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twopekinguys
Guest
Aren’t they leaving themselves some wiggle room since the letter is signed by a secretary?
After all, we all know about the misunderstood, mistranslated, misquoted theories many mormons use.
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After all, we all know about the misunderstood, mistranslated, misquoted theories many mormons use.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Actually, I had a short lived debate with Parker about this, and some mounds in the Ohio River Valley, and the Smithsonian.
He didn’t fare well in that debate either.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=412362
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SirThomasMore
Guest
all I want is an answer…but no LDS will touch this
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PaulDupre
Guest
Most LDS are completely ignorant of the history of Cumorah and the LDS prophets’ utterances about it. If Joseph was truly a prophet, then his and the other witnesses’ visions of the rooms full of plates, weapons and treasure in the Hill Cumorah should spur them to excavate the hill. But because the leaders know that it is all a sham, they are not willing to excavate and expose the LDS Church for the false religion that it is.
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lax16
Guest
One thing is for sure - they definitely have the resources to finance an excavation.
Do Mormons ever ask church authorities why they have not excavated Cumorah?
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PaulDupre
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Of course not. Cult members never question the judgement of the leaders. That would mean they don’t have a “testimony”.
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lax16
Guest
What about this?
America’s Destiny
President Marion G. Romney
Second Counselor in the First Presidency Ensign, Nov 1975, 35
(edited for length)
My beloved brothers and sisters, I invite you to join in a prayer that while I speak you and I may both enjoy the Spirit. I will give you a **lesson **today that the Lord has taken great pains to bring to us.
Millennia ago he declared: “There shall none come into this land [he was speaking of [COLOR=“Red”]America] save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord.
“… this land is consecrated unto him whom he shall bring. And if it so be that they shall serve him according to the commandments which he hath given, it shall be a land of liberty unto them.” (2 Ne. 1:6–7.)
Another ancient prophet said,
“This is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ.” (Ether 2:12.)
It is my purpose in making these remarks to point out from the record of ancient inhabitants of America that the foregoing decrees have been carried out.
In the western part of the state of New York near Palmyra is a prominent hill known as the “hill Cumorah.” (Morm. 6:6.) On July twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiring with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries ago—events which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation.
You who are acquainted with the Book of Mormon will recall that during the final campaign of the fratricidal war between the armies led by Shiz and those led by Coriantumr “nearly two millions” of Coriantumr’s people had been slain by the sword;… ” (Ether 15:2.)
As the conflict intensified, all the people who had not been slain—men “with their wives and their children” (Ether 15:15)—gathered about that hill Cumorah (see Ether 15:11).
Thus perished at the foot of Cumorah the remnant of the once mighty Jaredite nation, of whom the Lord had said, “There shall be none greater … upon all the face of the earth.” (Ether 1:43.)
**As I contemplated this tragic scene from the crest of Cumorah **and viewed the beautiful land of the Restoration as it appears today, I cried in my soul, “How could it have happened?”
““For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God.” (Ether 2:7–10.)
Pursuant to this decree concerning the land of America, the Jaredites were swept off in the manner we have reviewed…”
Nor were they the only people who anciently were divinely led to this choice land to grow in righteousness to be a mighty nation and then to deteriorate in wickedness until they ripened in iniquity and were, pursuant to God’s decree, swept off.
**This second civilization to which I refer, the Nephites, flourished in America between 600 **b.c. and a.d. 400. Their civilization came to an end for the same reason, at the same place, and in the same manner as did the Jaredites’. From the account of their death struggle, I quote:
“And now,” says Mormon, their historian, “I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites … to the land of Cumorah. … And when … we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah, … my people, with their wives and their children, did … behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.
“And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow … from the top of the hill Cumorah, [230,000] of my people who were hewn down, …
“… after the great and tremendous battle at Cumorah, … the Nephites who had escaped into the country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were all destroyed.
“Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ.” (Ether 2:11–12.)
In 1492, in harmony with the Lord’s statement heretofore quoted, “that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord” (2 Ne. 1:6), Columbus was divinely led to America.
**Now my beloved brethren and sisters everywhere, both members of the Church and nonmembers, I bear you my personal witness that I know that the things I have presented **to you today are true—both those pertaining to past events and those pertaining to events yet to come.
I know this is long, but he says **Cumorah is in New York **and that **America is the ****same America **Columbus visited - and he says he knows it to be true.
If it is in the Ensign and the author is the Second Counselor in the First Presidency does that make it scripture?
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TikiTokiguy
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Well, you could argue that Heavenly Father has taken all those artifacts under Cumorah up to Heaven because He does not want us to have them, but have faith. At least that’s how I saw things in my time in the LDS church.
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lax16
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PaulD -
Please explain how asking questions about excavating their known sacred land would mean they don’t have a “testimony.”
Thanks!
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lax16
Guest
Okay, but why would He then have left sacred artifacts for the Jews and the Christians to find by the boat load?
I recently posted a link to a picture of what is the oldest church (so far) that was used by Sts. Peter and Paul in Antioch. It is so uplifting and fascinating to be able to learn from archaeology how the First Christians worshipped and to have it referenced in the Bible.
I know that God would want us to be encouraged by the work of the early Christians and not discouraged by lack of evidence.
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PaulDupre
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Even more interesting…the reason Joseph Smith would have known about Camora and Moroni is…
Because it was a main headquarters of Captain Kidd, with whose treasure Joseph Smith Sr. and Joseph Smith Jr. were obsessed. All of the seer stone activity that the Smiths engaged in was to find the many treasures supposedly hidden in the New York area by Captain Kidd.
It was widely believed at the time that Captain Kidd had hidden fantastic treasures all over the New York and New England regions and that these treasures were somehow enchanted such that the seeker had to use magical means to find and obtain them.
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SirThomasMore
Guest
hmmmmm…the thot plickens
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LongJourney
Guest
What interests me is that the geography of the BoM most closely matches the area around L’anse aux Meadows. And in that same area is----Oak Island!!! 
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twopekinguys
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Very interesting to see the comparison of the names.
Not to mention “Lehigh County” Pennsylvania.
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LongJourney
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LOL I didn’t even click on the link. That Holley stuff is good!!
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SirThomasMore
Guest
wow…amazing stuff…
where are our Mormon friends now? I KNEW they would be too afraid to touch this thread…
Awesome thread…if I do say so myself
where are our Mormon friends now? I KNEW they would be too afraid to touch this thread…
Awesome thread…if I do say so myself
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PaulDupre
Guest
The problem is that Mormons are not allowed to read anything that is not “faith-promoting”. So they choose to be willfuly ignorant of these truths.
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twopekinguys
Guest
That is really a shame, but it explains a whole lot.
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