Cutting Down Priests on Cruise Ships

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I happen to be a big time cruiser and have cruised 47 times with 7 different cruise lines.

The Holland American ships have priests that have daily mass for us Catholics. The priest also will have a service for Christians who are non-denominational too every day.
I had a lot of fun attending Mass every day.
I helped the priest too with collecting money for his parish and getting everything ready for him too. I also passed out prayer books and bibles.

The Chystal Cruiseline also has priests on their ships. One of our parish priest cruised for free on a 30 day cruise on the Chystal cruiseline.

Another priest from our church had a friend that was going to be the priest on the HAL cruise ship the Eurodam last spring. So that ship had two priests on that ship for one week.

I once interviewed a priest who told me that there is a list of ships who may need a priest on a certain time frame so he looks to see which ship he wants to cruise on.

Sometimes people themselves make requests to have a Christian service and provide their own minister. Jewish people also will invite a Rabi friend to provide a service for them too sometimes on Jewish Holidays.

I estimated that approx. 30 persons would show up for mass everyday on the Holland America ship. I cruised on the Oosterdam and on the Ziderdam ships.

I haven’t noticed Carnival, Princess or Royal Caribbean having any religious service of any kind unless some Christians get together to have their own private service.

I tape the Catholic Mass on my t.v. so when I get home I can participate in the mass in my home when I return from a cruise. I have informed my priest about that and he said that was okay.
I don’t know what year it started but for some of you who don’t know… it is okay to attend mass during the week and count it as a Sunday obligation according to my parish.
It changed from being a mortal sin to a venial sin if you don’t attend church.
I guess this information was given to all the Catholic priests from our Pope. But our priests don’t like to pass on this new information.
I will ask my priest what date that changed.
 
LilyM said:
OK, so let’s take a reasonable size cruise ship, say it carries 1000 people. Of those, there wouldn’t be more than 25% identifying as Catholic, so probably 250 people.

Out of those 1000 people on the cruise ship, you might get a whopping 5 to 12.5 people going to Mass every day.
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No, it would be more. 5% (12.5 out of 250) of US Catholics attend weekday Mass when on shore. And as you said the proportion would be a lot higher when people are on a cruise and have the time and oppotunity.
would 5-12.5 of the other passengers get quite offended if there was a Catholic priest on board to minister to the Catholics but not a cleric of their own faith for them? Almost certainly.
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Pretty unlikely I would think. Especially if the priest also provides a generic Christian service for non-Catholics as LaLucia mentioned.
 
LaLucia said:
I tape the Catholic Mass on my t.v. so when I get home I can participate in the mass in my home when I return from a cruise. I have informed my priest about that and he said that was okay.
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Yes, “okay” in the sense that it’s a good thing to do. But it doesn’t replace your obligation to go to Mass every Sunday and HDO if at all practicable.
I don’t know what year it started but for some of you who don’t know… it is okay to attend mass during the week and count it as a Sunday obligation according to my parish.
It changed from being a mortal sin to a venial sin if you don’t attend church.
I guess this information was given to all the Catholic priests from our Pope. But our priests don’t like to pass on this new information.
I will ask my priest what date that changed.
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Your priest is mistaken. The Pope said quite the opposite to all the priests of the world in Dies Domini in 1998. See e.g. vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html

*"6. Given this array of new situations and the questions which they prompt, it seems more necessary than ever to recover the deep doctrinal foundations underlying the Church’s precept, so that the abiding value of Sunday in the Christian life will be clear to all the faithful. In doing this, we follow in the footsteps of the age-old tradition of the Church, powerfully restated by the Second Vatican Council in its teaching that on Sunday “Christian believers should come together, in order to commemorate the suffering, Resurrection and glory of the Lord Jesus, by hearing God’s Word and sharing the Eucharist, and to give thanks to God who has given them new birth to a living hope through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead (cf. 1 Pt 1:3)”.(8)
  1. The duty to keep Sunday holy, especially by sharing in the Eucharist and by relaxing in a spirit of Christian joy and fraternity, is easily understood if we consider the many different aspects of this day upon which the present Letter will focus our attention.
Sunday is a day which is at the very heart of the Christian life. "

“Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy. In any case, they are obliged in conscience to arrange their Sunday rest in a way which allows them to take part in the Eucharist,”

"79. Sunday emerges therefore as the natural model for understanding and celebrating these feast-days of the Liturgical Year, which are of such value for the Christian life that the Church has chosen to emphasize their importance by making it obligatory for the faithful to attend Mass and to observe a time of rest, even though these feast-days may fall on variable days of the week… The present canonical and liturgical provisions allow each Episcopal Conference, because of particular circumstances in one country or another, to reduce the list of Holy Days of obligation. Any decision in this regard needs to receive the special approval of the Apostolic See, (127) and in such cases the celebration of a mystery of the Lord, such as the Epiphany, the Ascension or the Solemnity of the Body and Blood of Christ, must be transferred to Sunday, in accordance with liturgical norms, so that the faithful are not denied the chance to meditate upon the mystery. (128) Pastors should also take care to encourage the faithful to attend Mass on other important feast-days celebrated during the week. "
*
Unfortunately some of our priests haven’t passed on this actual information.

The duty to attend Mass every Sunday and HDO clearly is a 'grave matter" because it directly relates to the Third Commandment, so deliberately failing in this duty with full knowledge and consent is a mortal sin. This has not changed.

Attending a weekday Mass is a good practice but it does **not **replace attending on Sunday.
 
Thank you for the new information on the Sunday Mass.

I go to confession when I miss Sunday Mass eventhough I watch it on t.v. when I return from my cruises. I also attend Mass during the week to make-up the time I missed on Sunday. I try to do my best to stay in God’s grace.

I was born to cruise and I do wish that all cruiseships had daily Catholic Mass. Maybe someday they will. That is my wish for this new year.
 
LaLucia
I’m sorry if I may have been uncharitable towards your parish priest. Perhaps you misunderstood what he said.

Also it is true that parish priests have the authority to dispense a parishioner from the obligation to attend Mass on a particular occasion or an ongoing basis. But I understand this is only supposed to be done for serious reasons, such as that the parishioner is busy with an urgent work of charity which cannot be postponed to another time.

For further info see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 2039, 2041, 2042, 2180, 2181.
 
It’s ALL about money, friends.

Most cruises are going to cover weekends, when people aren’t working.

Cruise lines used to make it a point to have a priest on board. Why? Certainly not because of some grand esteem for Catholicism. They did it because, once upon a time, many (if not most) Catholics would not take the cruise if they would miss Mass on Sunday.

That’s just simply no longer the case, so there really is no financial incentive for the cruise line to offer the service.

Honestly, how many Catholics give any thought to scheduling Mass when planning a vacation?

I myself would probably have to admit guilt on this matter (though I can’t recall the last vacation I took anyway).
 
Petergee, I notice you live in OZ… it must be a small town. Just kidding.

I live in a super large city of Los Angeles county where most people have to have several jobs to survive living in our expensive city.

We have hospital workers who have to work when told to work wether sp they like it or not.
We have strawberry fields that if they are not picked on Sundays… they get too ripe.

I once had a manager of a strawberry field say that the fruits and veggies don’t know the days of the week.lol. That is true.

I am an old lady with bad knees and a partial vision problem and I try to attend Mass as much as possible. I also attend a Bible class at my church.

Our main priest is not really happy with us parishoners sp. He says most of us have an 8th grade level of understanding the Catholic church. Which is true in my case.

He also dislikes people with cell phones in their ears while writing a check for donation to the church. That erks him. I told him Mother Teresa didn’t care how she got the money and the reasons for giving her money to help her out. She just took it.

He is a wonderful caring priest but seems to be very old fashion in his ways of thinking.
He knows me very well because when I go to confession I have to sit in front of him because of my vision problem. He just tells me…“Go pray in church”. I confess my veniel sp sins too.( I know how to spell but my vision problem doesn’t always send the correct message to my brain at time. This is something new that has started happening to me.)

We do have a radical modern priest who has different beliefs that conform to life today.
But he is also able to look to the time of Jesus and see that their problems are still the same today. For example; a Catholic dies in the ocean with no priest to hear his confession. He said I could just confess directly to God in any situation where there is no priest. That made me feel good since I do cruise a lot.

I try to always stay in God’s grace. That is something I learned a long time ago. God knows we don’t have perfect lives and forgives us for our sins. I truly believe in going to confession everytime I committ a sin. I always feel a lot better.

If all of my priests say it is okay for me to cruise on Sundays then it is okay with me.
They always see me during the week going to Mass. We have daily mass because we do have a large church of 6,000 families. That is a lot of families.

I am leaving on a cruise on Monday to Friday… soon… so there is no reason to not attend Mass. LaLucia
 
Petergee said:
No, it would be more. 5% (12.5 out of 250) of US Catholics attend weekday Mass when on shore. And *as you said *the proportion would be a lot higher when people are on a cruise and have the time and oppotunity.
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I said no such thing - twas your good self said that. I’m more dubersome.

If anecdotal evidence from my own life and the lives of the Catholics I know is anything to judge by, people don’t generally attend Mass more often during holidays - not even those who during the working year say they plan to go to Mass more often when the opportunity presents itself.

For one thing, the idea of having more ‘free’ time while on holidays is often a furphy, we usually fill our time just as much, only with other activities.
Pretty unlikely I would think. Especially if the priest also provides a generic Christian service for non-Catholics as LaLucia mentioned.
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With all respect, firstly I was talking about the necessity to provide for other faiths being a hindrance to providing Catholic priests, as in if a Catholic priest is provided then a ‘generic Christian’ cleric also has to be provided as well. So you’ve nearly made my point, which is that to have a Catholic priest means they’d also have to have other clerics to keep everyone happy.

And if my experience with non-Christians is any guide, they’re not quite as happy with generic services as you think they are. Baptists have a very different style of worship from Lutherans from Evangelicals - all with different emphases, not to mention significant theological differences that might cause tensions unless the sermons are rendered in any incredibly generic style.

There are deep-seated reasons why the different denominations don’t make a habit of worshipping all together in everyday life. What makes you think they would be happier doing so on a cruise?
 
LaLucia, I wasn’t suggesting that your parish priest is wrong to give your permission to miss Sunday Mass.

Don’t feel bad about having an 8th grade level of understanding of the Catholic Church. I know plenty of adults with high IQs who have a 3rd-grade level of understanding of the Catholic Church, if that. And what’s worse they are Content with that and think they know everything there is worth knowing about Catholicism, and certainly enough to constantly carp about what they think is wrong with it.

Lily I was referring to your comment
PRECISELY the same could be said of travellers of all faiths - there’s no reason why Catholics are more likely than others. I’m reminded of Fiddler on the Roof “If I were a rich man … I’d have the time that I lack to sit in the synagogue and pray, seven hours every day!”
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I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this topic. Thanks for an interesting debate.
 
Hi folks,

A couple of comments.
  1. A better reason to have priests onboard is for the Catholic workers on the ship. If you are taking a cruise, you could get a dispensation after finding out there is no priest on the ship. If you are working for Celebrity on their cruise ship, then you pretty much need to find other employment now.
  2. We cruised with Celebrity in the past - a fantastic 11-night millenium cruise, but I canceled plans to cruise with them next year and sent them a note explaining why. We are going to cruise with Holland America for our 25th Anniversary.
 
Spare a thought for the thousands of souls who work on the sea in various capacities and cannot have Mass on a Sunday - cruise ships, cargo ships, oil tankers. fishing trawlers and oil-rigs etc. When I was a young man,many years ago, I was a junior officer on an oil- tanker.and I’m sure my parish priest told me I was exempt from fulfilling my Sunday Mass obligation because of the exceptional circumstances of my job. In six years I think I got to Mass once while serving at sea (went to Mass when on home leave) and that was in Scotland. We docked at six o clock in the morning and at around ten o clock the captain’s voice boomed over the tannoy “all Catholics be ready for Mass at 10.30. bus coming to collect you”…a Protestant captain who knew of Catholic obligations!..I was impressed.
Life at sea brings you close to God in a unique way…the power of the sea is awesome and I have witnessed and been in the most horrendous storms possible…Mother Nature in full roar is a most humbling experience and when you look out across the tumultuous white rage of the sea you become aware of how potentially close death is…I’m sure there are very few atheists at sea. So when you are on your cruises make it a religious experience and pay homage to God for his creation…He may just forgive you for not being at Mass.
GOD BLESS ALL MARINERS AND PROTECT THEM
 
sinnegam said:
Spare a thought for the thousands of souls who work on the sea in various capacities and cannot have Mass on a Sunday - cruise ships, cargo ships, oil tankers. fishing trawlers and oil-rigs etc. When I was a young man,many years ago, I was a junior officer on an oil- tanker.and I’m sure my parish priest told me I was exempt from fulfilling my Sunday Mass obligation because of the exceptional circumstances of my job. In six years I think I got to Mass once while serving at sea (went to Mass when on home leave) and that was in Scotland. We docked at six o clock in the morning and at around ten o clock the captain’s voice boomed over the tannoy “all Catholics be ready for Mass at 10.30. bus coming to collect you”…a Protestant captain who knew of Catholic obligations!..I was impressed.
Life at sea brings you close to God in a unique way…the power of the sea is awesome and I have witnessed and been in the most horrendous storms possible…Mother Nature in full roar is a most humbling experience and when you look out across the tumultuous white rage of the sea you become aware of how potentially close death is…I’m sure there are very few atheists at sea. So when you are on your cruises make it a religious experience and pay homage to God for his creation…He may just forgive you for not being at Mass.
GOD BLESS ALL MARINERS AND PROTECT THEM
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Well said! I made the same point in the post prior to yours. For some reason, most people think the only people to worry about are the passengers.
 
sinnegam said:
Spare a thought for the thousands of souls who work on the sea in various capacities and cannot have Mass on a Sunday - cruise ships, cargo ships, oil tankers. fishing trawlers and oil-rigs etc. When I was a young man,many years ago, I was a junior officer on an oil- tanker.and I’m sure my parish priest told me I was exempt from fulfilling my Sunday Mass obligation because of the exceptional circumstances of my job. In six years I think I got to Mass once while serving at sea (went to Mass when on home leave) and that was in Scotland. We docked at six o clock in the morning and at around ten o clock the captain’s voice boomed over the tannoy “all Catholics be ready for Mass at 10.30. bus coming to collect you”…a Protestant captain who knew of Catholic obligations!..I was impressed.
Life at sea brings you close to God in a unique way…the power of the sea is awesome and I have witnessed and been in the most horrendous storms possible…Mother Nature in full roar is a most humbling experience and when you look out across the tumultuous white rage of the sea you become aware of how potentially close death is…I’m sure there are very few atheists at sea. So when you are on your cruises make it a religious experience and pay homage to God for his creation…He may just forgive you for not being at Mass.
GOD BLESS ALL MARINERS AND PROTECT THEM
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“Mother of Christ, Star of the Sea, Pray for the wanderer, pray for me.”
 
Karl_Keating said:
None of this worries people who register for a cruise sponsored by Catholic Answers. We don’t need to rely on the ship having a Catholic chaplain because we bring our own!

[Here comes the pitch:]

So, if you’re concerned that a cruise you’re eyeing might end up being chaplainless, why not consider our 2010 European cruise instead? We’ll not only have a Catholic priest but a passel of great folks such as those who frequent these forums and who listen to “Catholic Answers Live.”

Our 7-day cruise sails from Venice. Highlights include the walled Dalmatian city of Dubrovnik and Ephesus, where we’ll have Mass at the Virgin Mary’s house.

We offer two optional events: a pre-cruise tour of Venice and a post-cruise tour and pilgrimage through inland Croatia.

Full details can be found at www.catholicanswerscruise.com.

Karl
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Excellent!

.
 
rlg94086 said:
Hi folks,

A couple of comments.
  1. A better reason to have priests onboard is for the Catholic workers on the ship. If you are taking a cruise, you could get a dispensation after finding out there is no priest on the ship. If you are working for Celebrity on their cruise ship, then you pretty much need to find other employment now.
  2. We cruised with Celebrity in the past - a fantastic 11-night millenium cruise, but I canceled plans to cruise with them next year and sent them a note explaining why. We are going to cruise with Holland America for our 25th Anniversary.
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Kudos for both reasons!

.
 
From the article:
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops was “getting a lot of nasty-grams from passengers about people who were passing themselves off as Catholic priests in good standing – then they would introduce their wives on the fifth or sixth day of the cruise, showing they could celebrate a Mass just like a celibate priest,” Father Oubre told Catholic News Service.
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It makes me wonder how the average Catholic traveller on a cruise ship is supposed to know the standing of anyone wearing a Roman collar . . .

.
 
I have cruised since the 1970’s and I used to notice that some men who would do the Catholic Mass were not really priests but brothers… or whatever.

I would never attend their Mass until one day I was on a Holland America ship and I saw and old priest walking down a hallway on a ship. I asked him if he was a real Catholic Priest and he said, “YES”, and asked me to help him find the Chapel. So I took him to the chapel and helped him and his ship assistant get ready for Mass.
I attended Mass almost every day. It was a joy to spend time with the priest who’s name was Father Parent from an East Coast church. He also spoke French.

Another time I was cruising and I gave my assistant gal cabin steward a gift of real sweet water pearls. She got real happy and said, “I plan to wear them to church”.

St. Anthony of Padua who is the saint of people who cruise on ships is always with me when I cruise. He is the saint of sailors because the ocean used to take him where ever the storms would take him too.

St. Anthony is also the saint of lost items. He has chosen me to find wallets filled with credit cards and money to find the rightful owners. It has happened twice while I have been cruising. I always found the rightful owners and they were so greatful.

Recently when I cruised on the Celebrity Soltice ship that ship felt emotionally cold as ice…
because the workers seemed really unhappy. I thought that was strange.
As I was getting off the ship I felt a hand on my left shoulder and I turned around and there was nobody there. I smiled to myself and knew some angel was with me. It made me happy because as I was leaving some custom’s man wanted me to go to the back of the line of people because he said I cut in front of people. I argued that I didn’t cut in front of people and that I was left behind by my tour group and needed to get off as soon as possible. Some kind lady said I could get in front of her so the customs man let me and my friend and my porter get in front of her. 'WHEW".

It has becomed a real hassell to travel today with the fear of terrorists so I have decided just to cruise from my home ports where I feel safe in case of an emergency.
There are 6 ports in the west coast where I come from.
 
Hang on - there ARE quite a few Catholic priests in perfectly good standing out there who are married y’know.

They are usually either of the Eastern Catholic persuasion rather than Latin (mind you, one can be biritual - in other words able to celebrate Mass as well as Eastern Divine Liturgy) or else they are convert clergy from Anglicanism or other non-Catholic Christian denominations who have been permitted specially to remain married and still be ordained as Catholic priests.

So we can’t make any conclusions about the lack of good standing of these poor priests simply based on confusion over the fact that they were married - it’s quite possible to be a married priest AND in good standing.

We need more education out there, people.
 
LilyM said:
Hang on - there ARE quite a few Catholic priests in perfectly good standing out there who are married y’know.

They are usually either of the Eastern Catholic persuasion rather than Latin (mind you, one can be biritual - in other words able to celebrate Mass as well as Eastern Divine Liturgy) or else they are convert clergy from Anglicanism or other non-Catholic Christian denominations who have been permitted specially to remain married and still be ordained as Catholic priests.

So we can’t make any conclusions about the lack of good standing of these poor priests simply based on confusion over the fact that they were married - it’s quite possible to be a married priest AND in good standing.

We need more education out there, people.
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True, but there would be very few if any married Catholic priests accredited in good standing who are working on American-based cruise ships. And if there were, there would be no reason for them to hide their wives away until five days into the cruise when the Catholics on board had been lulled and compromised into treating them as “Catholic priests”.

The “priests” the article is talking about caused a scandal a few years ago. They were actually Latin-rite priests who had taken a vow of celibacy who had left the priesthood and been laicised (or who had simply walked out and got married and started living as a layman without being laicised). Since then the USCCB has had a system going with the cruise ship companies where they check the bona fides of anyone claiming to be a Catholic priest in good standing.

But in this and any other situation, there’s nothing wrong with making your own enquiries with the diocese or order the priest claims to belong to, and asking him to show you his accreditation from his bishop to say Mass in that place. A genuine Catholic priest shouldn’t be offended at such a request.
 
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