Crystal Cathedral board endorses offer from Diocese of Orange

[Aeolian]

Why are you taking this so personally? I said I had never been inside, from the picture I did not like the visible structural materials, however you want to describe it, up on the glass. I thought it distracting. I have been inside a church with stadium seating, a Catholic one, and I thought it was not a good way to spend my time at Mass. Have you ever sat through a Mass in stadium seats?

Stadium seats are typically an upgrade from bench seating. Yes, I have attended a Mass (actually a Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom) while sitting in a stadium seat.

I did say it was better than the other Cathedrals in the vicinity and said that it probably has some very beautiful places in the building.Thus I am not denigrating the building. I am only pointing out that the whole thing is not pleasing or beautiful in its entirety, and that the diocese got a great deal for a decent serviceable building.

It may not be “pleasing or beautiful in its entirety” to YOU. You keep forgetting that qualifier. You also took at backhanded shot at COLA for no reason which I find distasteful.

Your continued assertions that you can judge objective beauty and anyone than even slightly disagrees with you is stupid, is not helping your argument. In fact you keep appealing to authority that this building is objectively beautiful (considering not even philosophers can really even define that, it is a big jump) but have not given us any reasons or explanations to believe you or your authorities.

I said no such thing.

 

[Aeolian]

YES! The Mass is what is important!

The building irrelevant? Well. This is a question to be considered. In World War II my Dad told me Chaplain/priests said Mass outside on the hoods of Jeeps. If there were a movement to make Jeep hoods “churches” now - I’d oppose it. Occasional necessity notwithstanding.

As you seem to allude to - every mass need not be in a copy of St. Peter’s Basilica.

It would seem to me that in “converting” the Crystal Cathedral, a centrally placed tabernacle and altar, crucifix, candles and room for altar servers (with new confessionals somewhere visible) ought to do it.

I would like to see a blessing of the building too. The one really bad/sad thing I remember about the Crystal Cathedral was the horrifying suicide of the man who shot himself at the “altar”. Right about the time the ministry’s financial troubles started hitting the press (I think).

I would rejoice to see a mass at the Crystal Cathedral. In fact, I rejoice to see MORE masses everywhere.

Because as you emphasize, JESUS (and the mass) should be the foremost focus.

Great posting. Thanks for the sanity check! As part of its preparation as a Catholic cathedral the structure will be consecrated…

 

[Aeolian]

Thanks for reading and commenting on my lengthy post Aeolian. I had a couple of other “good” observations about the Cathedral, its history, and its architecture.

1. When I first visited the “campus” to hear Vice President Quayle speak (for free) in the main chapel area I was conflicted. At Catholic Churches events like this would usually be held in the parish hall (rather than in “sacred space”). But in walking up to the main building, I noticed for the first time that it was shaped like a Crystal “Noah’s Ark”. You have to see it. It reminded me of the Church/Ark comparison in an Epistle of Peter.
2. Later that day I walked about the grounds of the campus. I didn’t go to the Memorial Grounds or bookstore - but I liked the statue of Job. Something about Noah being alluded to and Job being honored - our Old Testament spiritual ancestors - really moved me.
3. My parents lived at the City Terrace Apartments (sort of next door to the Cathedral), and I enjoyed the occasional tones of the Carillon Bells intoning the time, doing a brief Christmas Carol and reminding us that a Church was there.
4. Many were stunned when “overnight” Schuller got the funding (through contributors) to build the Crystal Cathedral in the first place. He called it a miracle. His Church was famous as the “Tower of Power” program’s home and as a much discussed “drive-in church”. The Cathedral’s building actually made the ministry a bit more traditional.
5. The spires that were added was another opportunity for critics to complain about the money spent. But the ediface catches the sun and sends twinkling rays about to the people driving to Disneyland and Angel Stadium and (I must admit) looks postcard awesome from certain angles.

If it saves the Diocese millions in building costs, helps a longtime friendly Christian neighbor and even ensures just payment to creditors (of a ministry that in its own way was constantly calling people’s attention to Jesus Christ), I am for it.

Maybe an outreach to Chapman College (the other, “losing” bidder) might be in order for use of other parts of the campus. Presuming of course the college doesn’t go loony left and insist on performing a nude version of “Oh Calcutta” or “The Glory of Karl Marx!” Lol.

“Peace on earth, goodwill to men!”

I really appreciate your insight given your critical eye and the fact you have actually spent time on the campus and you’re not judging it from a snapshot or two. Did you realize that in addition to the ark shape the Crystal Cathedral is also a cruciform? You can see it clearly on a Google/Bing map.

You no doubt noticed that parts of the grounds have a 1970’s/federal government office building feel to them? Sorta cool in a kitschy sorta way. I hope they preserve that and don’t spend millions trying to “improve” it. I suspect they stopped spending money on serious preventative maintenance for at least 10 years. I wonder what it will cost to really give the campus a “shave-and-a-haircut?” Not too much is my guess – thank God for the mild OC weather.

Someone else asked me why I was taking the negative comments so personally. I think to some degree it’s because the diocese hit an absolute home run (with the Holy Spirit’s help!) on this one and people still feel the need to take shots at it. It’s a beautiful building. A very nice campus. It’s famous and draws many people to it and it was dirt cheap. Really couldn’t ask for more…

 

[YoungTradCath]

Aeolian, are you affiliated with Aeolian-Skinner?

 

[Faithdancer]

Crystal Cathedral? The OC Diocese now has a worthy “home” cathedral. Deo gratias! I will be attending some Masses there!
:harp:

 

[MugenOne]

Same here. I definitely attend Mass there when I visit SoCal. I used to drive pass by it all time.

Crystal Cathedral? The OC Diocese now has a worthy “home” cathedral. Deo gratias! I will be attending some Masses there!
:harp:

 

[Aeolian]

Crystal Cathedral? The OC Diocese now has a worthy “home” cathedral. Deo gratias! I will be attending some Masses there!
:harp:

Indeed! This is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice! Thanks be to God!!

 

[CaptFun]

I really appreciate your insight given your critical eye and the fact you have actually spent time on the campus and you’re not judging it from a snapshot or two. Did you realize that in addition to the ark shape the Crystal Cathedral is also a cruciform?

---

< I didn’t! Very cool. And a bit Catholic - maybe this was all meant to be !

---

You can see it clearly on a Google/Bing map.

You no doubt noticed that parts of the grounds have a 1970’s/federal government office building feel to them? Sorta cool in a kitschy sorta way.

---

< Nostalgia is a funny emotion. I actually miss the old Orange Drive-In (the original Crystal Cathedral site and daytime swap meet home) now that it’s gone. It seems to me there was once (is still?) a chapel at the top of the tower.

When I was a kid a few of us went and rode the elevator to the top. Then we were chased out of there (nicely but firmly). I’d like to see that again maybe. From a sensational standpoint (well maybe TOO sensational) I can imagine new priests being ordained up there. Hmm. Maybe too exclusive. But I like the image.

---

I hope they preserve that and don’t spend millions trying to “improve” it. I suspect they stopped spending money on serious preventative maintenance for at least 10 years. I wonder what it will cost to really give the campus a “shave-and-a-haircut?” Not too much is my guess – thank God for the mild OC weather.

Someone else asked me why I was taking the negative comments so personally. I think to some degree it’s because the diocese hit an absolute home run (with the Holy Spirit’s help!) on this one and people still feel the need to take shots at it. It’s a beautiful building. A very nice campus. It’s famous and draws many people to it and it was dirt cheap. Really couldn’t ask for more…

<I see a lot of good in it. And then … don’t I pick up my Bible and get hit with the Apostles gushing over the beauty of the Jerusalem Temple and praising it to Jesus.

Built by “Herod the Great,” a monster who had tried to kill Jesus when He was an infant; it was now the headquarters for Caiaphas, Annas and a number of plotters who were trying to kill Him again. Jesus probably stunned his apostles when He assured them the glittering buildings would soon have not a stone left upon a stone.

False worship in a beautiful setting apparently doesn’t please God. For the mountaintops and terebinths (tree groves) of Baal worship were beautiful too. And as someone here has alluded to - the catacombs were not such a great “Place” to be offering the mass - yet there was true worship there.

With that said, God himself instructed Moses and Solomon and Zerubbabel to use fine things such as gold for the sanctuary and temple. Fine fabrics. Elaborate artwork. Symbolic architecture (even for the “tent”), vestments for the priests, music and various ministries and offices in His plan for uniting with His covenant people.

It seems God is always defining the parameters for us. The widow’s mite is worth more than the rich man’s plenty on one hand – Abel’s sacrifice of his “best sheep” is pleasing while Cain’s “sacrifice” of perhaps NOT his finest grain is not.

In these matters I agree with you a bit more Aeolian. But I am still listening to the critics.
There are some adjustments to be made, whatever is finally decided. But if Christ is lost in the “business details” or the thrill of acquisition (not that I think He will be at all) – even the good sense of it all becomes nonsense.

Thank you honest critics. Don’t get cynical now - that’s often not “of God”. If this event comes to pass rejoice in the good of it. If it somehow DOESN’T – I will try to walk with Jesus without the benefit of a Crystal Cathedral. I promise.

 

[CaptFun]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackToTheRock
This should satisfy those calling for a greater level of “transparency” in the Church!

Funny line!

Sudden thought: this acquisition may open the Diocese up to funny quips like “people who worship in glass Cathedrals shouldn’t throw stones,” or " … those Catholics see God … as through a glass, darkly."

But thanks for the humor. For the record, I am for the “deal” - but I would like to see peace between our Diocese, the Crystal Cathedral worshippers, the creditors and a great College (Chapman) in the end. And of course for Jesus to come first in all things.

 

[JPUSC]

Word has it that the Bishop is thinking about these names: Resurrection Cathedral, Transfiguration Cathedral or Risen Christ Cathedral.

 

[JRRTFAN]

One of the first things that I thought about was the coming huge smile on Pope Benedict XVI’s face when he reviews a dossier on the Crystal Cathedral and approves its purchase. Benedict is a highly educated man not only of theology and philosophy but also of the arts. I have no doubt he will appreciate the structure.

I’m sure. I don’t think he gets a vote, however. It’s the Cathedral of the local Ordinary. The pope doesn’t get to qualify it. If he did he would have shut down L.A.

I think this pope would find himself more at home in St. Stephen’s in Vienna rather than a major mall like structure, but I’m only guessing.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Has the diocese set a date for the first Mass in the new cathedral building?

Does anyone have an aerial view of the 41 acre campus?
mapquest.com/maps?cat=Crystal+Cathedral+Academy&address=13280+Chapman+Ave&city=Garden+Grove&state=CA&zipcode=92840#b161e59fdf2f5dd5bfe90d69*

 

[David_Castlen]

Amen!

Oh please don’t buy that Church!!! No more crazy/weird churches PLEASE!!

 

[Dale_M]

Has the diocese set a date for the first Mass in the new cathedral building?

I don’t think a date can be set since the terms of the sale allow Crystal Cathedral Ministries to lease the main building for up to three years. The cost of the lease is $100,000 per month the first year and $150,000 per month during the following two years. How long CCM will can afford to remain there is open to question. At the most recent Sunday service, where the pastor asked for a miracle to save the building from sale, attendance looked sparse: 400 people in a church which seats 3000.
ocregister.com/articles/church-327961-coleman-cathedral.html

Then again, I guess the bulk of their revenue comes from their television show and there is concern that the show won’t pull in donations if held in a less dramatic location. So I think they will try to stick out the full three years.

After they leave (whenever that is), the building will need to renovated to fix deferred maintenance and to meet the needs of a Catholic church or cathedral.

 

[psr13]

All too often those “preferences” are based on ignorance. Like it or not, modern/postmodern art is not purely subjective. There is objectively good and bad designs of all genres. If you said “I personally hate the Crystal Cathdral’s design” and then went on to explain why in your opinion, I could respect that. But for people to take pot shots and say “The Crystal Cathedral is ugly” or “It’s not suited for Catholics worship” is really nothing more than a display of simple ignorance and parroting of others.

We shouldn’t have to continually qualify why we find certain architecture ugly. Fine, I tend to find the look of “clean lines” ugly. I can’t stand a building with that much glass. I especially do not like buildings that are that boring to my eye. Some people don’t find it boring, but I do. On and on and on. Since I have told you my reasons, now I am allowed to have an opinion on the subject. Woohoo.

It doesn’t take much to realize why people who prefer older style buildings prefer those buildings. It doesn’t take much to realize why people who prefer newer architecture prefer newer architecture.

 

[Aeolian]

I’m sure. I don’t think he gets a vote, however. It’s the Cathedral of the local Ordinary. The pope doesn’t get to qualify it. If he did he would have shut down L.A.

I think this pope would find himself more at home in St. Stephen’s in Vienna rather than a major mall like structure, but I’m only guessing.

The pope DOES approve or reject the building or purchase of any cathedral. It’s been talked about in the newspapers. That’s not up to debate.

Your comments about LA are nonsense. Not only can you not speak for the Pope, he most certainly had the power to greatly change LA if he had wanted to.

St. Stephen’s is another red herring. You have no idea what he prefers. Given Benedict’s advertised education and interests it’s clear he’s a man of the arts and that tells me he will recognize the beauty of Philip Johnson’s masterpiece…

 

[Aeolian]

Has the diocese set a date for the first Mass in the new cathedral building?

Does anyone have an aerial view of the 41 acre campus?
mapquest.com/maps?cat=Crystal+Cathedral+Academy&address=13280+Chapman+Ave&city=Garden+Grove&state=CA&zipcode=92840#b161e59fdf2f5dd5bfe90d69*
The Crystal Cathedral Ministries can stay there for up to 3 years. My gut feel is that they will fold in 6 months to a year. Add 6 months to that for remodeling and I would guess 12-18 months.

 

[Aeolian]

We shouldn’t have to continually qualify why we find certain architecture ugly. Fine, I tend to find the look of “clean lines” ugly. I can’t stand a building with that much glass. I especially do not like buildings that are that boring to my eye. Some people don’t find it boring, but I do. On and on and on. Since I have told you my reasons, now I am allowed to have an opinion on the subject. Woohoo.

It doesn’t take much to realize why people who prefer older style buildings prefer those buildings. It doesn’t take much to realize why people who prefer newer architecture prefer newer architecture.

Everything you just offered as being self-evident is not. It’s your personal opinion…

 

[Aeolian]

The chapel at the top of the Tower of Hope will be maintained as an “inter-faith” chapel. I guess that means a cross sans corpus in place of a crucifix?

 

[Monte_RCMS]

The Crystal Cathedral Ministries can stay there for up to 3 years. My gut feel is that they will fold in 6 months to a year. Add 6 months to that for remodeling and I would guess 12-18 months.

The CCM seemed to be doing so well for so long and … what set of circumstances brought them to this terrible point? Millions in debt; 40+ million; the payment from the Catholic Diocese will just about pay the debt.

When they had a fund raiser recently, they collected almost nothing.