Crystal Cathedral board endorses offer from Diocese of Orange

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Dale_M said:
News Update
Diocese gets blessing from Vatican to buy Crystal Cathedral

ocregister.com/news/plan-329331-cathedral-diocese.html

The sale will be finalized on Dec. 30th.
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Thank you for the update.
Looking at the satellite photographs, the campus is really gorgeous and will make an outstanding addition to the diocese … they could use the buildings for a seminary or for a college … library and resource center … fabulous.

One of my friends managed to acquire a stone church building, formerly Episcopal, and it is gorgeous. Not fully renovated yet. But they do use it for Mass and the parsonage is used for classrooms.

So, the “repurposing” or “reuse” of buildings like this is fabulous.

[Technically, it may not be “adaptive reuse” … although it might be since it does require some alteration work for conversion to a Catholic worship space.]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_reuse

But the architecture does facilitate the raising of our minds and hearts to God.*
 
The faith of Roman Catholics. The way you worship, is the way you believe…
 
Frank_J said:
The faith of Roman Catholics. The way you worship, is the way you believe…
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I’m not sure I understand the gist of your assertion. Do you mind expanding upon it?

ETA: Also, explain the implications for the specific structure discussed in the thread.
 
Filii_Dei said:
A giant triangular church. Why didn’t I think of that? 😃
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The Crystal Cathedral isn’t a triangle, but is more of a diamond shape. I’ve heard say that it was intended to be vaguely cruciform. You can see the floor plan here:
greatbuildings.com/cgi-bin/gbc-drawing.cgi/Garden_Grove_Church.html/Garden_Grove_Lower.jpg

But triangular Catholic churches do exist. For example, St. Madeleine Sophia Barat in the impoverished desert community of Trona, California. It was founded in 1939 so presumably wasn’t part of the post-WWII flowering of non-traditional architecture found in many modern Catholic churches.
 
The answer is yes! Plus the structures speak for themselves. Look at the modern Catholic architecture for so call Churches…

I once told a Novus Ordo Catholic Nun that if the Vatican had to be rebuilt it would never ever look like it looks like does right now. The faith of Novus Ordo Catholic are just not there. I sorry if I have to say the truth here. Have you look at RC Church lately they have pulled out the High Altar for a blank wall they look like Protestant Church just blanks or Meeting Houses. I too hear what Traditional RC talk about I too am a reaction of Vatican II. I was raised as Traditionalist Catholic and attend the Tridentine Mass as a kid. When one is talking about western Catholics we need break them in to two different camps. One is Novus Ordo Religion the other is Traditionalist Catholic Religion. The Crystal Cathedral is just one among many type of building that claim to a Church, they are just eye sore’s these structure should be taken down and a real houses of GOD to be built in it’s place. Remember the Mass is the eye of the center of what is happening in the Roman Church. The building Crystal Cathedral is not the first and it will not be the last. There is no beauty in building like this. You only fooling yourself if you think building like this are a thing of beauty. When Orthodox Christians build a Church it is to show the greatness of Our GOD and show the beauty of Heaven.

Second I agree about People’s Republic of Massachusetts that is one of the first sign of what makes sense here. I like that I think I’ll add that to my profile.
 
Bah… you’re just jealous because newbs can’t triforce.

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A church with four triangles, indeed.

How crazy do you think Medieval missionaries were when they emptied and consecrated pagan temples and took them over? We did that with the Pantheon in Rome.

And darned if we can’t turn a Reformed church into a Christian one! Sorry the Russian Orthodox can’t convert pagans’ and heretics’ churches like we can. 😃
 
Well if you are going to put it that way, lets see in about 50 years what will muslims say about the Vatican. Remember 8 kids per muslim ladies in Italy to 1.8 per Catholic ladies. Not so hot numbers for replacing that next generation. Hummmmmm Remember no where in the Bible does it say Rome will be there in the future… The Muslim want to take over Rome and it will be with out a shot ringing out, it will not be by the gun it will be the womb that will win over Rome. One day the Vatican will be a muslim mosque mark my words. I see it coming.
 
I dislike the architecture, but as I’ve said before, I approve this strictly for the symbolism of the act. Five centuries ago, beautiful Catholic churches were sacked and taken by force to be turned into Protestant houses of worship. Five centuries later, and ugly houses of worship have been legitimately and fairly purchased to be turned into Catholic churches. Who’s on the moral high horse now? 😃

I only wish they converted it into something else, like a diocese office or resource centre, rather than a church. Let’s don’t even talk about the external architecture - the floorplan is nothing churchlike. Even the churches built in the modern style don’t look as outrageous as that. Since the deal is done, I can only hope that they do a serious structural overhaul of the interior. Who knows, they could turn the whole thing into a giant stained glass prism. 😛

If I were from the Diocese of Orange I’d likely be very upset though, since that monstrosity is supposed to be my cathedral.
Frank_J said:
Well if you are going to put it that way, lets see in about 50 years what will muslims say about the Vatican. Remember 8 kids per muslim ladies in Italy to 1.8 per Catholic ladies. Not so hot numbers for replacing that next generation. Hummmmmm Remember no where in the Bible does it say Rome will be there in the future… The Muslim want to take over Rome and it will be with out a shot ringing out, it will not be by the gun it will be the womb that will win over Rome. One day the Vatican will be a muslim mosque mark my words. I see it coming.
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Thank you for your personal revelation. However, this is neither the forum or thread for that. The massive insult that was committed upon the great Hagia Sophia was certainly damning, but there’s no need to wish the same fate upon others. 🙂
 
Frank_J said:
The answer is yes! Plus the structures speak for themselves. Look at the modern Catholic architecture for so call Churches…

I once told a Novus Ordo Catholic Nun that if the Vatican had to be rebuilt it would never ever look like it looks like does right now. The faith of Novus Ordo Catholic are just not there. I sorry if I have to say the truth here. Have you look at RC Church lately they have pulled out the High Altar for a blank wall they look like Protestant Church just blanks or Meeting Houses. I too hear what Traditional RC talk about I too am a reaction of Vatican II. I was raised as Traditionalist Catholic and attend the Tridentine Mass as a kid. When one is talking about western Catholics we need break them in to two different camps. One is Novus Ordo Religion the other is Traditionalist Catholic Religion. The Crystal Cathedral is just one among many type of building that claim to a Church, they are just eye sore’s these structure should be taken down and a real houses of GOD to be built in it’s place. Remember the Mass is the eye of the center of what is happening in the Roman Church. The building Crystal Cathedral is not the first and it will not be the last. There is no beauty in building like this. You only fooling yourself if you think building like this are a thing of beauty. When Orthodox Christians build a Church it is to show the greatness of Our GOD and show the beauty of Heaven.

Second I agree about People’s Republic of Massachusetts that is one of the first sign of what makes sense here. I like that I think I’ll add that to my profile.
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This doesn’t really answer my question. It just reads like a rant against the Ordinary Form of the Latin Rite (there is no such thing as a “Novus Ordo Catholic”, BTW - one is either Catholic or not). I don’t understand why a non-Catholic would even see that as relevant.

Beauty is subjective. That is known. (It has come up several times in this thread that the Gothic and Mission-style churches were once reviled much like how current architecture styles are, yet both are now seen as “beautiful” because people became used to them.) Also, as has been stated many times in this thread, this particular structure is at least vaguely cruciform in structure (one standard of church design).

The question was: how would this particular architecture objectively impact worship?
 
I’m not wishing the same fate upon your Church I just saying what I see happening. I just say it will happen in the future in events are not changed soon. It may be already too late. You may wish it away just look at what is happening in Europe. Look at the growth of Islam and count? Unless something happens change it will happen.

Muslims wanted Hagia Sophia and the second part of that is the Vatican. This has always been their goal and not once did they ever take their eye of what is their target.

Beautiful Catholic churches are being sacked now and it’s been happening for the last 42 years we call it reforms of Vatican II. It is by your hands that it’s has been happening. Who needs Protestants here?

Remember I uses to be Roman Catholic so I know of what I’m talking about. I remember the Latin Tridentine Mass. Ask the Traditionalist what they think, you would be very surprised what would come out of their mouths. Read what articles appears in Latin Mass Magazine or what the SSPX states. I can say one thing about Roman Catholics they are very hard headed “no offence” For my part I not here or there on what your Church does. My only concern here is The Holy Orthodox Church, not the Roman Catholic Church here. It not my Church falling apart before our eyes.

I just trying to be kind here and worn you.
 
If you are not going to listen to me, read Patrick J Buchanan An index of Catholicism’s decline. I have a copy of what he wrote but I think Catholic Answers have a ban on printing articles so I’m unable to put into text for you. You have to look it up and read it.
 
Frank_J said:
If you are not going to listen to me, read Patrick J Buchanan An index of Catholicism’s decline. I have a copy of what he wrote but I think Catholic Answers have a ban on printing articles so I’m unable to put into text for you. You have to look it up and read it.
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Frank, your points could indeed make for an interesting conversation in another thread (perhaps in the Traditional Catholicism forum so long as it doesn’t trample any bans in place). It just seems out-of place where we are discussing the news of the purchase of a specific structure for use as a cathedral. We can talk liturgy elsewhere. (you are welcome to post a link to the thread where the liturgy conversation is taking place so interested participants can join in)
 
There is a connection here you just don’t see it. The Crystal Cathedral is just one of the problems in the Catholic. Look at this way if we could go back to say 500 years ago and if the Vatican burn to the ground. Say that Pope said we need to rebuild the Church the faith is what build any Church wheather here the U.S.A or Rome 500 year ago. It faith that all any Church. When Churches are built without faith we get what we are talking about.

It just like the Russians rebuilding the Christ the King Cathedral in Moscow it is faith of the people that build it, not man.

I sometime feel I wasting my breath trying to worn all of you… Call me a lone voice calling from the wildness.
 
Frank_J said:
There is a connection here you just don’t see it. The Crystal Cathedral is just one of the problems in the Catholic. Look at this way if we could go back to say 500 years ago and if the Vatican burn to the ground. Say that Pope said we need to rebuild the Church the faith is what build any Church wheather here the U.S.A or Rome 500 year ago. It faith that all any Church. When Churches are built without faith we get what we are talking about.

It just like the Russians rebuilding the Christ the King Cathedral in Moscow it is faith of the people that build it, not man.

I sometime feel I wasting my breath trying to worn all of you… Call me a lone voice calling from the wildness.
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Hi Frank,
Could you provide some specifics about how the link between faith and the appearance of the building works?
Some people might say that the people who built Crystal Cathedral must have had a lot of faith to put so much resources into such an extravegent building. They had to have faith that a large congregation would form to meet there.
Why, for example, do people without faith use glass while people with faith use stone? Is there some link?
Thanks,
Neil
 
Go back and read Filii Dei chat. He is saying it here. Read some of it?

I dislike the architecture, but as I’ve said before, I approve this strictly for the symbolism of the act. Five centuries ago, beautiful Catholic churches were sacked and taken by force to be turned into Protestant houses of worship. Five centuries later, and ugly houses of worship have been legitimately and fairly purchased to be turned into Catholic churches. Who’s on the moral high horse now?

I only wish they converted it into something else, like a diocese office or resource centre, rather than a church. Let’s don’t even talk about the external architecture - the floorplan is nothing churchlike. Even the churches built in the modern style don’t look as outrageous as that. Since the deal is done, I can only hope that they do a serious structural overhaul of the interior. Who knows, they could turn the whole thing into a giant stained glass prism.

If I were from the Diocese of Orange I’d likely be very upset though, since that monstrosity is supposed to be my cathedral.
 
All I can say is that they’re going to need a HUGE altar – not one of these modern ones of wood, but something solid and marble to contrast with the fluid nature of glass and light.

I’d have to say no to a Jumbotron, though. It might seem like a good idea in order to focus on the action at the lectern and the altar, but I’d keep expecting to see the latest sports scores scroll across it during the Offertory.

Can’t WAIT to hear that organ with a full choir singing the Mass in Latin!
 
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