Cupich names woman to new COO role in Chicago Archdiocese

[Havard]

Well you could start by asking Archbishop Cupich on why he chose to appoint a woman rather than a man to that position, if you think that it drives men away from the Church.

It sounds like he chose her because she’s eminently capable. Which shouldn’t drive people away, since most people want a meritocracy.

 

[Billy_Bob_Mea]

I can only quote the words of the apostle Paul: Women should not speak in the churchA literal intrepretation of this verse would make one think that women are not fit for leadership. Now most people would assume that Paul is speaking to the human level on the woman, but I don’t think so. I think he is referencing the spiritual woman, which would be all of mankind. Christ took on the role of the man. Therefore, it is only Christ who should speak. In heaven, there will be neither male, nor female. Therefore, the church should not recognize such distinction when it comes to deciding who should lead, and who should follow. Therefore, it is my opinion, as long as this young lady follows Christ, it is alright for her to lead.**[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Sarcelle]

It sounds like he chose her because she’s eminently capable. Which shouldn’t drive people away, since most people want a meritocracy.

Yes I agree with you. I was addressing Elizium23 who thinks that putting women in positions of leadership in the Church drives men away.

 

[ProVobis]

It is a matter of fairness to permit people of both sexes to be in Church leadership positions. It also isn’t a bad thing to de-clericalize these roles and permit laypeople to hold them.

I think one poster questioned why this position was even necessary. Another one had concerns that the Church is now made to look like a business. Whether it’s filled by a male or female becomes a moot point IMO.

 

[ProVobis]

Well you could start by asking Archbishop Cupich on why he chose to appoint a woman rather than a man to that position, if you think that it drives men away from the Church.

That remains to be seen. This is the first time anyone’s been put in this position, as far as I can tell.

 

[Billy_Bob_Mea]

If men are driven away by having a women in a leadership role, then them men are the one’s whom are missing out because I don’t think they really understand what it means to be a good leader to begin with. Just look at Nancy Lee Demoss. She is a great spiritual influence, and even as a man myself, I have learned a great number of things from her.

 

[ProVobis]

Laypeople should be the ones who are running the business side of the operations of the archdioceses.

That is, of course, your opinion. I’ve studied with priests taking the same graduate business courses, so I know they aren’t exactly ignorant of the financial and other affairs of the diocese or parishes for that matter.

 

[ProVobis]

Yes I agree with you. I was addressing Elizium23 who thinks that putting women in positions of leadership in the Church drives men away.

That they’ve been driven away is a fact. I don’t think anyone has put an exact reason for it, though.

 

[ProVobis]

And Ms. Bohlen will actually be doing all the business work associated with actually running the archdioceses day-to-day.

Have you considered the possibility that she may have to do the dirty work and announce to the press new parish closings and mergers? It may not be the glamorous position one envies.

 

[Sarcelle]

Have you considered the possibility that she may have to do the dirty work and announce to the press new parish closings and mergers? It may not be the glamorous position one envies.

In all likelihood, it probably would not be a glamorous position. Most jobs aren’t.

 

[Havard]

That they’ve been driven away is a fact. I don’t think anyone has put an exact reason for it, though.

If there’s a concerted effort to fill positions with either gender, that’s not a meritocracy. That said, for certain positions, such as pastoral council membership, demographic representation can be a relevant factor. You don’t want a pastoral council that doesn’t even understand the needs of its community. But that’s not applicable in the case we’re discussing.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

I think one poster questioned why this position was even necessary. Another one had concerns that the Church is now made to look like a business. Whether it’s filled by a male or female becomes a moot point IMO.

Actually, no. Both you and Elizium implied that women shouldn’t have such positions.

And I quote

It’s very unorthodox to have a COO in the chancery, so it only makes sense that a woman would fill the post. ** I was comforted to see the rest of the slate be men in traditional roles.** I am curious as to whether this creation of a COO signals an intention to run the diocese even more like a business, and whether that means that the faithful will be treated as customers, and spiritual goods as products or services.

And then you said having women leaders in the Church would drive men away.

And I quote

I don’t think this is happening very much as women outnumber men by almost 2 to 1 in Mass attendance as it is. How is intentionally appointing more women in Church management supposed to attract men back to Church?

 

[sttcatherinefan]

That is, of course, your opinion. I’ve studied with priests taking the same graduate business courses, so I know they aren’t exactly ignorant of the financial and other affairs of the diocese or parishes for that matter.

Priests’ main job is ministering to people’s spiritual needs. They shouldn’t be running businesses. Permitting qualified laypeople to run the business aspect of the diocese allows the priests to focus on the spiritual aspects.

 

[Elizium23]

Priests’ main job is ministering to people’s spiritual needs. They shouldn’t be running businesses. Permitting qualified laypeople to run the business aspect of the diocese allows the priests to focus on the spiritual aspects.

Pastors, to take one example of Church governance, have practically carte blanche power to administer their parishes. They may create parish councils or advisory boards, they may hire finance managers and pastoral assistants, but the ultimate canonical buck stops on the pastor’s desk, without exception. It is their responsibility and their duty to oversee the business operations of their parishes. Perhaps through delegation, yes, but this is not necessarily always the best course of action.

That is not to say that +Cupich should not delegate some of his authority. Wise bishops in a diocese of any size, especially huge ones like this, delegate much authority to trustworthy people. But it’s always a delicate balancing act. You can’t give away the farm, stand back and act like your only job is to administer the sacraments and look good for photo ops with people in retirement homes.

 

[Havard]

That is, of course, your opinion. I’ve studied with priests taking the same graduate business courses, so I know they aren’t exactly ignorant of the financial and other affairs of the diocese or parishes for that matter.

Oh, Absolutely. I have a Bachelor’s in Business and a JD from a top-tier university. I also took classes at the MBA school while getting my JD, and could have easily gone for a JD/MBA. In addition to practicing law and working in the consulting industry for over a decade, I also worked in public accounting for over two years. I know at least one other seminary applicant in my diocese is an experienced lawyer, and I think another is a CPA. And our diocese already has numerous MBA, CPA, and JD priests.

 

[Havard]

Laypeople should be the ones who are running the business side of the operations of the archdioceses. There is no need for priests to be involved with that at all. I also think that laypeople should have a larger role in tribunals. Any ministries regarding laypeople, such as the family ministry should be run by laypeople. Pastoral councils should have an actual real say in the running of their parish as it is their money being used. Ditto with schools. The parents and teachers should have a majority say. Laypeople should also have a greater role in the formation of priests as well as situations like sexual abuse claims.

In general, there is no need to have roles reserved specifically for a priest other than dispensing the Sacraments or roles associated directly with priestly formation and supervision. This includes in the Vatican. Why does a bishop need to be in charge of the Pontifical Council for Peace and Justice or the Pontifical Council for the Family? Why can’t a female religious head the Congregation for Religious Life?

You do realize that laypeople do have important roles at tribunals, right? The Vice-Chancellor and Defender of the Bond of my diocese is a layman. And Catholic seminaries do have lay instructors.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

Pastors, to take one example of Church governance, have practically carte blanche power to administer their parishes. They may create parish councils or advisory boards, they may hire finance managers and pastoral assistants, but the ultimate canonical buck stops on the pastor’s desk, without exception. It is their responsibility and their duty to oversee the business operations of their parishes. Perhaps through delegation, yes, but this is not necessarily always the best course of action.

That is not to say that +Cupich should not delegate some of his authority. Wise bishops in a diocese of any size, especially huge ones like this, delegate much authority to trustworthy people. But it’s always a delicate balancing act. You can’t give away the farm, stand back and act like your only job is to administer the sacraments and look good for photo ops with people in retirement homes.

Yes and dictatorial snots can decide that they should rule the parish with an iron fist and get rid of girl altar servers and the parish council and prance around in pretty vestments while saying Mass in Latin. While of course, the laity especially women are treated like little children. I’m sorry but that must stop. The laity must be given some real say in our Church and treated like adults, not children. I think that many people have been driven away from the Church by the attitudes that the laity are “serfs” and must pray, pay, and obey. If Pope Francis wants an engaged laity, then give us an actual voice in the Church!

 

[sttcatherinefan]

You do realize that laypeople do have important roles at tribunals, right? The Vice-Chancellor and Defender of the Bond of my diocese is a layman. And Catholic seminaries do have lay instructors.

There isn’t enough. I think that the tribunals should actually be dismantled but that is for another time and argument. Along with having all the business roles in the Church, I think that the laity should have recourse against bad priests. There are lots of people who complain about priests on this forum but they have no way to formally deal with their disputes. They need some sort of recourse as well as actual say in the Church.

 

[Elizium23]

There isn’t enough. I think that the tribunals should actually be dismantled but that is for another time and argument. Along with having all the business roles in the Church, I think that the laity should have recourse against bad priests. There are lots of people who complain about priests on this forum but they have no way to formally deal with their disputes. They need some sort of recourse as well as actual say in the Church.

That would be the bishop, or the major superior. The ordinary. Unfortunately for you, that would be a man’s role only.

 

[Sarcelle]

That would be the bishop, or the major superior. The ordinary. Unfortunately for you, that would be a man’s role only.

And your point is…