Crystal Cathedral board endorses offer from Diocese of Orange

[SonCatcher]

http://www.crystalcathedral.org/about/img/purpose.jpg

When God provides, He really does provide. The Diocese went from having an insufficiently-sized converted parish as a Cathedral for the 1,044,191 Catholics in this county of 2,760,948 people to currently having 3 ‘cathedrals’ in its disposition (Holy Family Cathedral, Christ Our Savior Cathedral Parish, and finally our likely diocesan home the Crystal Cathedral, in which Dr. Robert H. Schuller made a special trip to Rome to ask the Pope’s blessing on the building plans).

I didn’t know that - almost sounds Providential.

It is touching to know that the Crystal Cathedral Board, at the last minute, decided to fight for the Catholic Church’s offer with “[Judge] Kwan urging the church to justify its reason for choosing a lower bid and one that went against the wishes and recommendations of many of its congregants,” in order to preserve the campus as irrevocably dedicated to religious purposes (AP: Crystal Cathedral to be sold to Catholic diocese).

“I’m really pleased to know that this campus is likely for at least decades, if not centuries, to be kept as a sacred place of worship,” Carol Milner, daughter of church founder Rev. Robert H. Schuller, said after the hearing.

Let us thank the Lord and our Christian brethren for this wonderful gift of a Cathedral that will be able to serve the people of Orange County and hope that it will be a sanctuary where we can be united in One Body and One Spirit in Christ.

It’s time for Protestants to go to the shepherd [Pope]
and say 'what do we have to do to come home?'

Dr. Robert H. Schuller, Los Angeles Herald Examiner, September 19, 1987

I also didn’t know that quote before. Indeed, I have been praying that should the diocese receive the campus non-Catholics who have been praying “Thy will be done” would be inspired to reexamine the Catholic faith.

 

[CaptFun]

I’m a Catholic layman from Orange County, and was going to submit this to our local paper’s Religion section. I thought I’d post it here first (or INSTEAD) in its entirety as The Register will edit for space and sometimes that changes the whole feel of the article.

It was aimed at a mixed audience (whereas HERE it is mostly Catholics) and used humor as well as insights to make its points and entertain. Not preaching to the choir.

Your comments will be appreciated. My article follows:

---

In the never ending war of good vs. evil even churches fall short of perfection. Sometimes VERY short, and even Jesus warned us of “weeds in the field”. But a church must always point the way to heaven and be headed there under the guidance of God’s spirit.

Yes, there are problems in both the Catholic Church and the Crystal Cathedral; but when in Christ, they are allies – with more in common than a CC abbreviation. Sudden thought: Calvary Chapel is a CC too! As Calvary’s Chuck Smith ages and disagrees with at least one pastor child of his – I wonder, will the Diocese propose a purchase/swap of the Calvary campus for a parish to be named later?

I’m a Catholic who has always liked seeing that big cross from the tower shining out - even before the “Crystal Cathedral” part of the ministry was built. I saw it as a front porch “ministry” outreach to the unchurched that did an excellent job of practical things that blessed the community with youth groups, charity, counseling, and pageants that called our minds to the “Glory of Christmas” and the “Glory of Easter”. And of course televised worship that included hymns and sermons - and more informally guest speakers. It was years before I learned of that ministy’s “Dutch Reformed” affiliation.

As a volunteer at St. Callistus (down the street) we jokingly called ourselves the “stucco Cathedral” back in the days before THAT “new church” was built.

I remember Reverend Schuller having Bishop Sheen as a guest speaker, and installing TVs throughout the Cathedral when Pope John Paul II visited LA. In the midst of that week, in an astounding moment of Ecumenism that somehow never made the big news or led to his congregation fleeing, came this quote …

“It’s time for Protestants to go to the shepherd [Pope] and say 'what do we have to do to come home?” Dr. Robert H. Schuller, Los Angeles Herald Examiner, September 19, 1987.

I don’t know if there ever was a follow up to that suggestion or dialogue, but Christians seeking to be more united is what Jesus prayed for and Paul preached. Among Christians the “we should be one” urge is quite strong; and yet most agree “we” must unite more at the HIGHEST common denominator (Christ Himself) than the lowest (sacrificing much truth for “unity” with groups whose teachings are divergent to the point of contradiction).

There was Schuller’s “possibility” thinking and “good news”, while across Orange County at Calvary Chapel the “possibility” that Jesus was coming back NOW in an apocalypse loomed in counterpoint. The local Catholic Church was led by several Bishops during these same past decades and is about to get another.

Both the “possibilities” and the “stay awake” reminders from our Christian allies are good ones for Catholics. And are visited often in the Church’s weekly and daily liturgies - with ministerial homilies from the parish priests. The faith of course is even bigger than these two important things. And unity is possible. Diversity too as (a Catholic example) Dominicans and Franciscans emphasize different virtues and are not the same, yet love each other and serve the same one Lord with respect for one another.

The media covering “religion” often favors news of real estate deals, business, and whatever juicy scandals or schisms are about. But like Noah’s ark the church is a human built but divinely sustained vehicle that can guide us through to heaven (St. Peter’s insight not mine).

Boiling things down (not always proper but a good beginning and reminder) we are to love God and our neighbors with all our hearts; do good and not evil; and not be OVERLY committed to the things of “this world” which will end.

As a Catholic I joyfully invite anyone and everyone to be welcomed into the Church (actually, Jesus, who founded it, has already invited all; sometimes we “servants” don’t get this word out enough).

Here’s hoping the Bishop doesn’t sell off all 68 parishes to seal the deal and hide the tabernacle in an undisclosed location to “preserve ecumenism and the architectural tradition of the historic site” !

On a more serious, less cynical note, Jesus prayed for his followers to be one - so may we all strive to be one in HIS spirit as “Priority ONE”.

 

[Rabbity]

It is an impressive structure.

If the diocese can manage it responsibly and not repeat the excesses of its previous tenants then they should enjoy their new flagship for years to come.

 

[psr13]

I live in Santa Ana and I am happy that the bid was won but the Diosecess of Orange County, now I can wait to see how it will look and one day attend mass.

Regarding the name we already have to 2 our Lady Of Guadalupe parishes in Santa Ana, I think it would be nice to name the Crystal Cathedral in honer Pope John Paul II as he did and continues to do a lot for our faith specialy the younger generation.

God Bless

Praying for the Souls of Purgatory

There’s also already a church named after JPII. It’s in Yorba Linda and especially for Polish people.

 

[Aeolian]

Its fame already rivals St. Peter’s Basilica and Notre Dame and people will always know where to find it (unlikely it’s going to move out of Garden Grove) - even by its former name.

I can just hear it now. “Have you been to the cathedral…I forget the name, it used to be the Crystal Cathedral” or “What do you think of Holy Family Cathedral? What? The old Crystal Cathedral! Oh, yeah, it’s great.” Just retain the name – if it’s legally possible.

 

[Aeolian]

Many Catholic churches are not named after saints. This would be nothing new.

The people certainly aren’t staying away because of the name. If you haven’t been following, that fellowship is in deep turmoil and has been for many years. In fact the tour buses I saw parked were there BECAUSE of the name.

“Crystal Cathedral” is all about light. It’s all about providing a remarkable offering to God. It’s too bad humans were involved…

You’re absolutely wrong when you say “And only the faith will bring people in.” Plenty of Catholic parishes around the world that are dying because they have no clue how to present the faith, no idea how to evangelize. They’ve got the true faith and they have no idea how to share it. The Church has always been a benefactor of the arts and this is no different.

No, it’s not about giving glory to a Saint, but proclaiming the true faith, which is that of the Saints whose names glorify many Catholic Churches. A church’s name should announce it’s faith and message and/or its spiritual heritage, not it’s architectural marvels. That approach to naming places should be left to cultural, artistic and other secular centers.

I fail to see how the name Crystal Cathedral will bring people to the church…? Aren’t they in trouble precisely because no new members were coming in?

Crystal Cathedral is the celebration of an architectural masterpiece rather than the faith that inspired it, or that which now inspires its purchase by the Orange Diocese. Our churches should not be named to celebrate Art, but Catholic faith. And only the faith will bring people in, not the beautiful building. Just ask the Schullers .

Also "Christ, Our Savior Catholic Cathedral" can in no way be said to be about giving Glory to a Saint.

 

[ChemicalBean]

So if we’re re-naming the thing, how about “Transfiguration” Cathedral, or “Our Lady’s Luminous Mysteries” Cathedral? Something light-related?

 

[YoungTradCath]

I think it’s terrible church architecture, but I do see the silver lining in that it will inevitably bring at least some of the Protestants there into the Church. I also see this somewhat as being a sort of political statement, as in, “That massive Protestant church turned into a Roman Catholic Church.” That says something, I think, and it’s good.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the place. I hope the interior architecture is changed to be more timeless. The way it is now reminds me more of a semi-outdated 80s airport. The first things I’d like to see are a massive Carrera marble altar constructed with a magnificent reredos and a different organ housing. The wood is of a good color, but it needs adornment.

There’s no changing this. If it were possible, I do wish that they would back out of it and construct something else, but I am taking it with a grain of salt and am just hoping and praying that they raise it to a level befitting of a Catholic cathedral. I just hope they don’t put stuff like this nasty thing:

http://www.grdominicans.org/files/6712/8395/7311/CatholicSocialTeaching2.jpg

everywhere.

While I am optimistic about the possibilities of what they can do with the place, I do hope that something like this never happens again. It will be interesting to see how they streamline Catholic architecture with the status quo there, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this turns out to be more ghastly than the LA cathedral, but done even worse. I hope not.

I will be overjoyed at the day that a Tridentine mass will be celebrated there, if ever. That would be quite funny, I think.

 

[mburn16]

I’m sorry, but really, why is it bad church architecture? Its modern, to be sure, and not everyone likes modern architecture - but whats so bad about having a cathedral built in the current style? That is, after all, the only thing they did 500 years ago when they built the churches we consider so beautiful today…

 

[YoungTradCath]

I’m sorry, but really, why is it bad church architecture? Its modern, to be sure, and not everyone likes modern architecture - but whats so bad about having a cathedral built in the current style? That is, after all, the only thing they did 500 years ago when they built the churches we consider so beautiful today…

I believe architecture in general should be expressive of human emotion, inasmuch as the purpose of the activity it houses intends it to be. Modern architecture by its very nature is intended to squash emotion by rendering things in as much of a utilitarian manner as possible. Would you want to go to a highrise office building to go to mass? Do you find that a particularly emotive or transcendent setting?

I actually quite like modern architecture, and I have no qualms with it. I live in a modern house with modern furniture, in fact. However, I find it very poor at helping to elevate oneself to the transcendent. It is quite possible to like something or be indifferent towards it while acknowledging its inappropriateness in certain settings.

If church architecture was intended 500 years ago to be in the “current style,” then I imagine most cathedrals would be made of mud, wood and thatch.

 

[Marybeloved]

Many Catholic churches are not named after saints. This would be nothing new.

Nobody has said that churches must be named after saints- this is something I’m only hearing from you. I’m saying that the names of our churches are focused on the faith-not architecture, and I’m yet to hear of one catholic church named to describe its architectural wonders.

The people certainly aren’t staying away because of the name. If you haven’t been following, that fellowship is in deep turmoil and has been for many years. In fact the tour buses I saw parked were there BECAUSE of the name.

I didn’t say that the name keeps people away- I said it does not and cannot bring people in. Tourists may be there due to the architecture and landmark and the story of it all (historicity, if you will)- that wouldn’t be a first. Ask all the millions who visit European churches. They certainly aren’t there because it is called crystal cathedral. We cannot name our Catholic churches after Art and Architecture, and we do not glorify Art and Architecture either. Rather we make use of Art and Architecture to express our faith.

You’re absolutely wrong when you say “And only the faith will bring people in.” Plenty of Catholic parishes around the world that are dying because they have no clue how to present the faith, no idea how to evangelize. They’ve got the true faith and they have no idea how to share it.

No, my friend, you are most definitely wrong if you think that any thing at all in this world other than the truth itself can bring people in- That’s exactly the disaster of modern Christianity! Trying to “market” the truth rather than simply live, proclaim and teach it unapologetically- That’s the problem and that’s what needs fixing, getting Catholics to learn, love and live their faith fully, happily, unapologetically… then watch out world!

Do you know which faiths are fastest growing in the world? Which orders, movements, and groups in the Church are the most successful and the fastest growing while others are simply dying off? I’ll tell you- Those that simply live and teach their beliefs unashamedly, that’s who. They trust truth itself to be attractive enough to bring those who seek it, so they focus simply on living it in the world and teaching it with all the available tools they have.

Be happily and unashamedly yourself, and people come- the last 40/50 years have taught us that if nothing else.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings to those posting and or reading this thread,

Time will tell… It is a beautiful structure I can agree with that. It’s just going to take so long to think of it as Catholic now.

I have mixed feelings on this, perhaps it is becuase of the mixed feelings in the other thread. I had been waiting for an update.

I guess I’ll watch this thread for awhile and unsubscribe to the other thread.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[JRRTFAN]

The Catholic Diocese of Orange has been selected as the purchaser of the Crystal Cathedral property.

From: latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/crystal-cathedral-robert-schuller.html

This Wikipedia article has a few images: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Cathedral

I have no problem with Dr. Schuller. I think he is a nice man. I have no problem with his building this building for his ministry, more power to him.

I do not see any place in Catholic Church architecture for such a structure ( I say the same thing about the Cathedral in Liverpool - the Catholic one. The Anglican one is magnificent).

 

[BackToTheRock]

This should satisfy those calling for a greater level of “transparency” in the Church! :tiphat:

 

[BackToTheRock]

This is Dr. Schuller’s daughter, who’s in charge of things at the CC these days, talking about this change: vimeo.com/32299371

 

[Warrenton]

I have no problem with Dr. Schuller. I think he is a nice man. I have no problem with his building this building for his ministry, more power to him.

I do not see any place in Catholic Church architecture for such a structure ( I say the same thing about the Cathedral in Liverpool - the Catholic one. The Anglican one is magnificent).

 

[ringil]

I can’t believe they are going to buy this thing. . . .

 

[Anathama_Sit]

I can’t believe they are going to buy this thing. . . .

Greetings Ringil,

Yeah me too. It will be interesting to watch time go by.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[psr13]

I think it’s terrible church architecture, but I do see the silver lining in that it will inevitably bring at least some of the Protestants there into the Church. I also see this somewhat as being a sort of political statement, as in, “That massive Protestant church turned into a Roman Catholic Church.” That says something, I think, and it’s good.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the place. I hope the interior architecture is changed to be more timeless. The way it is now reminds me more of a semi-outdated 80s airport. The first things I’d like to see are a massive Carrera marble altar constructed with a magnificent reredos and a different organ housing. The wood is of a good color, but it needs adornment.

There’s no changing this. If it were possible, I do wish that they would back out of it and construct something else, but I am taking it with a grain of salt and am just hoping and praying that they raise it to a level befitting of a Catholic cathedral. I just hope they don’t put stuff like this nasty thing:

http://www.grdominicans.org/files/6712/8395/7311/CatholicSocialTeaching2.jpg

everywhere.

While I am optimistic about the possibilities of what they can do with the place, I do hope that something like this never happens again. It will be interesting to see how they streamline Catholic architecture with the status quo there, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this turns out to be more ghastly than the LA cathedral, but done even worse. I hope not.

I will be overjoyed at the day that a Tridentine mass will be celebrated there, if ever. That would be quite funny, I think.

Oh, another good one.

I really don’t see how they could make it worse than the LA cathedral, though. Hopefully, if there is a statue of Mary it actually looks like a woman at least.

 

[Aeolian]

It’s very sad (but not at all unexpected) to see people attack the Crystal Cathedral. It takes a fair amount of knowledge to accurately judge the design of a structure when it comes to modern and postmodern architecture and a great many simply lack such knowledge knowledge. People tend to attack that which they do not understand.

Most people would say (for example) that St. Patrick’s in NYC is a good looking building. They might not like Gothic architecture but most would say it’s good looking. Its proportions are striking, particularly in the setting it’s in. It’s made of seemingly high quality materials with a lot of detail. It’s symmetrical and very easy to grasp. Even more important it’s a storied and beloved building that most people have heard of.

On the other hand it takes a lot more knowledge and exposure (actually visiting the edifice and doing so at different times of the day and year and not simply looking at a photograph) to realize what was going on in (this case) Philip Johnson’s head when he designed the Crystal Cathedral. Much, much easier to simply attack that which one does not fully understand. That which which is foreign to one’s experiences. The painful part is that in the process the confused critics telegraph their ignorance along the way. This is especially true when they attack an internationally known masterpiece like the Crystal Cathedral by a master architect like Philip Johnson.

I like the Crystal Cathedral and I LOVE the overall campus which was purchased at a rock-bottom price. Go ahead and keep judging that which you do not understand and I will continue to silently laugh at you.