"Dark Night of the Soul"

  • Thread starter Thread starter forpain
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ohana said:
Just reading a book by Father Henri Nouwen who sounded like he had a very serious depression. It is his book on the Eucharistic life and for the life of me, I cannot recall the title at this moment. I will post it tomorrow when I find the book. His books at first seem rather light, then the more you "digest’ them, the deeper they become. Might be supportive to your process Alan. :)🙂
Click to expand...
Title of the book is With Burning Hearts A Meditation on the Eucharistic Life Sorry I have that senior disease, failure of short term memory! Good Bood
 
Ohana said:
Title of the book is With Burning Hearts A Meditation on the Eucharistic Life Sorry I have that senior disease, failure of short term memory! Good Bood
Click to expand...
Thank you for the suggestion; I’ll look into it. I did check out the TOC at amazon.

My wife says she has read books by that author. 🙂

Peace and joy,
Alan
 
Actually read this some years ago. I forget much of it so may have to read it again. As I recall, either this book by St. John or Ascent of Mt Carmel was incomplete. I think it is Dark Night. As I recall, there were a couple of steps in each dark night, one which the person did and one which God did in him. I suspect the only modern person we know who even approached this is St. Theresa of Calcutta.
 
Ohana said:
I suspect the only modern person we know who even approached this is St. Theresa of Calcutta.
Click to expand...
She didn’t get to the Dark Night of the Spirit. Dark night of the senses, yes, and it lasted a very long time.

BTW: Dark night of the soul is split up into two dark nights- dark night of the sense, and dark night of the SPIRIT, not soul. Dark Night of the Soul is what the poem/book is called and describes the two as being two dark nights.
 
It was quite a long time ago that i tried to begin to read it, at that time it was way too advanced for me, I read something about an embrace by Jesus and being bitten on the neck (am I remembering this correctly?) and it sounded like a male mystical union, so I stopped reading, as I knew I did not understand.

Thank you for all this information about what the “Dark Night” really means.

Yes I wish i had never started drinking coffee but it is encouraged in Catholic and other Christian fellowship gatherings and I took this as an “okay” which made my problem go even deeper (cross-addiction between cigarettes and coffee–a whole life-style if you’re disabled, so it’s a overwhelming matter of habit as well as addiction,)

Like ? said in the first response about night-time driving, it would take a book to write about the ins and outs of my life of coffee and cigarettes and maybe it would be a really boring one, but I will say that caffeine is a pain reliever and cigarettes were useful at one time for a social prop (when I was less disabled) and then kept me from panic when I was hanging in limbo and I held onto that cigarette to skate over the deespest chasms, and now my doctors tell me it helps my anxiety and EVERYBODY always says “don’t try to quit right now, when you’re going through so much.”

I’ve stopped the smoking for more or less a year twice and then found that I inevitably “compensated” with a period of obscenely heavy smoking, the same goes for day-to-day efforts to cut back or quit.

I do feel very close to God but still pull back sometimes to my old self (mocking, cynical), but now I push myself through that, a transformation is definitely happening.

So I guess there are a lot of threads to this for me, these posts definitely help to clear up my understanding a little, I know I do love this world too much, maybe that’s why the desensitizing of my body through all this pain and twisting of my poor frame; I would join a convent if I could and pray all day, I do spend much time in prayer out of necessity and opportunity, but I wouldn’t be able to give up the cigarettes so they wouldn’t take me (anyway, I’ve already heard that a nun needs to be a strong person to serve the Lord, not a cripple looking for refuge.)

I have one question not addressed, is there anything specific about literal nighttime in relation to experiencing the Dark Night?

I admit this is all confusing, my brain has some damage also, I will reflect and come back to it.
 
oops! didn’t see second page and too tired to take it in, things of this world that must be attended to bright and early
 
forpain said:
I have one question not addressed, is there anything specific about literal nighttime in relation to experiencing the Dark Night?
Click to expand...
Don’t know officially, but I see that a literal dark night gives me a model and was coincident with some of my “physical” manifestations of what was going on in my head. For example, when I was really bad and in manic episodes especially, I would get up at 2 am and go cruising around town without even leaving a note. When I did that, I only did it after going around the house, checking to see everyone was safely asleep and all was quiet.

In the same way, the soul can’t venture out unless it’s convinced all is quiet. And with a mind harboring fear, anxiety, shame, anger, and other negative emotions, the mind goes into “protection” mode. Blood is pumped to extremities (defensive posturing) and the immune system is shut down. The mind closes itself off to learning new ideas. So when in this state, the soul is not going to want to venture anything because it’s going to hide behind its protection.

But when all is quiet and tranquil. When we’re in our “inner room” safe from scary and troubling thoughts, emotions, ideas, that’s when we want to elevate ourselves toward a search for True Love. Because love, gratitude, and other positive emotions restore the immune system, reopen our minds for new thoughts, and the soul finds a chance to slip away and search for the lover, without having to constantly worry about things “back home.” “Back home” perhaps being where our responsibilities are that may distract us from the mood of the moment as we search for lover. After all, how is a soul going to be at its best to find and recognize (and woo?) its lover if it’s worried about whether if left the door at home open and the light on?

Alan
 
Generally, the Dark Night of the Soul, is something that few enter and something only the those close to divine union go through.

However, I wonder if there aren’t various levels of the Dark Night, just as there are different mansions we go through, as St Teresa wrote about?

I’m going through some dryness in prayer right now. Having a hard time staying with mental prayer for more than 10 minutes.

Anyway, just wondering. 🤷

Jim
 
forpain said:
It was quite a long time ago that i tried to begin to read it, at that time it was way too advanced for me, I read something about an embrace by Jesus and being bitten on the neck (am I remembering this correctly?) and it sounded like a male mystical union, so I stopped reading, as I knew I did not understand.

Thank you for all this information about what the “Dark Night” really means.

Yes I wish i had never started drinking coffee but it is encouraged in Catholic and other Christian fellowship gatherings and I took this as an “okay” which made my problem go even deeper (cross-addiction between cigarettes and coffee–a whole life-style if you’re disabled, so it’s a overwhelming matter of habit as well as addiction,)

Like ? said in the first response about night-time driving, it would take a book to write about the ins and outs of my life of coffee and cigarettes and maybe it would be a really boring one, but I will say that caffeine is a pain reliever and cigarettes were useful at one time for a social prop (when I was less disabled) and then kept me from panic when I was hanging in limbo and I held onto that cigarette to skate over the deespest chasms, and now my doctors tell me it helps my anxiety and EVERYBODY always says “don’t try to quit right now, when you’re going through so much.”

I’ve stopped the smoking for more or less a year twice and then found that I inevitably “compensated” with a period of obscenely heavy smoking, the same goes for day-to-day efforts to cut back or quit.

I do feel very close to God but still pull back sometimes to my old self (mocking, cynical), but now I push myself through that, a transformation is definitely happening.

So I guess there are a lot of threads to this for me, these posts definitely help to clear up my understanding a little, I know I do love this world too much, maybe that’s why the desensitizing of my body through all this pain and twisting of my poor frame; I would join a convent if I could and pray all day, I do spend much time in prayer out of necessity and opportunity, but I wouldn’t be able to give up the cigarettes so they wouldn’t take me (anyway, I’ve already heard that a nun needs to be a strong person to serve the Lord, not a cripple looking for refuge.)

I have one question not addressed, is there anything specific about literal nighttime in relation to experiencing the Dark Night?

I admit this is all confusing, my brain has some damage also, I will reflect and come back to it.
Click to expand...
‘Literal nighttime’ may have been referenced by St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein) in her overview of the writings of St. John of the Cross in her book, “The Science of the Cross”.

She may have made reference to the suffering of St.John of the Cross while in prison, and his subsequent escape from prison in the night, or to the suffering of our Lord Jesus Christ in the garden of Gethsemane and of the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ prior to dawn

There is always the much more advanced writing of the reknowned Catholic theologian Hans Balthasar who wrote the Mysterium Paschale. In this book, Father Balthasar writes of the Saturday night when Jesus Christ was in sheol. He understood the suffering of Jesus Christ to have been the ultimate of any of what these saints of the dark night have suffered.

I think St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross, and St. Faustina also had this understanding of the dark night of our Lord Jesus Christ in that he suffered more than anyone has ever suffered.

I could give you quotes from these three saints, but I would have to look them up.

God’s peace to you

micah
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Generally, the Dark Night of the Soul, is something that few enter and something only the those close to divine union go through.

However, I wonder if there aren’t various levels of the Dark Night, just as there are different mansions we go through, as St Teresa wrote about?

I’m going through some dryness in prayer right now. Having a hard time staying with mental prayer for more than 10 minutes.

Anyway, just wondering. 🤷

Jim
Click to expand...
CHAPTER XVI.—Explains how, though in darkness, the soul walks securely
CHAPTER XVII.—Explains how this dark contemplation is secret
CHAPTER XVIII.—Explains how this secret wisdom is likewise a ladder
CHAPTER XIX.—Begins to explain the ten steps of the mystic ladder of Divine love,
according to Saint Bernard and Saint Thomas. The first five are here treated
CHAPTER XX.—Wherein are treated the other five steps of love.

peace
 
I am so moved I don’t want to add anything more but thank you, Alan, for explaining it about “literal” nighttime, and I see from what you say that it Does relate in some way to the meaning of the Dark Night, that the Joy I was reaching was Love. I was worried and ashamed I was just “escaping reality.”
 
forpain, perhaps looking at the dark nights as if someone is inside a house and they go out to a recent fresh snow…it takes time for the eyes to adjust to the brightness.
 
I’ve decided to declare mine over, as of a week ago last Wednesday…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Generally, the Dark Night of the Soul, is something that few enter and something only the those close to divine union go through.

However, I wonder if there aren’t various levels of the Dark Night, just as there are different mansions we go through, as St Teresa wrote about?

I’m going through some dryness in prayer right now. Having a hard time staying with mental prayer for more than 10 minutes.

Anyway, just wondering. 🤷

Jim
Click to expand...
I certainly am no expert. I am currently reading “Holy Wisdom” by Dom Augustine Baker and a spiritual classic. Father stresses in his work that each person is uniquely led by The Holy Spirit and while there are general principals that can be applied, each soul is very differently led and for spiritual directors to respect this. This is in his chapters on spiritual directors. I would tend towards that there can be different levels of a Dark Night, while the underlying principals applying remain very much in line with St John of The Cross and his texts which Fr Baker rather often refers to along with St Teresa of Avila.
Usually if one is experiencing spiritual dryness as a result of the usual method of praying drying up as it were, It could be the transition state to contemplation, although I would be consulting a spiritual director. Dryness in prayer can have many causes. If one’s set time of prayer is say 30 minutes, then I tend towards it is best to maintain it though almost impossible to do so. Perhaps have a book of prayers handy. I keep a book of favourite prayers handy. Or even read something prayerfully especially perhaps Scripture - the Psalms or the Gospel and Readings for the day, but not necessarily these. The Book of Job is another good one in times of difficulty - just pause prayerfully when something strikes you. St Teresa of Avila commented that in her early journey in prayer, she kept ‘looking at the clock’ and wanting to ‘shake the hour glass’ - time was passing too slowly for her and it will most especially do this when one is struggling with prayer. Fr Baker does point out that one of the worst things to do is to try to force on oneself, or on others, a method of prayer (as mental prayer is) that is no longer ‘working’ for the person. Sometimes mental prayer time can be an absolute joy and pass quickly, other times a real hard labor with time dragging by very slowly.
I think it is St Teresa of Avila who advocates that the soul should remain free to wander in and out all of the ‘mansions’ and I tend to think that this remains so for life, although my own life, I hope, is far from concluded. One in the sixth mansion, for example, might return (probably temporarily) to the fourth and so on.
Best of all is spiritual direction especially since all the above is certainly coming from no one of expertise.
 
TiggerS said:
I do like your sense of humour, Alan. Must admit that looking at the pic above, I wondered about the resurrection?😃 I do hope not in the above instance:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I agree! It was exciting, but I’m ready for a new experience now… 😃

Alan
 
I haven’t read much in this thread so forgive me if this misses the mark … but here are a few random comments specifically about the passive night of spirit …
  1. These discussions are often difficult because they’re marked by extremes. Yes this night is rare but we shouldn’t think the experience is limited to the canonized. There are people in our very midst … in our parishes, our workplaces, these forums … who taste, at least in some measure, the very words of our Saints. On the other hand, we should not (as is often the case in these threads) chalk up every little bump in the road as sure sign of a dark night.
  2. People enduring the night don’t face it with a woe is me attitude. Loving acceptance … even joy is more the norm: think Mother Teresa’s perpetual smile masking tremendous inner torment. The night doesn’t debilitate the individual … they are highly functioning. Unless one is highly trained to detect the signs (or graced with special intuition) it’s likely you’d never recognize someone is in the night. These souls are generally loathed to talk about it. Perhaps they don’t even know how to put it into words or they are so other focused they think their trials of no particular importance.
  3. There are levels to this night as St. John describes in Dark Night Book 2, chapter one. Perhaps the night comes across as so foreign is because the saints tend to speak of it from their personal experience … one of full immersion. The more typical way (perhaps) is the “little night” of alternating periods of light and darkness where we are slowly weaned over years or even a lifetime … rather than the intense spiritual crucifixion we often see in the saints. We think them different and therefore conclude what we read doesn’t apply to us. But the experience truly is the same … the perspectives are just different. The two ways are like opposite sides of the same coin.
  4. The night of spirit is confined to the spiritually mature. From a prayer perspective, these individuals don’t limit themselves to pious devotions and find no satisfaction in meditation. Rather their way of prayer is one of friendship with Christ that is nearly continuous. It is interior dialogue marked by simplicity and affection. As such it can be described as acquired contemplation punctuated, perhaps, by intermittent moments of infused contemplation.
  5. The experience of the night is strictly interior and “felt” (which isn’t the right word) in our spiritual faculties: intellect, will and memory. In short, what is tested is our capacity to love and what we allow to occupy our minds and hearts. And much of this takes place at the “first movements” of our soul. Think of this as the moment of awareness (or even pre-awareness) of our thoughts, words and actions. The work of this night is to bring purity to these first movements. So in this light we can see this as entirely God’s work, occurring in the depths of our being … a place we have no capacity to influence or control. All we can do is cooperate with His guiding hand.
  6. First movements are like spark plugs in a car … they’re constantly firing: three fires followed by a misfire and so on and so on. Why the misfire? In a word, our imperfections. Not sin … rather the ingrained defects in our make-up that unbeknown to us subtly influence (to the worse) so many aspects of our life. It is the spiritual ramifications of these imperfections that the dark night cures. For example, the talkative person who remains spiritually stunted because they can’t attain to the silence necessary for more profound prayer. Or the individual very adept at carving out moments of solitude in the midst of a hectic life but does not see that his holy desire is tinged with escapism. Or the one who enjoys the comforts of life and thus approaches God from that same point of view by seeking consolation. Or the very organized and methodical individual diligent in his affairs who thinks sanctity can be attained through application of these traits, thereby trying to become a saint through sheer force of will.
  7. The “experience” of night is not so much at the time of prayer but, rather, at all our other times. We are continually brought face to face with our imperfections. So much so that it seems like God, through circumstances of life, is conspiring against us. But, because we are generally unaware of our imperfections and pay no heed to our first movements we are clueless as to what is going on. Thus, lack of understanding is our darkness. And the spiritual anguish it brings is too our darkness.
  8. Lastly, we need to recognize that it is God who brings us into this night and only He can bring us out. He does this through the gift of self-knowledge … Light. Take, for example, the individual who is highly determined and perseveres through all things yet, at the same time is unknowingly disordered because he thinks the key to growth is his own effort. Perhaps in a moment of epiphany it dawns on him that all the ways he is stymied in his holy efforts is really God’s way of saying he needs to let go the need to control. Finally, after years and years, he gets it! And in a flash all the trials associated with this imperfection cease. The soul understands and darkness is lifted. Now all he has to do is cooperate … and a deeper level of union is brought to the soul.
  9. And then God moves on to the next imperfection and the whole cycle of night begins anew!
Dave 🙂
 
DBT said:
I haven’t read much in this thread so forgive me if this misses the mark … but here are a few random comments specifically about the passive night of spirit …
Click to expand...
This is excellent information. Thank you so much for posting!

I think it is the best summary I’ve seen on these boards, and I like the way you discussed the saints v. “regular” people. 👍

Mine was very extreme, but then I’ve always been an extreme thinker. I seldom back down from a chance to learn something, and it doesn’t bother me to think I might be right and 1000 other people are wrong. (I won the 7th grade math contest among 420 school in the Chicago Archdiocese. – actually that helped give me courage a couple times later in life when people were trying to tell me stupid things.) Also later in life, I realized some people – maybe even most – aren’t that way. They will use confusion, headache, distraction, and other mechanisms to avoid accepting new thoughts as (name removed by moderator)ut. I think it isn’t that they don’t want to learn, but they are too tied to their own ways of thinking and afraid new thoughts won’t play nice with their old ones. Anyway enough about being an “extreme” thinker. I can’t blame people for not wanting to learn, personally, because I think we are taught that learning, especially because it involves (gasp) trial and error, is a painful process. One bad teacher can make a person afraid to think new things, IMO.

Anyway … so you can see that pride was a huge issue with me. I didn’t think I was better than other people, but I knew I was better at most academic mental tasks than anyone else around me, and I also didn’t second guess myself. I knew all the time that I was sane, and that people who were “normal” were often telling me things that were non-useful, if not downright ignorant, stupid, or evil. This may have all been true, but this whole construct was held up by what turned out to be a rather nasty case of pride.

Just before I started the Dark Night, I took a break from data entry on the Synod. First time in 198 years our diocese solicited comments from laity. In the week prior, I had processed a few thousand of the anonymous ones that the Synod was calling “private confessions” so I had to go to the chancery office to do it. Now, me having a great deal of empathy, after passing several thousands of messages through to the bishop’s database, I had quite a few people’s opinions on things, which very much validated the issues I’d been pushing as a member of several church committees. But on the same score, it was “mind-expanding” to have all those opinions running around together in my mind – it added to the total richness of the whole experience, and probably downright facilitated it. I was taking a break from that when I crossed the parking lot to the cathedral, where Fr. Carr “officially” set me off.

Yes, it really is true that one can receive sorrow and suffering with peace and joy.

Alan
 
Were your ears burning, Dave? I wondered when you might stop by and help us, and I’m glad you did. As always, well said. Thank you!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top