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BlueRoses12
Guest
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BlueRoses12
Guest
This is eye-opening:
questioningcursillo.com/10.html
The Cursillo movement is often promoted through “testimonies” of those who enjoyed the weekend, and are most commonly solicited at the close of the weekend, before critical evaluation can occur. What you will not hear are the “other stories” of those who have been troubled or adversely affected by the Cursillo (or similar) weekend or movement.
One woman tells her story.
I especially liked an observation the woman made:
*[A counselor trying to prevent her from leaving said] “…Who are you angry at, Pauline? Is it God? It’s okay if it’s God.”
"That was when I felt the best and cleanest anger of all that weekend surge up in me. “No,” I snapped. “It’s not. Not at all. …]
"I’m angry,” I said slowly, “with whoever came up with the idea that it’s good for your spiritual life to be helpless before another human being. Being helpless before God is another thing.”*
questioningcursillo.com/10.html
The Cursillo movement is often promoted through “testimonies” of those who enjoyed the weekend, and are most commonly solicited at the close of the weekend, before critical evaluation can occur. What you will not hear are the “other stories” of those who have been troubled or adversely affected by the Cursillo (or similar) weekend or movement.
One woman tells her story.
I especially liked an observation the woman made:
*[A counselor trying to prevent her from leaving said] “…Who are you angry at, Pauline? Is it God? It’s okay if it’s God.”
"That was when I felt the best and cleanest anger of all that weekend surge up in me. “No,” I snapped. “It’s not. Not at all. …]
"I’m angry,” I said slowly, “with whoever came up with the idea that it’s good for your spiritual life to be helpless before another human being. Being helpless before God is another thing.”*
G
gh4
Guest
Wow, what an interesting story. I experienced many of the same things she did.
Thanks so much for sharing that link.
Thanks so much for sharing that link.
D
DebChris
Guest
@gh4–Your last several comments tell me that the leadership during your weekend may have had some legitimate concerns about your welfare. Perhaps, they did not handle things in a way that provided comfort or ease your anxiety, but there is often more than one perspective to any story.
Cursillo was developed in response to a genuine need within the Catholic Church. The lay men in Spain who started Cursillo recognized that many Catholics were poorly catechized in their Faith. Cursillo is a basic course in Christianity, or as others have called it Christianity 101. Who takes a course without planning to attend all classes, or sessions that are part of the course? What do we miss when we skip sessions, simply because we choose to skip?
Sure, the concepts involved could be taught in nightly sessions, but the originators of Cursillo chose to make it a weekend course. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the three pillars of Cursillo are piety, study, and action. Study comes after the weekend, as we strive to learn more about our faith and share what we have learned during weekly reunions and ultreyas with other Cursillistas. Piety begins during the weekend. This is not to say that a person does not have a prayer life before Cursillo. There is communal prayer throughout the weekend. It begins with morning and evening prayer, a variation on the Liturgy of the Hours as prayed by monks and others throughout the world. There is daily Mass. During the rosary, prayer intentions were made at the beginning of each decade. I have shared this method of praying the rosary on other threads. Again, as previously mentioned, there was time set aside for Eucharistic Adoration. There was time for spiritual direction and the Sacrament of Reconciliation. All sessions on the Sacraments were taught by the priest.
The focus of this thread has been very negative with very little demonstrated effort to genuinely learn what Cursillo is about or its purpose. As stated before, nobody makes any vows. We are not “sworn to secrecy.” If we choose not to reveal every minute detail of the weekend, it is because we do not want anybody else to lose out on the experience. Why take the course if I give you my syllabus and all the notes I took along the way? Cursillo is not a requirement. There are a number of different ways in which the Holy Spirit works in and through His people and His Church. While a few people, like gh4 have a negative experience related to Cursillo, there are many more who have been genuinely helped by this movement.
The following link contains what the popes have had to say about Cursillo. metcursillo.org/Pope_JPII.aspx. The website itself gives provides information about Cursillo, much of it already contained throughout this thread. Included information is Cursillo as a one time event. It is not a retreat, but may make future retreats “more profitable,” and husbands are generally encouraged to make the weekend before their wives.
Please read Post #351 if genuinely interested in learning more about Cursillo. Strife is a luxury that we as Christians cannot afford and I refuse to engage in it.
DeColores
Cursillo was developed in response to a genuine need within the Catholic Church. The lay men in Spain who started Cursillo recognized that many Catholics were poorly catechized in their Faith. Cursillo is a basic course in Christianity, or as others have called it Christianity 101. Who takes a course without planning to attend all classes, or sessions that are part of the course? What do we miss when we skip sessions, simply because we choose to skip?
Sure, the concepts involved could be taught in nightly sessions, but the originators of Cursillo chose to make it a weekend course. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the three pillars of Cursillo are piety, study, and action. Study comes after the weekend, as we strive to learn more about our faith and share what we have learned during weekly reunions and ultreyas with other Cursillistas. Piety begins during the weekend. This is not to say that a person does not have a prayer life before Cursillo. There is communal prayer throughout the weekend. It begins with morning and evening prayer, a variation on the Liturgy of the Hours as prayed by monks and others throughout the world. There is daily Mass. During the rosary, prayer intentions were made at the beginning of each decade. I have shared this method of praying the rosary on other threads. Again, as previously mentioned, there was time set aside for Eucharistic Adoration. There was time for spiritual direction and the Sacrament of Reconciliation. All sessions on the Sacraments were taught by the priest.
The focus of this thread has been very negative with very little demonstrated effort to genuinely learn what Cursillo is about or its purpose. As stated before, nobody makes any vows. We are not “sworn to secrecy.” If we choose not to reveal every minute detail of the weekend, it is because we do not want anybody else to lose out on the experience. Why take the course if I give you my syllabus and all the notes I took along the way? Cursillo is not a requirement. There are a number of different ways in which the Holy Spirit works in and through His people and His Church. While a few people, like gh4 have a negative experience related to Cursillo, there are many more who have been genuinely helped by this movement.
The following link contains what the popes have had to say about Cursillo. metcursillo.org/Pope_JPII.aspx. The website itself gives provides information about Cursillo, much of it already contained throughout this thread. Included information is Cursillo as a one time event. It is not a retreat, but may make future retreats “more profitable,” and husbands are generally encouraged to make the weekend before their wives.
Please read Post #351 if genuinely interested in learning more about Cursillo. Strife is a luxury that we as Christians cannot afford and I refuse to engage in it.
DeColores
G
gh4
Guest
I don’t think that Cursillo is evil. Really I don’t. I don’t think the women on the giving team got up in the mornings and said “Let’s see if we can make GH4’s life miserable today.”
I believe that there was a HUGE lack of training or if they got training, it was of the poorest quality. I think they honestly tried to do something good. I think that they were in the dark about the way cursillo is structured to break people and then to give them the mountain top feeling.
I also think that very strong women who won’t be pushed around in real life and who stand up for themselves and who are very very independent and who have struggled in their lives and come out on top are the least likely to take cursillo’s ways without pushing back. Some of us push back harder than others.
I think there are a lot of people who will say something like “it was ok” or something similar who didn’t hate it, but didn’t love it, or didn’t like it but will never really express their opinions to anyone who isn’t very close to them (mother, father, husband, children etc.)
And there are those who will endure most anything without raising one iota of fuss because that how they are.
My mother would have endured and would never have said a thing and would have smiled through the entire thing and then come home and told my dad how horrible it was but would never ever state that opinion to anyone else, ever. If someone asked it she would have said, ‘it’s something you have to do for yourself.’ Not that she would have been trying to be secretive, but that she would never tell of her experience, and that would be the easiest out. As she would have told me, ‘good breeding means that you just smile and keep your mouth shut.’ I guess my breeding wasn’t so good!!! grin (I was adopted ya know!)
So, there’s how I see it.
I believe that there was a HUGE lack of training or if they got training, it was of the poorest quality. I think they honestly tried to do something good. I think that they were in the dark about the way cursillo is structured to break people and then to give them the mountain top feeling.
I also think that very strong women who won’t be pushed around in real life and who stand up for themselves and who are very very independent and who have struggled in their lives and come out on top are the least likely to take cursillo’s ways without pushing back. Some of us push back harder than others.
I think there are a lot of people who will say something like “it was ok” or something similar who didn’t hate it, but didn’t love it, or didn’t like it but will never really express their opinions to anyone who isn’t very close to them (mother, father, husband, children etc.)
And there are those who will endure most anything without raising one iota of fuss because that how they are.
My mother would have endured and would never have said a thing and would have smiled through the entire thing and then come home and told my dad how horrible it was but would never ever state that opinion to anyone else, ever. If someone asked it she would have said, ‘it’s something you have to do for yourself.’ Not that she would have been trying to be secretive, but that she would never tell of her experience, and that would be the easiest out. As she would have told me, ‘good breeding means that you just smile and keep your mouth shut.’ I guess my breeding wasn’t so good!!! grin (I was adopted ya know!)
So, there’s how I see it.
B
BlueRoses12
Guest
I agree.
The article I recently quoted, the woman’s experience, contains some very perceptive speculations about why good people in Cursillo may do the things they do.
She assured me these people were not intentionally practicing social control on me, and I believed her. I think that they were simply faithfuly following the program—and the program was designed to produce the effects that it produced. In faithfully following the program they had become their own little temporary culture, with its own expectations quite different from the norm …]
Heh. Yeah, I guess my breeding isn’t so good, either.
I already realize that my background makes it highly unlikely I could become part of this board, part of this community. I knew that when I disclosed it. That’s why I created a throwaway account for this very thread. People simply don’t go around casually admitting things like this, not in Catholic circles.
I disclosed my background here precisely to let people know how harmful this experience could be to such a person. Yes, I realize I may come off as “histrionic and somewhat paranoid” – that’s what I bring to the table. I realize the temptation is strong to write me off on that very account, but at what point do you begin to listen to people like us, and stop using our pasts as an excuse to ignore us?
Cursillo itself has rules screening us out, but because it’s not something one readily admits, and there is still such a stigma against mental illness, I can’t see how the screening could work.
I do know that *nothing *I read prior to my weekend implied that any kind of mental or emotional challenge would be a reason not to go. My sponsor never asked me, no pre-weekend literature or forms I read asked that question, and before the weekend I saw no reason that such a personal question would be asked.
As “Pauline” puts it:
*Coming out of this experience, my husband and I firmly believe—and our online research has turned up some very thoughtful people who agree—that Cursillo-based retreats are at best a social experiment in conformity and a distraction from the Christian life, and at worst, for some sensitive individuals, a true potential trauma. *
And how do we know who they are?
B
BlueRoses12
Guest
“Very little demonstrated effort”? After we’ve seen the results of the extensive research done by iloveangels?
As stated before, and demonstrated in this thread, some have been pressured into doing that very thing. So I have no idea how you could say that with a straight face.
The article I recently pointed to contains an excellent explanation why good people would do this.
When you say “nobody does this” and “that never happens” you misspeak, because you go beyond your experience. It’s perfectly valid to say “I, myself, never had to do that, and it isn’t part of Cursillo’s published plan” but to go beyond this is speculation on your part.
Pope John Paul has had an enormous positive affect on Catholicism during his pontificate. He is, quite rightly, admired and even venerated. I don’t doubt he will be raised to sainthood. However, popes are not infallible unless speaking* ex cathedra *on topics of faith or morals. He also had high praise for Marcial Maciel.
You have been. By repeatedly, doggedly refuting what people say, not by addressing it, but by obdurately insisting “That doesn’t happen.” (Which, of course, implies that the person is a liar.)
On this thread you’ve been like a fog machine, billowing out distraction and obfuscation. Or, at best, pouring out barrels of oil on troubled waters.
I
iloveangels
Guest
Psychological manipulation, Rogerian encounter grouping techniques, loss of freedom and all the things that have been testified to on this board are NOT part of the Christian faith, and they’re NOT part of Catholicism.
It is true that catechesis among laypeople has been dismal, particularly since Vatican II. It is true that some people have mistaken these techniques for catechesis, but they are NOT catechesis.
These things have been substituted for the teaching, doctrine and tradition of the Church. They have been substituted for legitimate Christian fellowship. They are NOT genuinely Christian or Catholic.
It is true that catechesis among laypeople has been dismal, particularly since Vatican II. It is true that some people have mistaken these techniques for catechesis, but they are NOT catechesis.
These things have been substituted for the teaching, doctrine and tradition of the Church. They have been substituted for legitimate Christian fellowship. They are NOT genuinely Christian or Catholic.
B
BlueRoses12
Guest
Cursillo people are finally figuring out that the intense secrecy is not to their benefit.
nationalepiscopalcursillo.org/4th%20day%20winter%2010%20final.pdf
*"We need to be open about what a Cursillo weekend has to offer. A sponsor does not have to divulge information, but should answer every question honestly. If your potential candidate would benefit from knowing, then inform her or him. The secrecy has turned people away.
"…] we need to stop protecting the ‘Secrets’ of Cursillo. In this age of the internet and information just a point and click away, our withholding of information is turning people off. …]
“People were put on waiting lists, and we were holding extra weekends around Y2K.
Let’s see if we can get back to having this problem, instead of worrying about whether or not we have enough people to make weekends viable.”*
Now, it’s clear that the reasons this person advocates greater openness have to do with the shrinking pool of Cursillo candidates, and the ease with which people can find information in the Internet age. In other words, nothing to do with questions of morality, and concerned mainly with the organization’s health, not the greater good. But at least he seems to be seeing that problematic things look much less sinister without furtive, futile attempts to hide them. Which I believe many would agree with.
nationalepiscopalcursillo.org/4th%20day%20winter%2010%20final.pdf
*"We need to be open about what a Cursillo weekend has to offer. A sponsor does not have to divulge information, but should answer every question honestly. If your potential candidate would benefit from knowing, then inform her or him. The secrecy has turned people away.
"…] we need to stop protecting the ‘Secrets’ of Cursillo. In this age of the internet and information just a point and click away, our withholding of information is turning people off. …]
“People were put on waiting lists, and we were holding extra weekends around Y2K.
Let’s see if we can get back to having this problem, instead of worrying about whether or not we have enough people to make weekends viable.”*
Now, it’s clear that the reasons this person advocates greater openness have to do with the shrinking pool of Cursillo candidates, and the ease with which people can find information in the Internet age. In other words, nothing to do with questions of morality, and concerned mainly with the organization’s health, not the greater good. But at least he seems to be seeing that problematic things look much less sinister without furtive, futile attempts to hide them. Which I believe many would agree with.
G
gh4
Guest
I’m not sure how someone could say that there’s not enough positive information out there. It’s easy to find, I found tons of happy and positive information before I went on my weekend when I was trying to figure out what I was going to experience. I found no real negative information or information from someone who didn’t LOVE their weekend.
People have to work hard to ferret out any negative information on Cursillo. It’s there but darned if I could find it.
I think that the bad and the good should be easily available to anyone who wants to see it. Period. And I agree that the secrets should be told.
We must remember that just because someone have a great time, it doesn’t devaluate the feelings of the person who had a horrible time. Nor is the person who didn’t like it and experienced something negative lying or making up a story. Nor does it work the other way either with someone who had a great time lying. We all experienced what we experienced. And we must respect each other and our personal experiences.
People have to work hard to ferret out any negative information on Cursillo. It’s there but darned if I could find it.
I think that the bad and the good should be easily available to anyone who wants to see it. Period. And I agree that the secrets should be told.
We must remember that just because someone have a great time, it doesn’t devaluate the feelings of the person who had a horrible time. Nor is the person who didn’t like it and experienced something negative lying or making up a story. Nor does it work the other way either with someone who had a great time lying. We all experienced what we experienced. And we must respect each other and our personal experiences.
B
BlueRoses12
Guest
Again, from: questioningcursillo.com/10.html
*“I almost trusted her at first, and gave her the explanation about the issues from my past, which was a mistake. She clearly saw it as her job to counsel me. For counseling, trust is required; to persist in the face of its refusal is, quite simply, to try to maneuver the person into the vulnerable position of counselee. This is what, to my mind, she did. It is painful beyond measure to me to have someone to whom I have not give my trust pry into my soul and try to “help” me.” *
This is what happened to me. When I arrived, with my sponsor (whom I’d admired and looked forward to sharing the retreat with) I didn’t know another soul. As grinning men took the luggage out of her car, she picked that moment to announce that she would not be attending the retreat at all, but would be spending the weekend with a friend in the nearby town. She was gone before I could even process this.
I had to realize that she hadn’t even given me the correct name for this place or the town I was in. It was a small parish church out in the middle of farming country. A single dusty road passed it, leading to the town – but in which direction? I spent every break looking up and down the road trying to figure out which direction to start walking, where I could find a police station. In hot August, I wasn’t sure how far I could walk without water.
The first thing these strangers told me was that I would not be allowed access to a telephone. (So much for my first panicked idea of placing a collect call to my husband.) I was stripped of my wristwatch, told that bathroom breaks would be strictly scheduled
, and that “GOD wants you here!” They would be the voice of God to me during this weekend.
It was that, which was most horrifying to me. That they took my spiritual direction upon themselves. (I was a Carmelite, but they knew God’s will for me better than I did. Better than my freely-chosen spiritual director did.) They told me that the Catholicism I’d studied up until then was “pre-Vatican II” and sick. The smiling attacks on my faith were relentless. God was the community. Hugs were the main sacrament.
And how tragic, it was judged, that I was sick enough not to enjoy hugging. An incest survivor took me under her wing (“I didn’t like hugs, either, until I got therapy”) and played amateur therapist with me for the rest of the weekend. I think she was delighted to find someone with (she felt) commonality. (I am *not *an incest survivor. Not sure where she got that idea, although it must have been clear I was profoundly unsettled. I was dissociating and having flashbacks since the moment my “friend” ditched me.)
The parent group, Cursillo, made it clear that you don’t hang on to people like that. You give them a ride home. The weekend is not meant to “fix” people. However, the incest survivor apparently believed she could “fix” me – i.e. turn me into someone who submits to, and enjoys, lots of hugs – during the course of the weekend. A sort of primitive and bizarre exposure therapy, apparently.
However, as “Pauline” says, *“For counseling, trust is required; to persist in the face of its refusal is, quite simply, to try to maneuver the person into the vulnerable position of counselee. This is what, to my mind, she did. It is painful beyond measure to me to have someone to whom I have not give my trust pry into my soul and try to “help” me.” *
Forcing therapy on people against their will is profoundly unethical as well as disrespectful; practicing therapy without a license is illegal.
Toward the end, just like Carol Bonomo, I caved in. I was on a manic high, crowing all their slogans. (I will never forget the incest survivor’s lengthy, groping goodbye hug. It was like being embraced by a maggot.) However, it all dissolved, crumbled and fell apart, on the ride home. I was “myself” again.
iloveangels, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. The information you provided helped me understand and forgive myself for not having resisted more strongly. They do have very powerful techniques.
I look back and thank God. He must have been powerfully with me, to have preserved me through that. I did have nightmares about it for years afterward, but it didn’t touch my faith.
*“I almost trusted her at first, and gave her the explanation about the issues from my past, which was a mistake. She clearly saw it as her job to counsel me. For counseling, trust is required; to persist in the face of its refusal is, quite simply, to try to maneuver the person into the vulnerable position of counselee. This is what, to my mind, she did. It is painful beyond measure to me to have someone to whom I have not give my trust pry into my soul and try to “help” me.” *
This is what happened to me. When I arrived, with my sponsor (whom I’d admired and looked forward to sharing the retreat with) I didn’t know another soul. As grinning men took the luggage out of her car, she picked that moment to announce that she would not be attending the retreat at all, but would be spending the weekend with a friend in the nearby town. She was gone before I could even process this.
I had to realize that she hadn’t even given me the correct name for this place or the town I was in. It was a small parish church out in the middle of farming country. A single dusty road passed it, leading to the town – but in which direction? I spent every break looking up and down the road trying to figure out which direction to start walking, where I could find a police station. In hot August, I wasn’t sure how far I could walk without water.
The first thing these strangers told me was that I would not be allowed access to a telephone. (So much for my first panicked idea of placing a collect call to my husband.) I was stripped of my wristwatch, told that bathroom breaks would be strictly scheduled
, and that “GOD wants you here!” They would be the voice of God to me during this weekend.It was that, which was most horrifying to me. That they took my spiritual direction upon themselves. (I was a Carmelite, but they knew God’s will for me better than I did. Better than my freely-chosen spiritual director did.) They told me that the Catholicism I’d studied up until then was “pre-Vatican II” and sick. The smiling attacks on my faith were relentless. God was the community. Hugs were the main sacrament.
And how tragic, it was judged, that I was sick enough not to enjoy hugging. An incest survivor took me under her wing (“I didn’t like hugs, either, until I got therapy”) and played amateur therapist with me for the rest of the weekend. I think she was delighted to find someone with (she felt) commonality. (I am *not *an incest survivor. Not sure where she got that idea, although it must have been clear I was profoundly unsettled. I was dissociating and having flashbacks since the moment my “friend” ditched me.)
The parent group, Cursillo, made it clear that you don’t hang on to people like that. You give them a ride home. The weekend is not meant to “fix” people. However, the incest survivor apparently believed she could “fix” me – i.e. turn me into someone who submits to, and enjoys, lots of hugs – during the course of the weekend. A sort of primitive and bizarre exposure therapy, apparently.
However, as “Pauline” says, *“For counseling, trust is required; to persist in the face of its refusal is, quite simply, to try to maneuver the person into the vulnerable position of counselee. This is what, to my mind, she did. It is painful beyond measure to me to have someone to whom I have not give my trust pry into my soul and try to “help” me.” *
Forcing therapy on people against their will is profoundly unethical as well as disrespectful; practicing therapy without a license is illegal.
Toward the end, just like Carol Bonomo, I caved in. I was on a manic high, crowing all their slogans. (I will never forget the incest survivor’s lengthy, groping goodbye hug. It was like being embraced by a maggot.) However, it all dissolved, crumbled and fell apart, on the ride home. I was “myself” again.
iloveangels, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. The information you provided helped me understand and forgive myself for not having resisted more strongly. They do have very powerful techniques.
I look back and thank God. He must have been powerfully with me, to have preserved me through that. I did have nightmares about it for years afterward, but it didn’t touch my faith.
I
iloveangels
Guest
I really don’t even think this is legal, precisely because you were an adult taken to an unknown occasion and LEFT AGAINST YOUR WILL. If someone did this to me, I’d:
a) get myself rescued.
b) take them to criminal court for holding me captive against my will. Kidnapping.
c) take them to civil court for harrassment, medical cruelty, distress and damages.
In that order.
More testimony for the civil suit. Medical cruelty.The first thing these strangers told me was that I would not be allowed access to a telephone. (So much for my first panicked idea of placing a collect call to my husband.) I was stripped of my wristwatch, told that bathroom breaks would be strictly scheduled
You’re welcome. Yes, people who practice this sort of thing have very powerful techniques, and can be formidable when you can’t escape. It’s very, very unpleasant.
I’m pretty resistant to it, although it’s almost impossible to do anything about it if you’re just one person in a captive audience. And particularly when it’s one of those weird situations where they can claim it’s voluntary, like on the job. About the only thing you can do is ride it out and not make yourself a target for the use of the facilitator, even if you are very resistant to it. They have the upper hand because of the other people in the room, which they know and will use against you. But sometimes you can do something about it later.
I’ve found it’s all around better to make sure you don’t get caught in these kinds of situations in the first place if you possibly can. I would never volunteer for one of these “experiences.”
I
iloveangels
Guest
There are a couple of things going on here, I think.
- Cursillo is pitifully passe and it’s completely possible that its time as a fad is just up. Going to a cursillo is like wearing a mullet, saying GROOVY, and flashing the peace sign out car windows. It’s vintage 70-80s.
- People have the internet now and can discuss these things much more thoroughly than they used to. They realize it’s controversial and chancy now and not just something they might want to up and do.
- People don’t just do anything they’re told to do now. People have seen too much nonsense go on in the Church so they’re more wary than they used to be about “funny stuff.”
- The church is going through a cleansing of sorts, and a lot of the crazier stuff has waned. There’s more genuine catechesis going on, both from some dioceses, from the Holy see and online. We have things now like the Vatican website and the CCC.
- GENUINE REAL spiritual organizations are much easier to find. I’m speaking of things like the Lay Carmelites and the Benedictine Oblates and the Secular Franciscans. These give some of these people what they’re really looking for instead of some sort of abusive and secretive fad.
Not only that, if they don’t have their schmaltzy secret surprises gimmick anymore, what makes them think anyone would be interested in coming? Are they going to be giving away Tupperware favors or something?
K
KimberlyAnn0218
Guest
Sigh…
I am a strong woman. You don’t tell me what to do easily. I am blessed to be well educated–I didn’t say I was smart, I was blessed to have the opportunity and ability to become a nurse and earn a master’s degree. I am not comfortable with the charasmatic movement–I don’t put down those who are, but it is just a little too out there for me. So I don’t go to those things. Why do I say these things? To demonstrate that I think about things before doing them.
I didn’t come to my faith easily. I started this thread with a simple question almost a year ago. Becuase of the way things were worded on this thread I almost didn’t go. My in-laws went to curcillo and my sister-in-law was going (her husband just went) he and my inlaws are very reasonable people. No one had a bad experieince. My MIL haas multiple health problems-there was no proble, with that. My weekeknd had a blind woman and nearly term pregnant woman, and a host of other ailments. There were no problems. You COULD surrender you cell phone if you really wanted that unattached feeling. I did not, many people used theirs, watches were fine. Windows covered startegically for privacy, but not enough to darken the room. I went on unescorted walks, off campus. There was free time, but not tons due to the number of talks. I thought the suprose there’s a teram member at your table was cool. We were very proud of her. The food was awesome. Proteins, Carbs, Fruit veggies and service with a smile and a “no, thank-you we will do the dishes for you.”
I saw them be concerend about people who were chronically late- concerned for their well-bing and if they could help NOT controlling. There is no illegal activity here-they take you willingly to Cursillo and yep mystery is amrt of it. Luive with it or don’t go. Period. Go to a differnt thing.
My bottom line that I have said over and over is don’t discredit the whole movement for what has hapened to you or for those of you who haven’t actually gone and made up your minds and 2nd and 3rd hand information ( which is not always a bad thing to do, I know that) admidt that you had a poor time, they were poorly treated, etc, and that it may not be that case everywhere. Tell on teh bad ones, absoutely! Ask thsoe of us with good experieinces to help offer how theirs was to illustrate further how porrly a bad one was done. There is no evil plot afoot, but we are all humans, prone to take things to extremes sometimes.
I almost didn’t go because of comments made by people on THIS thread. I am glad I was able to take a small leap of faith and go. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
I am a strong woman. You don’t tell me what to do easily. I am blessed to be well educated–I didn’t say I was smart, I was blessed to have the opportunity and ability to become a nurse and earn a master’s degree. I am not comfortable with the charasmatic movement–I don’t put down those who are, but it is just a little too out there for me. So I don’t go to those things. Why do I say these things? To demonstrate that I think about things before doing them.
I didn’t come to my faith easily. I started this thread with a simple question almost a year ago. Becuase of the way things were worded on this thread I almost didn’t go. My in-laws went to curcillo and my sister-in-law was going (her husband just went) he and my inlaws are very reasonable people. No one had a bad experieince. My MIL haas multiple health problems-there was no proble, with that. My weekeknd had a blind woman and nearly term pregnant woman, and a host of other ailments. There were no problems. You COULD surrender you cell phone if you really wanted that unattached feeling. I did not, many people used theirs, watches were fine. Windows covered startegically for privacy, but not enough to darken the room. I went on unescorted walks, off campus. There was free time, but not tons due to the number of talks. I thought the suprose there’s a teram member at your table was cool. We were very proud of her. The food was awesome. Proteins, Carbs, Fruit veggies and service with a smile and a “no, thank-you we will do the dishes for you.”
I saw them be concerend about people who were chronically late- concerned for their well-bing and if they could help NOT controlling. There is no illegal activity here-they take you willingly to Cursillo and yep mystery is amrt of it. Luive with it or don’t go. Period. Go to a differnt thing.
My bottom line that I have said over and over is don’t discredit the whole movement for what has hapened to you or for those of you who haven’t actually gone and made up your minds and 2nd and 3rd hand information ( which is not always a bad thing to do, I know that) admidt that you had a poor time, they were poorly treated, etc, and that it may not be that case everywhere. Tell on teh bad ones, absoutely! Ask thsoe of us with good experieinces to help offer how theirs was to illustrate further how porrly a bad one was done. There is no evil plot afoot, but we are all humans, prone to take things to extremes sometimes.
I almost didn’t go because of comments made by people on THIS thread. I am glad I was able to take a small leap of faith and go. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
B
BlueRoses12
Guest
I agree. One friend I related this experience to me, stunned me by saying, point-blank, “You were kidnapped.” According to Merriam-Webster’s dictionary, I was. (Kidnap: to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud.)
[list of steps]
Who’d believe me? Even* I* didn’t fully believe me, for a long time. I think I went into shock, and put it on ice. I was … beyond scared. And nowhere near strong enough to carry out those steps.
I have a psychiatric history. Everything I say is going to be seen through that lens.
Furthermore, they can claim consent. Since I did not immediately start screaming, but numbly followed my new captives, they can say I was going of my own free will.
Besides, they were so nice. Oh, so nice. Smile, smile, smile. Nice and sweet and loving and blazingly demonstrative – gushing geysers of kindness. The woman who explained the health benefits of living without a wristwatch, claiming she’d sworn off hers, was so incredibly nice as she gathered ours. (She never explained how one could get to one’s appointments on time in the real world without one.)
The man who, in the first few minutes of teaching our first class, burst into tears and started sobbing – well, how could one be cold enough not to melt at the sight of a man crying? (That’s almost sacred!) The incest survivor was so deeply concerned about my welfare due to my neurotic aversion to hugs, because everyone knows you need at least 10 hugs a day. Smile, smile, smile. We care so much about you. We’re just doing this for your own good.
This was my friend, who’d trapped me here. I met her in the Carmelites. We were postulants together, novices, took our first profession together. I thought I knew her. I’d assumed, at least, since she was a Christian, a certain baseline of morality. (Wrongly – obviously!) I’m still flummoxed – since she had the Carmelites, what on earth did she need this for? It was like a diamond merchant gushing with joy over their new cubic zirconia. “Look at this lovely ring! It turns my finger green, but …”
People keep saying that it’s up to those who go to bad weekends to report it. It’s our responsibility to clean up the system, apparently. *Why? * Why is it up to us to report bugs, rather than those who got the system up and running, to check for bugs before going online? Why should we be expected to be their quality control? If they aren’t up to the responsibility, if they don’t know what they’re doing, they shouldn’t do it at all. “First, do no harm.”
Frankly, I was so used to being smilingly ignored and my stated wishes sweetly thwarted during the weekend, so accustomed to others confidently acting as God’s mouthpiece, I had no reason to believe anyone higher up would listen any more closely.
The very core idea of the weekend, as it originated (not as it was watered down by more sane people) is problematic. Again, as I said before, this is like those trust falls. I’m sure many people have had a great time falling backward into a group’s linked arms. How inspiring. Yet a sizable number of people have been badly injured.
*Why do it at all? * Why teach people a lesson (“always trust the people around you”) that is grossly misguided? Even if you don’t get hurt during the trust fall, even if you find it fun, indiscriminate trust is an impractical, self-defeating thing to learn.
As “Pauline” said, whoever came up with the idea that it’s good for your spiritual life to be helpless before another human being? Traditions may not be followed exactly, but all of the traditional hallmarks of these weekends are aimed at encouraging passivity and putting candidates into a childlike, helpless mindset. To set up a situation that gives fallible human beings this level of control and power over others, is so wrong.
Finally … there are two separate ideas here that are mutually exclusive but are given, almost as commands, at the same time. “Open up and trust!” vs. “Watch your back!” We’re told this is a precious experience *precisely because *it teaches us to be open and to abandon all self-protection; yet, when things go pear-shaped, it’s our fault because we weren’t careful enough. It’s a Catch-22.
Oh, believe me, I never will again. That woman is no longer my friend, and I’ve learned a searing lesson about being too trusting toward the Body of Christ.
My apostolate is to clue people in, to warn them about this type of weekend so they aren’t blindsided like I was.
M
Mummsie
Guest
Kimberly Ann, I too consider myself a strong woman. I managed a $100M distribution center in a fairly male dominated industry. I know how and when to say “enough”. But I found nothing to object to at Cursillo. I am also a control freak
Though difficult, letting go of my day was a weight lifted from my shoulders.
I do believe it is very important for these “extremist leaders” to be corrected. The damage they are doing to some of the participants is heart-breaking. But these participants need to speak up to their priests and Bishops. Though letting off steam on this thread may be cathartic, it’s not getting to the right people. I hope they will make a difference by making a call to the appropriate people.
I recall the concerns you had initially with Cursillo. I am so glad the Holy Spirit helped you to make that leap of faith.
God Bless You.
Though difficult, letting go of my day was a weight lifted from my shoulders.I do believe it is very important for these “extremist leaders” to be corrected. The damage they are doing to some of the participants is heart-breaking. But these participants need to speak up to their priests and Bishops. Though letting off steam on this thread may be cathartic, it’s not getting to the right people. I hope they will make a difference by making a call to the appropriate people.
I recall the concerns you had initially with Cursillo. I am so glad the Holy Spirit helped you to make that leap of faith.
God Bless You.
E
ElizMary
Guest
This follow up post is really for the newcomer who is considering Cursillo and reading all the negative reviews. I want to point out that I am a new “convert” to the Catholic faith, having been received in full communion a year and half ago. I was blessed with a fantastic RCIA team. Before my first visit to a Catholic Mass I had a lot of misinformation. It’s not that people lied to me. My mom thought Catholicism bred too much guilt, my husband (raised Catholic) told me it was an elitist religion, lapsed Catholics told me it messed up their relationship with a loving God, etc. These people weren’t lying…that’s just their perspective based on who was exposing them to Catholicism. Thank God I found the parish I did! I love being Catholic and I enjoyed the Cursillo weekend. I had good facilitators and good company. I left feeling an immense sense of gratitude. I like hanging out with serious Catholics. Not perfect, but sincerely practicing the Faith. I hope if you are considering Cursillo you will also weigh in on my experience.
As to those who were hurt, I am sorry. Humans are, well, human. I hope you will come to forgive those who did a poor job and move on to what God has called us to do.
Peace be with you.
As to those who were hurt, I am sorry. Humans are, well, human. I hope you will come to forgive those who did a poor job and move on to what God has called us to do.
Peace be with you.
M
mnm67
Guest
I’ve just read through most of this thread, but can’t find my answer. Can someone please tell me if you must make a Cursillo through your own diocese? I have spoken to the person ‘in charge’ in our diocese, and I unfortunately cannot follow 2 of the rules they have (no cell phone and can’t drive yourself) because of needing to be available for my mother. Thanks in advance!
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