Crystal Cathedral board endorses offer from Diocese of Orange

[ElToro]

If they bought the land, tore down the Crystal Cathedral and built a Gothic architecture church I would be happy. Wouldn’t bet on it, but we can dream.

Gothic architecture in California? LOL!!

California Mission!!

 

[ElToro]

Aside from the fact that it’s hideous?

I just don’t see this as an appropriate space for Holy Mass. The entire structure would be nothing but a distraction.

~Liza

To YOU it’s “hideous.” That’s your subjective opinion – one of many.

I don’t think I have ever read anything negative in an objective review from any design professional on I.M. Pei’s creation in Garden Grove. That’s not true of othe cathedrals but it is of this one.

To many it’s a wonderful edifice and the campus is amazing. The only thing wrong with the campus is it gives you the feeling of “sheesh, they sure spent a lot on this place.” At $50M it would be a bargain.

 

[ElToro]

**there’s also something to be said for the possibility of evangelism here. **the crystal cathedral, whatever you might think of it, is a landmark and up until now, one of the most famous protestant churches in america. A large number of protestant tourists would likely continue to come visit the cathedral, and i would imagine that this would put a good number of people inside a catholic church (where they could inquire about the faith) for the very first time. It would also be difficult to overlook the symbolism of catholicism taking control of an important protestant landmark.

b i n g o ! !

 

[ElToro]

Nope. Garden Grove is just a few miles from the ocean (never gets too hot outside in the first place), the glass is mostly reflective and several windows automatically open on a thermostat to let the breeze through whenever it does start to warm up inside.

Actually, they had to add a heating system for the winter months (though it is minimal).

Nope.

Without natural convection as part of the design (a HUGE amount of outside air naturally gets pulled inside as the hot air rises and escapes from the top) that place would be unusable. GG is not always cool. It hits triple digits during the summer.

 

[psr13]

Nope.

Without natural convection as part of the design (a HUGE amount of outside air naturally gets pulled inside as the hot air rises and escapes from the top) that place would be unusable. GG is not always cool. It hits triple digits during the summer.

Not most of the summer. I grew up there, and most of the summer it’s in the 90’s.

 

[ElToro]

Not most of the summer. I grew up there, and most of the summer it’s in the 90’s.

Correct. Someone said it’s mild because it’s near the coast. That’s not really true – it can get rather warm and it does hit triple digits.

 

[ElToro]

It’s very ugly, yes. However, I highly doubt that the diocese would build a cathedral that isn’t extremely modern. If an ugly one is going to be built anyway, why not? Also, while they would not like to sell to Catholics, the church is in bankruptcy. I think the judge could force them to sell it.

All of the talk of Gothic architecture really isn’t fitting. That would be very out of place in the area. The only buildings older than the '50’s are mostly in the Spanish or what we usually call the Spanish Mission style. That would be better fitting, but it won’t happen.

Per your personal opinion it’s ugly…

California Mission would be very appropriate but I doubt it will happen.

 

[ElToro]

http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/g...arden-grove_crystal-cathedral_interior_lg.jpg

Actually, if you look at the interior, it looks like it wouldn’t take a whole lot of redesign to bring the interior into line for a Catholic Mass. The pews are oriented very similarly to a standard Catholic church (although the pool down the center aisle has to go). The organ placement isn’t really a problem. In fact, it’s supposed to be a superb organ, so that’s actually a plus. The choir location up front could be moved to the rear balcony, and everything in front of that could be removed and replaced with a standard altar and lectern setup. Large Stations of the Cross could be placed on the wall areas just underneath the balconies. The large floor-to-ceiling windows on either side of the front of the church could be replaced with stained glass. A beautiful crucifix could be hung in the gap just above the front organ pipes.

The stadium seating is great – just add kneelers. I like them better than pews, they are far more comfortable and easier on older backs. The fountain should stay – both sides of it are wide enough for a fairly serious procession. The only reason I would remove it is if it was too expensive to maintain.

The organ placement is far from optimal but it would cost $$$$ to move that world class instrument. I agree with the choir comments along with moving the grand piano. I think I would make that choir area where I would put a huge, WORLD CLASS tabernacle, topped with a crucifix. The organist would be relocated along with the choir. I would not put stations of the cross in this church. Like the Cathedral in Los Angeles I would furnish this place to focus completely on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and not a venerable tradition that can be prayed elsewhere. I would have stations elsewhere on the campus though – perhaps an outside set as well.

The stained glass would look like a horrid kludge to Phillip Johnson’s magnificent design. I would leave the cross placement as it is.

Like it or not, those who designed and furnished the Crystal Cathedral “did it right.” But they did it for another reason – a whole different sort of Christian worship. I would seek out the people who designed/specified the original furnishings and seek their professional (name removed by moderator)ut given the new demands of celebrating the Mass. Doing it wrong could really turn that place into a nightmare.

 

[Dale_M]

California Mission would be very appropriate but I doubt it will happen.

I think the Cathedral of Our Lady of Angels in Los Angeles was inspired by California Mission architecture.

The island nature of the site and its generous dimensions led us to an independent volumetric development in which the cathedral had to be the protagonist of a whole unit that included the cardinal’s residence, the parish center, the car park and an esplanade for large congregations of up to 6,000 people in the center of the site. The land available drew us towards an understanding of the church and its annexes in a way not unlike that of the Franciscans when they constructed the independent precincts thay called “missions.” The visual focus of the exterior space is the Franciscan cross cut into the alabaster skylight of the cathedral facade. The transverse band of the cross is placed in line with the edge of the roof deck that juts out like a visor. This forward projection of the roof and its perpendicular drop on one side turns the church’s main facade into a backdrop for open-air ceremonies – the same cross presides over both indoor and outdoor altars.

people.seas.harvard.edu/~jones/lab_arch/moneo/GSD_projects.html

Yet many people, at least here at CAF, seem unhappy with it.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I am kind of indifferent to whether or not the diocese should buy the property. On the one hand, they should be able to get a good deal on it, since there is not a huge market for slightly used cathedrals (yes, I know it is not really one). In the commercial real estate market, used churches always seem to have the lowest price per square foot. Just as long there are no sermons on the power of positive thinking.

 

[odile53]

I’ve never been there, and watching televangelists (especially Protestant ones) has never really been my “thing,” but you know what? I like the structure. It does kind of grow on you. The exterior photo featuring the “prayer spire,” or whatever they called that tower, has a certain elegance. The organ is outstanding, and the gap between the twin ranks of pipes is an obvious place for an altar, a crucifix (large and dramatic, to fit the architecture of the building,) and a tabernacle. I hope they put in a communion rail, and flatten out some of the theater seating (that just isn’t my idea of what any church should be like.) Maybe the Jumbotron can be put to uses elsewhere on the campus. That’s the only major feature I/m really not all that crazy about.

I think I started to change my mind about it when I saw the post of the picture of the statue of Bishop Fulton Sheen in the CC. If Rev. Schuller could appreciate his influence enough to put that statue there, maybe they were onto something, and maybe this is a real good step in the right direction for the diocese.

Regardless of the beautiful traditional cathedrals, I like some of the modern church architecture. Not all of it, but some of it. There is a recently built Catholic church near me that has a baptismal font near the narthex. The font itself is an actual fountain, about a six foot diameter pool with an elevated central basin. The entire church is of very avant garde design. At first when I saw that fountain, and people were actually dipping their hands in it like any other holy water font, I was a little dubious. But it grew on me. The parish where I grew up constructed its permanent church in a style that would remind one of a ski resort. It has a very large and dramatic stained glass window functioning as an altar backdrop of Christ the King. It, too, grew on me. Maybe the newly acquired CC will grow on people who don’t care for it on first glance.

 

[psr13]

Correct. Someone said it’s mild because it’s near the coast. That’s not really true – it can get rather warm and it does hit triple digits.

It’s way more mild than it would be just a few miles inland. We hardly every used our air conditioning growing up.

 

[jilly4ski]

I think the Cathedral of Our Lady of Angels in Los Angeles was inspired by California Mission architecture.

people.seas.harvard.edu/~jones/lab_arch/moneo/GSD_projects.html

Yet many people, at least here at CAF, seem unhappy with it.

I think the key words are “inspired by.” Just like the statue in Rome is “inspired by” John Paul II. We all know that is artists code for extreme abstractness to the point of unrecognizable.

 

[JHow]

Me, I have just one question: “Where do the TSA guys stand?”

 

[Veronica_Anne]

Me, I have just one question: “Where do the TSA guys stand?”

Um. No pun intended, but what does ‘TSA’ stand for?

As in, what are the words for the letters – T - S - A?

 

[Veronica_Anne]

Frankly, I’d be more concerned that if the Sun is out then it’d shine directly in my eyes.

Happens at my church where there’s wide expanse of glass all along the top edge of the wall backing the altar and above Father’s head. Pretty neat, especially when it’s not raining out - sky is blue – some clouds wafting by.

However, depending on time of day and season you have to pick a pew and a spot on that pew to miss the Sun getting in your eyes. When that happens, I’ve found myself with my eyes shut during the entire consecration. Kinda strange, that.

:hypno:

 

[Faithdancer]

Why does the Catholic church not do the same?

Arkadin…I believe he is speaking ironically. He does not really think that Versailles, one of the wonders of the world, should be dismantled, or that the Smithsonian should sell off it’s collections and give to the poor. Besides which even if this were taken seriously, the money that could be raised would be a fraction of what a few of the world’s richest men and women are worth. Perhaps more of them should emulate Bill and Melinda Gates, whom I used to criticize but now admire for their pledge, and follow through, for giving the majority of their wealth to charity.

 

[Faithdancer]

I think the key words are “inspired by.” Just like the statue in Rome is “inspired by” John Paul II. We all know that is artists code for extreme abstractness to the point of unrecognizable.

LOL!

 

[Faithdancer]

The stadium seating is great – just add kneelers. I like them better than pews, they are far more comfortable and easier on older backs. The fountain should stay – both sides of it are wide enough for a fairly serious procession. The only reason I would remove it is if it was too expensive to maintain.

The organ placement is far from optimal but it would cost $$$$ to move that world class instrument. I agree with the choir comments along with moving the grand piano. I think I would make that choir area where I would put a huge, WORLD CLASS tabernacle, topped with a crucifix. The organist would be relocated along with the choir. I would not put stations of the cross in this church. Like the Cathedral in Los Angeles I would furnish this place to focus completely on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and not a venerable tradition that can be prayed elsewhere. I would have stations elsewhere on the campus though – perhaps an outside set as well.

The stained glass would look like a horrid kludge to Phillip Johnson’s magnificent design. I would leave the cross placement as it is.

Like it or not, those who designed and furnished the Crystal Cathedral “did it right.” But they did it for another reason – a whole different sort of Christian worship. I would seek out the people who designed/specified the original furnishings and seek their professional (name removed by moderator)ut given the new demands of celebrating the Mass. Doing it wrong could really turn that place into a nightmare.

Is it just me or is the lady at the bottom center of the photograph using opera glasses? Lord knows, she’s far enough away to need them!

 

[Dale_M]

Is it just me or is the lady at the bottom center of the photograph using opera glasses?

Well, maybe. Its hard to tell since we are looking from the back, but she does seem to be holding her hand in front of her face. Perhaps she is wiping her nose? (Bad timing with a photographer behind her.) Or maybe she is accompanying the magnificent pipe organ by blowing on a kazoo?