
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I’m not concerned with my credibility. People who like me, will, people who don’t, won’t, and there’s not a thing I can do about it. 🤷

I certainly don’t want a president who condones carpet bombing, but I do want one who knows what it is.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Personally, I don’t support it, Mary, but I think the US Constitution supports its legality. Blackmun explained that well. And I don’t think overturning Roe v Wade is the way to rid the US of abortion. People had abortions prior to Roe v Wade. The way to overcome it is to teach children the sanctity of ALL life as soon as they are able to learn.
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You’re right, because that has worked so well with homicide, murder, rape, theft, speeding, tax evasion, jay walking, and removing the tags from mattresses…
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
You’re right, because that has worked so well with homicide, murder, rape, theft, speeding, tax evasion, jay walking, and removing the tags from mattresses…
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Well, of course it hasn’t because most parents - and I said most, not all - do not teach their children much of anything at all, let alone the sanctity of life.

I know. Those kids, which are now in their late teens and early twenties, are in my classes, and some of them don’t know the first thing about their own Catholic faith. They tell me their parents have “sleep in Sundays” rather then go to church.

People grow up with religious values, or they don’t.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Well, of course it hasn’t because most parents - and I said most, not all - do not teach their children much of anything at all, let alone the sanctity of life.

I know. Those kids, which are now in their late teens and early twenties, are in my classes, and some of them don’t know the first thing about their own Catholic faith. They tell me their parents have “sleep in Sundays” rather then go to church.

People grow up with religious values, or they don’t.
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It’s not just parents, though. Schools play a huge role in shaping the morality and values system of a young person. Sex education in public schools is very harmful, IMO.
 
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