"Dark Night of the Soul"

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I have read a small part of this book. I was drawn to it because of the title, which I often here people allude to in the same vein, as being thought to represent a period of great spirtual suffering. But if I understand the small part I read (I stopped because I am a woman and it is written by a male religious and somehow seemed to be intended for same), it is the very opposite: the “dark night” is a time of beautiful, mystical union with Jesus, and refers literally to nighttime.

I am specifically concerned with this with regard to a problem I have been having for a long time not being able to sleep at night. Often I find myself joyful in these precious hours, as now, but also anxious, as I feel I should be sleeping like “normal” people, and there are the worries of daytime obligations which for a long time, when this first started, I had trouble attending to. But for awhile I trusted in the Lord that if he wanted me to sleep I would sleep, and I found that I was making the appointments, et cetera, I needed to make, and everything was working out just fine.

But now I am anxious again, recent upheaval in my situation, relocation, not sure if my nocturnal habits will be accepted here where I am, but also wondering whether my anxiety is the problem, lots of people are up late (my mother continues to enforce the idea of keeping “normal hours” as oh-so important and I am presently subject to her influence.) I am disabled and don’t work. I just worry about maybe keeping others up or getting in trouble. Also, there is the problem of loving coffee and cigarettes and this obviously is a complication of the special value I am presenting here of nighttime–I know that prayer vigils are frequently observed in monasteries (but coffee and cigarettes–obviously wouldn’t be a part of that, fasting, instead; they relate to my disability.)

Anybody read Dark Night of the Soul?
 
I lived an experience that can be no other than Dark Night of the Soul. The “exciting” part started June 8, 2001, and lasted until just last week, 10/3/2012, when I finally determined that the “wars” in me are over. And since Wednesday 10/3/2012, I have had a serenity I could not have known from any poetry. The closest thing I can compare it to is the last two stanzas of the soul.

It was scary. I got involuntarily locked up in a mental ward my first day, a few hours after a very scary experience in the cathedral. That was the end of my 20 year engineering career.

But now that it’s over, I look back and see I was in Good Hands the whole time. It was scary, but apparently that was a part of my “purgative contemplation” (I think that’s the term St. John of the Cross uses) because now I look back and see it as all wonderfully beautiful – even the horrible hallucinations have meaning to me now when I think about them, and I have no desire to turn back the clock to have avoided even one second of that precious but at times bitter, medicine that was the healing from the Holy Spirit, aka the Divine Therapist. 👍

Don’t get me wrong; it wasn’t all bitter. Sometimes it was so wonderful it seemed miraculous. I was put into situations where I behaved in ways I never could have guessed, but were entirely apropos to my situation. I also behaved in ways that weren’t, and they got me into a bit of trouble. :rolleyes:

The beginning of my healing started a month later, on July 11, when I met a spiritual director for the first time.

From what you say, I think there is something to your observations about why you like to do things at night. I had many times when I’d get up at midnight or 2 am, and go driving – but I’ll want much more time to talk about them.

For me, it was scary – but I don’t think there’s any reason it has to be. And I’m not saying because you’re doing these things that you’re “in” the Dark Night. I have no way of knowing. What I do hear from your posts, is that you are thinking of how your behavior is patterned after the souls described in the stanzas. And I think that’s worth discussion.

In darkness, and secure,
by the secret ladder, disguised,
– ah, the sheer grace! –
in darkness and concealment,
my house being now all stilled.

When you feel safe, when you don’t have other things you’re supposed to do or people who need you to be elsewhere than you are, you can relax a bit with your coffee. I see the “secret ladder” maybe as a way to get your mind away from things without anybody (some of the spirits?) knowing that you’re escaping your anxious, active life. Do not take this as an interpretation. It is just my personal “reaction” to the stanzas at this moment.

So am I hearing that you might like to have a more regular schedule? Is being up late at night causing problems? If so, then I’m thinking we can isolate what it is that you like being up for, and if we get to a sufficient level of abstraction, apply those principles to your active life.

My first wonder is, have you ever heard of contemplative prayer? It is a way to seek Divine Union, and doesn’t require becoming psychotic like the way I did. I was psychotic when I started it, and now 11 years later I’m no longer psychotic and that type of prayer was a key factor. It’s about learning how to “rest in God” and let Him heal you – it’s a bit dark night-ish in that it takes you into your “inner room” away from the cares of the world, like the darkness in the stanzas refer to being “still.” For more info on the three expressions of prayer – vocal, meditative, and contemplative – see CCC 2700-2724.

Alan
 
But if I understand the small part I read …], it is the very opposite: the “dark night” is a time of beautiful, mystical union with Jesus, and refers literally to nighttime.
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OP, please try not to understand so lofty a work by reading just a few chapters. St. Teresa of Avila also wrote about this, as have other saints who experienced it. Notably, St. Faustina, Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, St. Therese of Lisieux, who are among the most recent.

Trust me, from all that they wrote of it, this is not simply a “beautiful nighttime mystical union,” but rather the prelude to “transforming” union, through which a soul gifted with this purification undergoes many trials and extreme suffering, thinking God has abandoned it.

It helps to read other accounts from those who wrote of it, because St. John can be difficult to understand. Perhaps you only read the beginning that speaks about the “dark night of sense” and not the dark night of the spirit that very few undergo. Most of us just aren’t ready, spiritually. He wrote primarily for the contemplative nuns in Carmel whose vocation to prayer would acclamate them to the possibility of experiencing this night.
 
Could someone expound on the exact definition of “dark night of the soul”? Reading this thread I’m not sure if it means a feeling of spiritual abandonment by God, or a feeling of filling up with the Holy Spirit and having “issues” due to that. Personally I thought it was the former not the latter. If so, I think I’ve had nearly 43 years of that until just recently 🙂
 
Sebrina said:
Could someone expound on the exact definition of “dark night of the soul”? Reading this thread I’m not sure if it means a feeling of spiritual abandonment by God, or a feeling of filling up with the Holy Spirit and having “issues” due to that. Personally I thought it was the former not the latter. If so, I think I’ve had nearly 43 years of that until just recently 🙂
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Dark Night of the Soul is a book by St. John of the Cross and I’m not an expert in it as far as intellectually, in part because I’ve never read the book all the way through. 😛

But I have lived a transformational part of my life, and that’s what I think is probably the main theme, is that it is transformative. It changes us and prepares us. It can be beautiful, scary, and in my case it was pretty dramatic, accompanied by severe psychosis, with a great deal of mania, depression, and I’d even say a bit of dissociative disorder a couple times. :bigyikes:

St. John talks of “purgative contemplation” which is a purification that happens during the Dark Night, and I take it to be essentially getting an early start on purgatory. It can be messy, though, so you have to be strong in your faith and trust in the Lord greatly, to see you through it. :knight2:

That’s why I like the idea of contemplative prayer. It brings us into union with Him, without necessarily having to get to the point of despair or psychoses or alcoholism or any of the other things people go through, trying to make their lives better but not knowing God. Or at least – not YET.

“Experts” may have a more informed opinion. 😉

Alan
 
Huh, is this catching, like a virus or what? 🙂 Just kidding. I just posted on another thread about some tapes that were and still may be available from the Carmelite Monastery in Darien, Illinois on the writings of St. John. Some of you may want to check it out. I have no idea if they are still available, and I donated mine to a church library.

That being said. I too have been reading “The fulfillment of all Desire”. Got a bit creeped out by the discussion of Hell. But I will pick it up again.

I have been going through some purging recently - this tends to come in waves for me. I am in it, then my shields go up again. I find that frequent Mass and Communion helps, as well as frequent reconciliation - as in once a month or so. OP, if you are homebound, you might check and see if someone could bring you Holy Eucharist daily.

In my less aware times, it seemed like Jesus was with me, very present in my life. Now he seems absent in the “feeling him there sense”. What I am finding from time to time is that he is present to me in others, in the readings, in a homily. Sometimes it is only a phrase, but something I find enlivening and reassuring. I am finding a desire to let go of “things” and have for years. Now it is more trying for some self-denial which I am not very good at.

I wish I could find a spiritual director. I may have to ask my pastor about this again. Is it possible God does not want me to have one? Doesn’t sound like God.

I see I have kind of a stream of consciousness thing going here. It was just good to find some others who have or are dealing with this in some way. It is as I said above, it is like finding him in others. Thank you and God bless you on this thread. I will keep you in my prayers and please keep me in yours.
 
Ohana said:
Thank you and God bless you on this thread. I will keep you in my prayers and please keep me in yours.
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As but one poster in the thread, I thank you for the sentiments. Honestly, I believe the Holy Spirit is starting to totally “ramp up” His influence on these boards. At least it seems like it because all of a sudden I’m finding like-minded people, really great suggestions, friendlier discussions, etc. 👍

Alan
 
Sirach2 said:
Trust me, from all that they wrote of it, this is not simply a “beautiful nighttime mystical union,” but rather the prelude to “transforming” union, through which a soul gifted with this purification undergoes many trials and extreme suffering, thinking God has abandoned it.

It helps to read other accounts from those who wrote of it, because St. John can be difficult to understand. Perhaps you only read the beginning that speaks about the “dark night of sense” and not the dark night of the spirit that very few undergo. Most of us just aren’t ready, spiritually. He wrote primarily for the contemplative nuns in Carmel whose vocation to prayer would acclamate them to the possibility of experiencing this night.
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Aye. The book I’m reading right now by TAN books, “The Ways of Mental Prayer” by Rt. Rev Lehodey makes the Dark Night of the Senses sound like a horror story which St. Catherine of Sienna almost committed suicide while going through it. And that’s just the Dark Night of the Senses, which is the more milder of the two Dark Nights. I can’t imagine what the Dark Night of the Spirit is like.
 
forpain said:
the “dark night” is a time of beautiful, mystical union with Jesus, and refers literally to nighttime.
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:nope:

Far from it.

The “dark night of the soul” is one of the harshest trials to be experienced, and one that few reach, even fewer overcome. It is something that is present day and night.
Psalm 22
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?
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O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent.
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Psalm 88
O Lord, the God who saves me, day and night I cry out before you.
…]
You have put me in the lowest pit, in the darkest depths.
…]
Why, O Lord, do you reject me and hide your face from me?
…]
My one companion is darkness.
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I guess a saint would call it “beautiful”, inasmuch as it is a most sorrowful share in the cross of the Beloved Lord.
 
DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL
INTRODUCTION
SOMEWHAT reluctantly, out of respect for a venerable tradition, we publish the Dark Night as a separate treatise, though in reality it is a continuation of the Ascent of Mount Carmel and fulfils the undertakings given in it: The first night or purgation is of the sensual part of the soul, which is treated in the present stanza, and will be treated in the first part of this book. And the second is of the spiritual part; of this speaks the second stanza,
which follows; and of this we shall treat likewise, in the second and the third part, with respect to the activity of the soul; and in the fourth part, with respect to its passivity.1

This ‘fourth part’ is the Dark Night. Of it the Saint writes in a passage which follows that just quoted: And the second night, or purification, pertains to those who are already proficient, occurring at the time when God desires to bring them to the state of union with God. And this latter night is a more obscure and dark and terrible purgation, as we shall say afterwards.2 In his three earlier books he has written of the Active Night, of Sense and of Spirit; he now proposes to deal with the Passive Night, in the same order. He has already taught us how we are to deny and purify ourselves with the ordinary help of grace, in order to prepare our senses and faculties for union with God through love.

He now proceeds to explain, with an arresting freshness, how these same senses and faculties are purged and purified by God with a view to the same end—that of union. The combined description of the two nights completes the presentation of active and passive purgation, to which the Saint limits himself in these treatises, although the subject of the stanzas which he is glossing is a much wider one, comprising the whole of the mystical life and ending only with the Divine embraces of the soul transformed in God through love.

The stanzas expounded by the Saint are taken from the same poem in the two treatises. The commentary upon the second, however, is very different from that upon the first, for it assumes a much more advanced state of development. The Active Night has left the senses and faculties well prepared, though not completely prepared, for the reception of Divine influences and illuminations in greater abundance than before. The Saint here postulates a principle of dogmatic theology—that by himself, and with the ordinary aid of grace, man cannot attain to that degree of purgation which is essential to his transformation in God. He needs Divine aid more abundantly. ‘However greatly the soul itself labours,’ writes the Saint, 'it cannot actively purify itself so as to be in the least degree prepared for the Divine union of perfection of love, if God takes not its hand and purges it not in that dark fire.'3
1Ascent, Bk. I, chap. i, § 2.
2Op, cit.,

DARK NIGHT
OF THE SOUL
by
Saint John of the Cross
DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH
THIRD REVISED EDITION
Translated and edited, with an Introduction,
by E. ALLISON PEERS
from the critical edition of
P. SILVERIO DE SANTA TERESA, C.D.
IMAGE BOOKS

peace
 
forpain said:
I have read a small part of this book. I was drawn to it because of the title, which I often here people allude to in the same vein, as being thought to represent a period of great spirtual suffering. But if I understand the small part I read (I stopped because I am a woman and it is written by a male religious and somehow seemed to be intended for same), it is the very opposite: the “dark night” is a time of beautiful, mystical union with Jesus, and refers literally to nighttime.

I am specifically concerned with this with regard to a problem I have been having for a long time not being able to sleep at night. Often I find myself joyful in these precious hours, as now, but also anxious, as I feel I should be sleeping like “normal” people, and there are the worries of daytime obligations which for a long time, when this first started, I had trouble attending to. But for awhile I trusted in the Lord that if he wanted me to sleep I would sleep, and I found that I was making the appointments, et cetera, I needed to make, and everything was working out just fine.

But now I am anxious again, recent upheaval in my situation, relocation, not sure if my nocturnal habits will be accepted here where I am, but also wondering whether my anxiety is the problem, lots of people are up late (my mother continues to enforce the idea of keeping “normal hours” as oh-so important and I am presently subject to her influence.) I am disabled and don’t work. I just worry about maybe keeping others up or getting in trouble. Also, there is the problem of loving coffee and cigarettes and this obviously is a complication of the special value I am presenting here of nighttime–I know that prayer vigils are frequently observed in monasteries (but coffee and cigarettes–obviously wouldn’t be a part of that, fasting, instead; they relate to my disability.)

Anybody read Dark Night of the Soul?
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try this

ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment
 
forpain said:
I have read a small part of this book. I was drawn to it because of the title, which I often here people allude to in the same vein, as being thought to represent a period of great spirtual suffering. But if I understand the small part I read (I stopped because I am a woman and it is written by a male religious and somehow seemed to be intended for same), it is the very opposite: the “dark night” is a time of beautiful, mystical union with Jesus, and refers literally to nighttime.

I am specifically concerned with this with regard to a problem I have been having for a long time not being able to sleep at night. Often I find myself joyful in these precious hours, as now, but also anxious, as I feel I should be sleeping like “normal” people, and there are the worries of daytime obligations which for a long time, when this first started, I had trouble attending to. But for awhile I trusted in the Lord that if he wanted me to sleep I would sleep, and I found that I was making the appointments, et cetera, I needed to make, and everything was working out just fine.

But now I am anxious again, recent upheaval in my situation, relocation, not sure if my nocturnal habits will be accepted here where I am, but also wondering whether my anxiety is the problem, lots of people are up late (my mother continues to enforce the idea of keeping “normal hours” as oh-so important and I am presently subject to her influence.) I am disabled and don’t work. I just worry about maybe keeping others up or getting in trouble. Also, there is the problem of loving coffee and cigarettes and this obviously is a complication of the special value I am presenting here of nighttime–I know that prayer vigils are frequently observed in monasteries (but coffee and cigarettes–obviously wouldn’t be a part of that, fasting, instead; they relate to my disability.)

Anybody read Dark Night of the Soul?
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My friend most people never go through the Dark Night of the Soul. First you must pass through the Dark Night of the senses which means complete detachment from earthly things. If you love Coffee and cigarettes (in other words you would struggle to give them up) then you are most likely not experiencing the Dark Night of the Soul.
 
R_C said:
:nope:

Far from it.

The “dark night of the soul” is one of the harshest trials to be experienced, and one that few reach, even fewer overcome. It is something that is present day and night.

I guess a saint would call it “beautiful”, inasmuch as it is a most sorrowful share in the cross of the Beloved Lord.
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Judging by the amount of threads that pop up dealing with these type of “symptoms” it doesn’t seem all that rare. A lot of people, including myself in the past, had a feeling of abandonment or not being forgiven, even while following God’s laws. Or would you say that this is something different? I’m sure the dark night feels like a sort of spiritual depression which may manifest itself into actual depression?
 
CrimsonThorn said:
Judging by the amount of threads that pop up dealing with these type of “symptoms” it doesn’t seem all that rare. A lot of people, including myself in the past, had a feeling of abandonment or not being forgiven, even while following God’s laws. Or would you say that this is something different? I’m sure the dark night feels like a sort of spiritual depression which may manifest itself into actual depression?
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I understand they vary a lot, but I think a lot of people have some of these individual symptoms without being in a Dark Night situation. I’m not an expert at knowing, but for example one can feel isolated from God and I don’t think that automatically counts as a “Dark Night.”

In my own experience it was very emotionally volatile at the time. The term “emotional roller coaster” doesn’t do it justice. But now after 11 years, it’s over. And honestly I wouldn’t change a thing – even those that got me into trouble – because now it all makes perfect sense. I can see how each experience added one more puzzle piece to the picture of serenity that I haven’t stopped enjoying since last Wednesday. It’s like “dude I made it through the obstacle course” or something. So now I see how beautiful it really was … although other people may not have seen my psychotic behavior that way. There was no doubt from fairly early on that I was purging. And now that it’s all out I feel all better and life is wonderful. Incomparably better than I was even before the whole thing started.

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita said:
I understand they vary a lot, but I think a lot of people have some of these individual symptoms without being in a Dark Night situation. I’m not an expert at knowing, but for example one can feel isolated from God and I don’t think that automatically counts as a “Dark Night.”

In my own experience it was very emotionally volatile at the time. The term “emotional roller coaster” doesn’t do it justice. But now after 11 years, it’s over. And honestly I wouldn’t change a thing – even those that got me into trouble – because now it all makes perfect sense. I can see how each experience added one more puzzle piece to the picture of serenity that I haven’t stopped enjoying since last Wednesday. It’s like “dude I made it through the obstacle course” or something. So now I see how beautiful it really was … although other people may not have seen my psychotic behavior that way. There was no doubt from fairly early on that I was purging. And now that it’s all out I feel all better and life is wonderful. Incomparably better than I was even before the whole thing started.

Alan
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Ah I see. So would you say the soul undergoing a dark night is permitted to feel the suffering and isolation that souls in hell feel, to serve as purgation/purification here on earth?
 
CrimsonThorn said:
Ah I see. So would you say the soul undergoing a dark night is permitted to feel the suffering and isolation that souls in hell feel, to serve as purgation/purification here on earth?
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I don’t know as a rule, but in my life when I was really bad I thought I was either in virtual purgatory or hell – but I also was aware of my surroundings and at least functional to the point of being able to play music for Mass. Actually there were times when I honestly wondered whether my real name was satan or the anti-Christ. Other times I thought I was a new Christ in training, Judas, St. Paul, etc … let’s just say I had a lot of confusion about who I was and how I fit in. As far as isolation, it usually wasn’t too bad but when I was confused about who I was I sometimes felt like I was taking on what I thought they were like. Such as, when I thought I might be Judas, I felt very lonely and ashamed.

Some scary times during Mass, but when I got horrible thoughts I was usually able to bury them in focusing on music. Once, the worst one by far and the only time I saw anything like a visual hallucination – was it seemed Jesus on the crucifix at St. Anthony’s turned into a serpent and moved some while I was playing the pipe organ. Since nobody else was on the small balcony, I actually hid behind the railing and only got up to get on the organ for a Mass part or hymn, then back down. It got even stranger than that, when I found out the diocese exorcist’s brother, whom I hadn’t seen for years, was in attendance for the Mass. Then a few months later the exorcist died unexpectedly. I know it’s stupid to even mention, but from my perspective at the time it was just one more detail in the Grand Weirdness of things.

Sometime around then I feared that I wasn’t going to make it and asked Fr. Busch for anointing of the sick. Later I told him it was partly because I didn’t know if I was going to take my own life, and he said that was a very good reason to get the anointing. Those feelings only lasted a short time, though; it was very unusual for me to consider self-destruction.

All of these things sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, but honestly it all seemed very orchestrated at times and looking back it seems even more so. I don’t know how the entire universe could conspire to run me through kind of a “psychedelic boat ride” like on Willy Wonka, and come out 11 years later feeling perfectly serene. But that’s exactly what it feels like subjectively at least, and I can’t stop singing the praises of God!

I have one bit of advice for anyone going through a radical psychiatric situation: trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean on your faith, believe the Holy Spirit can and will guide you.

Praise to the Lord, the Almighty!

Alan
 
Just reading a book by Father Henri Nouwen who sounded like he had a very serious depression. It is his book on the Eucharistic life and for the life of me, I cannot recall the title at this moment. I will post it tomorrow when I find the book. His books at first seem rather light, then the more you "digest’ them, the deeper they become. Might be supportive to your process Alan. :)🙂
 
From what I understand of St. John of the Cross everyone who embarks on the narrow way will go through the dark night of the senses. The best analogy I could give for the dark night of the senses is that God puts us through a painful withdrawal from the things of this world, not unlike someone who has an addiction and is being withdrawn from that addiction. Hopefully, by the end of the dark night of the senses, most of our attraction to the things and vanity of this world will have been purged from us.

The dark night of the spirit is another matter entirely. According to St. John of the Cross few contemplatives, or saints enter into this realm. It is equivalent to descending into purgatory, or sheol. This dark night of the spirit could last for many years. Eventually, there is the resurrection where one’s own will becomes one with the will of God. One is united perfectly in the love of God. One is no longer self-conscious, but God conscious. Thanks be to our Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s peace

micah
 
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