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Orogeny
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Regardless, it clearly is a scientific theory. I’m not sure how your observation changes that.
Really? I must get up to date on what the scientific community is embracing!
Peace
Tim
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Peace
Tim
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buffalo
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Really now -No one says that the creation of Eve from the side of Adam is a historical fact. Exegetes seem to agree that it is a religious metaphor to stress the relationship of the genders, where neither is subordinate to the other, but both are of the same Divine origin.
Fraternally,
JR
I think you need to read this and pay attention to the refernces:
DID WOMAN EVOLVE FROM THE BEASTS?
A DEFENSE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE
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Valentin
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In my country ( Bulgaria / Europe ), Darwin theory is always related to non God created world understanding, part of comunistic atheism. And somehow related to the theory of the Big explosition and the theory of initial " sea of carbon hydrate " .
so, the opposite is considered the Creationism. now, what I see here is big support to Darwin and even the Church on high level is doing so. It sounds, of course, that insofar I did not read the proper books on the matter, especially from our Church leaders. But please, forgive me my folly, I can’t accept Darwin’s theory as a valid one. with very much pain, first time in my life, I disagree with the Pope.
so, the opposite is considered the Creationism. now, what I see here is big support to Darwin and even the Church on high level is doing so. It sounds, of course, that insofar I did not read the proper books on the matter, especially from our Church leaders. But please, forgive me my folly, I can’t accept Darwin’s theory as a valid one. with very much pain, first time in my life, I disagree with the Pope.
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oriel16
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You are fully certain that you wish to affirm ‘natural selection’,an idea that was borrowed from an essay on racial supremacy and put into practice by Hitler ?.Nobody here can claim unfamiliarity with the line of reasoning which inserted a ‘cause’ into the existing investigations of biological evolution within the context of geological evolution but I will,one more time,present the clear trajectory of reasoning.
If I do not get an appropriate response from a Christian other than complete shock that Darwin’s version of evolution is a basis for challenging Christian precepts then maybe you should all wear swastika and join the empiricists.
“One day something brought to my recollection Malthus’s “Principles of Population,” which I had read about twelve years before. I thought of his clear exposition of “the positive checks to increase”—disease, accidents, war, and famine—which keep down the population of savage races to so much lower an average than that of civilized peoples. It then occurred to me that these causes or their equivalents are continually acting in the case of animals also…” Charles Darwin
’ The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life’
Backtrack to Malthus -
“Till at length the whole territory, from the confines of China to the shores of the Baltic, was peopled by a various race of Barbarians, brave, robust, and enterprising, inured to hardship, and delighting in war. Some tribes maintained their independence. Others ranged themselves under the standard of some barbaric chieftain who led them to victory after victory, and what was of more importance, to regions abounding in corn, wine, and oil, the long wished for consummation, and great reward of their labours. An Alaric, an Attila, or a Zingis Khan, and the chiefs around them, might fight for glory, for the fame of extensive conquests, but the true cause that set in motion the great tide of northern emigration, and that continued to propel it till it rolled at different periods against China, Persia, italy, and even Egypt, was a scarcity of food, a population extended beyond the means of supporting it.” Thomas Malthus
ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/malthus/malthus.3.html
Want to see who thought this was a great idea and put it into practice ?-
“Without consideration of traditions and prejudices, Germany must find the courage to gather our people and their strength for an advance along the road that will lead this people from its present restricted living space to new land and soil, and hence also free it from the danger of vanishing from the earth or of serving others as a slave nation. The National Socialist Movement must strive to eliminate the disproportion between our population and our area—viewing this latter as a source of food as well as a basis for power politics—between our historical past and the hopelessness of our present impotence” Adolf Hitler
So much for the glorious creation that God gives us and the intelligence to appreciate it.However you continue is no longer my concern,as far as I can see you actually prefer to think like an empiricist than act like a Christian.
The problem was never Darwin,the problem is further back in the late 17th century .The great Life of Christ is that he did not submit to injustice and cosy up to the pseudo-authorities,it appears that Christians now do exactly that.
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Orogeny
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Yes I affirm natural selection and I don’t care if Hitler borrowed it or not. That has nothing to do with the validity of natural selection.
What the heck are you talking about?
Excuse me? Pal, if you are looking for a fight, bring it on. I don’t know who you think you are to determine the “appropriate response from a Christian”, but you are wrong. You tread very, very thin ice with your comparing those who don’t give you the “appropriate response from a Christian” to nazis. You need to back away quickly from that position.
That has nothing to do with evolution.
And that has what to do with the reality of evolution?
Typical, arrogant response from a self-appointed prophet.
If the problem isn’t Darwin, why the all the babble from you?
Peace
Tim
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gam197
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It is not the Pope but a misunderstanding of church teaching on evolution that is filtering down.
The theory of initial " sea of carbon hydrate " which I had to look up on the internet sounds like global warming agenda.
Please don’t become disheartened.
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oriel16
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You are clearly not understanding the central imperative and it is an imperative -
You cannot adapt an essay on human racial supremacy and apply it to biological evolution as a ‘cause’ and not expect catastrophic consequences never mind a basis for contention with religion.If the historical lesson of the holocaust in the last century is not powerful enough for Christians to go back and have a look at exactly at where these ‘causes’ emerged,Darwin in evolution and Newton in astronomy, then God help us all
This is unconscionable and coming from a Christian forum,it is the most anti-Christian stance that is possible.Go celebrate Darwin and his racially based ‘natural selection’ perspective of creation but ultimately a great Christian soul who was born on the same day as Darwin has the final word -
“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.” Abraham Lincoln
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Orogeny
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Imperative to you, irrelevant to me.
That is not how evolution works. Darwin could have been completely wrong in everything else he wrote and natural selection would still be true.
So what is the scientific alternative to explain the evidence of evolution? What is your problem with Newton? Any problems with Einstein? How about Pasteur?
Considering the things you have written, you are not in any position to make comment on Christian behavior.
Just an fyi - Darwin was very anti-slavery. Since you oppose him on all fronts, does that mean you support slavery?
Peace
Tim
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oriel16
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The ‘eureka’ moment of Darwin is central to his distortion of evolutionary biology and it certainly has everything to do with evolution -
“One day something brought to my recollection Malthus’s “Principles of Population,” which I had read about twelve years before. I thought of his clear exposition of “the positive checks to increase”—disease, accidents, war, and famine—which keep down the population of savage races to so much lower an average than that of civilized peoples. It then occurred to me that these causes or their equivalents are continually acting in the case of animals also;.… Then it suddenly flashed upon me that this self-acting process would necessarily improve the race, because in every generation the inferior would inevitably be killed off and the superior would remain—that is, the fittest would survive.… The more I thought over it the more I became convinced that I had at length found the long-sought-for law of nature that solved the problem of the origin of species.”
rjohara.net/teaching/uncg/freshman-104w-1-letters
The imperative is that you cannot apply a social/racial essay to biological evolution,it is an affront to intelligence,it is an affront to creation and it does nothing but undermine genuine investigation biological/geological evolution.
To think that the wider population is receiving instructions from people who have no idea where the central ‘cause’ originates and even if they do know are not truly shocked must give some inkling that we are in big trouble as a race.
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Orogeny
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Natural selection has been observed. Do you discount it only on your dislike of Darwin’s approach to race or on the evidence?
You do realize that was Alfred Wallace and not Charles Darwin, right?
Regardless, what evidence do you have that falsifies natural selection?
Do you have any evidence that would falsify natural selection? Your rhetoric is boring. Let’s hear your scientific arguments.
Peace
Tim
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gam197
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Valentin,
There is a CD called "Evolution, the Hoax Destroying Christendom by J.W.C Johnson which costs $6.00.(This CD is excellent as it helps the lay catholic understand about carbon dating and gives information on each human fossil that was found…)
Humani Generis - written August 12, 1950 by Pope Pius XII,(encyclical on evolution) at a cost of $1.50.
They are available Seton Home School (540-636-9996) or Keep the Faith(201-327-5900)
As you live in Bulgaria, if you would like, PM me with your address, and I will send you the CD.
There is a CD called "Evolution, the Hoax Destroying Christendom by J.W.C Johnson which costs $6.00.(This CD is excellent as it helps the lay catholic understand about carbon dating and gives information on each human fossil that was found…)
Humani Generis - written August 12, 1950 by Pope Pius XII,(encyclical on evolution) at a cost of $1.50.
They are available Seton Home School (540-636-9996) or Keep the Faith(201-327-5900)
As you live in Bulgaria, if you would like, PM me with your address, and I will send you the CD.
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StAnastasia
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Do you understand how scientists employ the term “theory”?
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Orogeny
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gam197
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There are many scientists in the world and that is why this debate goes on.originally posted by Orogeny
Yeah, I’m sure it does.
A theory is a hypothesis that has strong scientific evidence supporting it.
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Orogeny
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Yes there are.
No it’s not. This debate goes on because some people MUST accept a literal creation as described in Genesis or their faith will crumble. They feel that they must try to convince others that the science behind evolution is flawed to support their point.
Peace
Tim
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StAnastasia
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Among trained scientists there is no debate of the sort you imagine there is.
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gam197
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There is debate among Catholic scientists and since I am a Catholic, they are the ones I look to for answers.
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Orogeny
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Not among Catholic paleontologists or geochemists. There may be a very few that also have weak faith, but that clearly doesn’t have an impact on the science.
Peace
Tim
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cassini
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Thanks oriel16. I’m still a little confused though - 'undermine genuine biological/geological evolution and astronomy, they create a completely fabricated historical story to cast Christianity and religion in the worse possible light ’ - probably because I do not know where you stand on the subject of faith and science, on evolution, on theistic evolution, on astronomy, on Copernicus. or on the Church’s involvement in these areas. I’ll follow your terrific posts and see where you go.
Sorry oriel16, I replied before reading your other posts. I see you do elaborate. I may reply to one or two of them.
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gam197
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I am not sure it is about weak faith as much as it is about wanting the whole truth. If evolution as it stands was accepted by the Church, it would make no difference in my faith.
I, like many others, am waiting for the Pope and the Magisterium, for the proper teaching usually given in an encyclical on evolution.
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