Curious about contemplative prayer

[Bookcat]

I was the one who asked that it be banned when it was, because it was being misrepresented by those who opposed it.,

Jim

Readers can read the various links provided by the Catholic Answers Apologists above on the subject. They include such as these archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9711fea1.asp and catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6337&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=873762 (I give them as a sampling of what the post there…not that I have read them all per se or thus personally necessarily agree with everything that may be there)

As for myself while in my early youth I promoted it even-- I now do not.

Rather I do not recommend such works (rather the contrary) and I advise others towards such as the works I posted here forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9310412&postcount=17

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here’s a piece from Fr Keating on contemplative prayer from his book, “Open Mind Open Heart.”

The root of prayer is silence. We may think of prayer as thoughts or feelings expressed in words, but this is only one of its forms. “Prayer,” according to Evagrius[and early Christian Monk 345-399 AD], is the laying aside of thoughts. This definition presupposes that there are thoughts. Contemplative Prayer is not so much the absence of thoguhts as the detachment from them. It is the opening of mind and heart, body and emotions-our whole being to God., the Ultimate Mystery, beyond words thoughts and emotions, beyond, in other words, the psychological content of the present moment. We do not deny or repress what is in our consciousnesses, We simply accept the fact of whatever is there and go beyond it, not by effort, but by letting go of whatever is there.

According to the Baltimore Catechism, prayer is the raising of the mind and heart to God.

Raising our mind and heart, is not going outside of ourselves into the cosmos, but turning within and going to the center of our being, where God dwells.

To me, this is contemplative prayer in a nutshell.

Jim

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I was the one who asked that it be banned when it was, because it was being misrepresented by those who opposed it.,

Jim

Thank you, Jim. I remember the days it drove us nuts trying to knock down straw men growing like weeds. And every single author had the same mischaracterizations, like they all got it from the same source. I’m glad it’s banned.

Alan

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My norton blocked the site as malicous.

I have Norton and it doesn’t block it.

It’s the “Living Flame of Love” on line, from the Institute of Carmelite Studies, who are the publishers of the works of St. John of the Cross and St Teresa’s works.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

jesus-passion.com/LivingFlameLove.htm

That’s an older translation.

The link I posted is translation by Kieran Kavanaugh, OCD and Otilio Rodriguez, OCD.

Anyway, from the link you posted;

The dominant theme is the wonderful work of God in his Trinitarian Being, illumining and delighting and absorbing the soul in the embrace of love. And John here describes and gives witness to this mystical experience taking place in his deepest center, in the profound caverns of his being.

Jim

 

[Samson01]

The dominant theme is the wonderful work of God in his Trinitarian Being, illumining and delighting and absorbing the soul in the embrace of love. And John here describes and gives witness to this mystical experience taking place in his deepest center, in the profound caverns of his being.

This is going to take some time. This is a profound statement that at first glance, I am drawn to the words “God…absorbes the soul”. I’m looking at his “being” as not necessarily within him. I have to think about this. Samson

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Corinthians 3: 16

Jim

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Jim

Without question

 

[Samson01]

Is this indwelling only for one in communion?

 

[Bookcat]

Is this indwelling only for one in communion?

No who are baptized into Christ – and who are in a state of grace.

(such is a different topic than the banned topic)

 

[Bookcat]

No who are baptized into Christ – and who are in a state of grace.

(such is a different topic than the banned topic)

No…those who are baptized into Christ --and who remain in a State of grace (the Holy Trinity dwells within them).

(typoilging class needed)

 

[Samson01]

No…those who are baptized into Christ --and who remain in a State of grace (the Holy Trinity dwells within them).

(typoilging class needed)

Yeah, i got it…just waiting a relpy on another thread about OT Saints being in grace or not…Thanks.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2781 When we pray to the Father, we are in communion with him and with his Son, Jesus Christ.33 Then we know and recognize him with an ever new sense of wonder. The first phrase of the Our Father is a blessing of adoration before it is a supplication. For it is the glory of God that we should recognize him as “Father,” the true God. We give him thanks for having revealed his name to us, for the gift of believing in it, and for the indwelling of his Presence in us

.

That being said. God dwells in all human beings. If he didn’t they’d cease to exist.

Doctrinal

All solid devotion and devotional practices must be founded upon the truths of faith, and these truths must be borne in mind when treating of the presence of God from an ascetical and devotional point of view. First, it is of faith that God is present by His Essence everywhere and in all things by reason of His Immensity. newadvent.org/cathen/12396a.htm

For the Baptized however, the knowledge of the Holy Trinity being present within, is a gift the unbelievers do not share. With this knowledge, we are able to reach out to Him dwelling within and receive the transforming graces of His love.

The Baptized have the gifts of the Holy Spirit available to them, where the unbeliever, doesn’t even know they exist.

Jim

 

[Samson01]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
.

That being said. God dwells in all human beings. If he didn’t they’d cease to exist.

For the Baptized however, the knowledge of the Holy Trinity being present within, is a gift the unbelievers do not share. With this knowledge, we are able to reach out to Him dwelling within and receive the transforming graces of His love.

The Baptized have the gifts of the Holy Spirit available to them, where the unbeliever, doesn’t even know they exist.

Jim

Thanks…thats pretty solid.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I don’t know why…guess I’ll find out when I download it to my daughters kindle.. Is it pretty orthodox?

Contemplation, you’ll find, tends to live outside of considerations of orthodoxy, it is … letting go and letting God in a very profound sense.

People tend to find their own way into the quiet, God does it all. Cloud is written in Middle English unless you found an updated version, maybe some think that’s too difficult. But, as a wise man I know always says: the book will find you. So if this one doesn’t resonate, something else mentioned here will.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I heard about this book. I can’t remember where, I think it was one of the article links provided here. But it said that this book, though good and speaking about contemplative prayer, is somehow what helped get the other type of prayer going (the banned topic prayer) because people were misreading what it actually had to say. The poster might be saying to hold off for new people because they might accidentally fall into that same line of thinking.

I might be wrong though

Derek

I don’t know, I never he heard of that before. But clear understanding is why I like the Underhill editions, the Introduction is almost as good as the book. She is the great expert on mysticism. Or was, of course, as she has passed.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Because one must understand that work correctly and in context etc and an apophatic work from the end of the 14th century is not necessarily the best place for one to start.

And as the author himself notes the work is not intended for beginners but for those advanced in the spiritual life…

Oh, I see. hmmmm Well, I think the thing about that is that God does do it all. If you are called to contemplation, it can be a fairly sudden but irresistible, almost, drawing to this sort of prayer. I don’t think one needs to be “advanced” as much as called. I also can’t imagine what in it anyone is very concerned with.

Besides, I think a woman wrote it.

 

[christofirst]

I have also explored the works of Fathers Keating and Pennington. I am drawn to much of what they write, but also perplexed by warnings like the Vatican’s “Christ, Bearer of the Water of Light,” and all the occasional controversy here at CAF.

I have found subtle differences of emphasis in the writings of John Main OSB., promoter of Christian Meditation, which make it more agreeable than CP for me personally. It is still initially a form of mantra meditation, which may give some the heeby-jeebies. If so, there are thankfully many forms of meditation, as have been mentioned here, which can open and incline us toward contemplation. In the case of Fr. Main, the word he recommends for repetition is, Maranatha, Aramaic for Come, Lord Jesus. I personally use a form of the Jesus Prayer to keep the intention of my meditation Christ-centered.

If anyone is interested, I recommend John Main’s “Christian Meditation: The Gethsemani Talks” or “Word into Silence: A Manual for Christian Meditation.” Fr. Main died in 1982, and Fr. Laurence Freeman OSB continues where Main left off. Some of Fr. Laurence’s writings are very ecumenical, which might also put off some who are more traditionally minded.

Just a side note, I was also encouraged to read Ernest E. Larkin O. Carm’s endorsement of both CP and Christian Meditation in the book, Carmelite Paryer: A Tradition for the 21st Century, edited by Keith Egan.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Is this indwelling only for one in communion?

Too much thinking. Here’s contemplation:

“naked intent, yearning for God”

You give God a half hour of your life, you push all concerns and thoughts away, you’re … listening without expecting to hear. You may feel nothing. Your presence to Him, is your sacrifice.

Think of Mary, sister of Martha, who chose the better part.

You do nothing. You just be in God.

You cannot understand it. But do read some books so you know what to expect.

 

[Bookcat]

Oh, I see. hmmmm Well, I think the thing about that is that God does do it all. If you are called to contemplation, it can be a fairly sudden but irresistible, almost, drawing to this sort of prayer. I don’t think one needs to be “advanced” as much as called. I also can’t imagine what in it anyone is very concerned with.

Besides, I think a woman wrote it.

There are various schools of thought in terms of contemplation --both acquired and infused.

And the Author himself was the first to caution potential readers of his work.

Oh and To my knowledge no one has ever thought it was a woman who wrote it.

Though perhaps you can discover who it was and get rich from the book you write showing it was a woman …named Ann who was a milkmaid in an English Farm outside of London in the 14th Century (if you do though …remember me)