Data that young people are attracted to the Latin Mass?

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snarflemike said:
I read that young people are attracted to the Latin Mass (I won’t differentiate EF and OF in that term), but I wonder if there is any data to support this? […]
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The only data I’ve seen have been those of Fr. Donald Kloster of Norwalk, CT, USA. These data have been called into question due to sampling issues (e.g. he compared data from CARA representing the opinions/practices of so-called “Novus Ordo Catholics” to those of the self-selecting samples of “traditionalists”, in person, from parishes that offer the Extraordinary Form.) The CARA data represent all self-proclaimed “Catholics” despite how infrequently they might attend Mass. The “Trads” who filled out questionaires when prompted to after Sunday Mass were inherently a group of 100% Sunday Mass attenders. I’d take these data with a huge grain of salt. Nevertheless, these data imply that young Catholics (age 18-35) attend Mass more frequently and participate in parish activities more frequently when they attend the Extraordinary Form regularly on Sundays.

I myself am a young 30s male Catholic who almost exclusively attends the Extraordinary Form. I myself haven’t seen this Catholic Springtime of Latin Mass Liturgical Renewal. Yes, I agree that Catholics my age are looking for meaningful liturgy, but I frankly (lamentably) don’t think the Extraordinary Form is on the average young Catholic’s mind. She has far too many other issues to worry about. Our own parish saw a boon for a few years but in the last year or so we’ve really tapered out in the increase of new faces. I hate to admit it but I think we’ve reached (or are about to reach) “peak Latin Mass.”
 
The data amounts to “we see young people attracted to the Latin Mass”. That’s just data, it’s not conclusive.
My kids have no interest whatsoever in the Latin Mass.
What they do want is the Church’s intellectual “meat”. They want the unity of faith and reason. They want Catholic answers to the world’s deceptions.
They want the liturgical and intellectual Tradition of the Church, doesn’t have to be Latin. Well celebrated English language liturgy will do just fine.
Meaningful music that doesn’t pander.
 
Easy: Go to a Latin Mass and count the total number of people, then count the people who are teens and in their 20s (who are not with mom and dad). Divide and get a percentage. I used to go to a Latin Mass with 50-60 people. About half were in the teens and 20s. The others were 60+. Almost no one from the in-between ages (30-60). I suspect this is typical, and it makes sense.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
This is a welcome trend. On the other hand, some non-diocesan independent TLM chapels are virtual fever swamps of far-right-wing extremism in all matters, not just religious ones. I avoid these.
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I have met some idividuals in that category, but have yet to come across a church or parish where I had the impression they were over-represented. And any parish of any sort will attract some wierdos and loons. That’s a law of nature maybe. If there is any danger of political partisamship undermining congregations, I think the bigger danger comes from the political left. Thinking of people like Cardinal Marx.
 
Any data of this sort is no doubt propagated by those people who actually like the Latin Mass.
I have spoken to no young person who is attracted to the Latin Mass.
But, I say each to their own. If you like the Latin Mass, go for it.
On the other hand, it is wonderful to understand the words of the Mass in my native tongue. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
 
JoeShlabotnik said:
I have spoken to no young person who is attracted to the Latin Mass.
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Have you been to a Latin Mass lately? 😅 I’m consider myself a young person very attracted to the Latin Mass. While we’re only 4 strong families and a couple singles, we young people make up the active part of our EF indult masses. Anecdotally, it’s the most young people I’ve seen gathered anywhere in the Catholic Church, excluding youth masses which also attract young people.
 
No, I had enough of the Latin Mass when I was a child growing up.
My Sunday Missal was split in half, with the words on one side in Latin and on the other side in English. Because of this, it was hard to follow.
I was so glad when things were changed to allow the Mass to be said in English. I truly believe that God wants us to understand the words of the Mass.
Let me ask you a question, why are you attracted to Latin Mass?
 
So the same Mass that is in your translated Missal is now said in English?
 
etcustodiatte said:
Could you expand on the ‘real presence’ point?

It certainly seems odd that some Catholics who attend Mass regularly don’t believe in that.
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(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) https://liturgyguy-files-wordpress-...ordpress.com/2019/02/tlm-survey-results-1.jpg

edit. I realize real presence is not in this chart. The same Pew research poll showed similar percentages on belief but I cannot find it at the moment.

Source:

 
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Statistics mean little.
Often people tell others what they think they want to hear, not necessarily what they truly believe.
Prior to the 2016 Presidential election, the polls (i.e., statistical data) suggested that Hillary Clinton would be elected. Obviously, the polls were wrong, through it was a close electoral college vote and Clinton received more actual votes.
 
I understand. Anything that doesn’t support one’s own view is wrong. The era of “fake news”. The fact that Hilary won the popular vote seems to suggest that the polls were fairly accurate. As you say the election was very close. If you actually looked at that chart you have seen that the numbers are not close.
 
If the polls had been accurate, Clinton would have been elected.
So many of the people polled beforehand were not answering truthfully.
The point I am trying to make is that I do not trust polls.
People will tell pollsters what they think the correct answer is. But in reality, they do not actually believe that they have answered.
 
I understand the problem with polls but your argument does not apply to this poll. You say people respond with what they should say not what they believe. Most of the positions vastly supported by the NO side are against Church teachings therefore it’s not what they should say but they still do.
 
Cirdan_XII said:
This is a welcome trend. On the other hand, some non-diocesan independent TLM chapels are virtual fever swamps of far-right-wing extremism in all matters, not just religious ones. I avoid these.
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With rare exceptions, you wouldn’t run into this in a TLM parish or chapel under the purview of a diocese or a religious society, such as the FSSP, which is subject to the Holy Father. I had more in mind sedevacantist chapels, or those independent chapels which, while not sedevacantist, operate without Church approval. Some of those are very right-wing on matters other than religion — politics, conspiracy theories, and so on.
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Hardly. A lot of prayers were dropped. Most were silent though so people didn’t notice.
 
Exactly. That’s why the argument about the vernacular is fallacious. The Mass was always translated into the vernacular and could have been said as such. Instead the entire Mass was drastically changed.
 
Hello sir, I may position multiple questions to you?
  1. I want I asked you this but do you still have plenty of hope for the Church despite not so wonderful statistical pictures; or again it shouldn’t be based on numbers?
  2. This most probably (likely) warrants a thread but what is to be to the fate of the “innocents” or of the many who end up finding themselves separated from the Church due to things greater than them; for example, they were reached out to enough/properly or reaching out to them couldn’t be helped due to institutional limits? Like this is a crazy hypothetical but if there were more programs, more ministries, more outreach, something could be different? What will happen to innocent and kind people who find themselves separated from the Church due to concerns that she “failure” to hold them or catch them? I concede this possibly is driven my personal feelings.
  3. How do you respond to those who place an excessive focus on circumstances of life determining one’s state of salvation (like they see people as more deterministic kinda like predestination where some people are fated to be “not saved” because they weren’t given a chance for whatever reason)?
  4. I ask for remission if my “pessimism” hurt or damaged the faith of anyone here.
 
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JoeShlabotnik said:
Let me ask you a question, why are you attracted to Latin Mass?
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If this question is addressed to me, I rarely attend a Latin Mass - maybe once or twice a year. That said, I certainly appreciate its reverence, solemnity and noble beauty - all characteristics that have been lacking in various degrees in 99% of the OF vernacular Masses I have ever attended. One exception is a solemnly celebrated Mass in the Sarum Rite, which is in (elevated) English. That is a beautiful Mass.
 
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