Data that young people are attracted to the Latin Mass?

[Prodigal1984]

I don’t know why this thread even exists.
What are we implying here, that we are all amazed that young people could be attracted to something that was the norm of the Church for centuries?
That notion is offending to me as I am 35 and i love both. It isn’t like Paul Vl released the OF in 1970 so young people would think it was cool and everything from before was lame and dated.
I would say today’s world is crazy. There is a lot of insecurity. One thing I at least am attracted to is tradition and I think a lot of millenials are attracted to that.

I don’t like how this question is asked almost like it is some dangerous phenomena that young people could be attracted to the same thing so many saints only knew.

 

[TheMortenBay]

It is the same for those of us who like to hear the words of God spoken to us in our native tongue. God speaks all languages. Those who are stuck in the past speak Latin.

What’s the same to you? The Mass? The reverence?
I don’t feel stuck in the past. Sometimes I do feel that some people are hung up on certain issues about the Latin Mass or, perhaps more to the point, certain tendencies connected with the time of the transition from the Latin Mass to the new missal.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

The point I am getting at is that you folks who prefer the Mass said in Latin try to make it that your Mass is more reverent and better than the Mass that is said in English or in other languages, which just is not the case.
If you like Latin, terrific.
But God speaks to us in all languages.
My reference to stuck in the past has to do with my opinion that since Vatican II changes, there have been many Catholics who have wanted to go back to the way things were “in the good ole days” as they seem to see it.
The good ole days are today and every day that we give glory and praise to God through the Mass.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I read that young people are attracted to the Latin Mass (I won’t differentiate EF and OF in that term), but I wonder if there is any data to support this? Data would be nice to refute comments such as “bringing back Latin Masses will just drive more young people out of the Church” - a comment I read online very recently.

I think there is something to this. It seems to me, at least where I live anyway, that more young families are choosing the more conservative parishes and parishes that offer the TLM are usually of a more conservative nature already.

I suspect they are not referring so much to teens but young families. Teens usually go with their family or friends and if they go somewhere with their friends it is often from peer pressure rather than interest. There is one parish not too far from us that is a rather “progressive” parish and they have a teen Mass on Sunday evenings. Thing is there are very, very few teens there, almost none, but mostly older baby boomer types that attend. There were a few teens I knew who attended a couple of times but quit… They stated it didn’t seem like Mass and it was too loud, which is interesting for a teen to say.

My reference to stuck in the past has to do with my opinion that since Vatican II changes, there have been many Catholics who have wanted to go back to the way things were “in the good ole days” as they seem to see it.

As others have said, it is not about being stuck in the past but bringing what was good about the past forward, a continuation of what is right. Just because something is of the past does not make it wrong and just because something is now or new does not make it right. What people want is a return or a bringing to our times the respect and reverence for the Mass and the Catholic church, a continuation of what is Catholic, of what is right.

From what I gather reading Traditionalist websites, retention is a serious problem that threatens the very existence of the movement. Perhaps more of their children may remain Catholic, but most of those move on to non-traditionalist congregations, especially if they move away from home.

This I don’t get. 20-30 years ago there were very few TLM’s. While it is true there are not as many as there are OF Masses but definitely wouldn’t say their existance is threatened because right now traditional parishes seem to be on the rise. Usually what happens when children move away from home they do many times go a different way than their parents but a good portion of the time they return.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

My husband and I are not stuck in the past. We like bringing “the past” into our present. My husband TYPES on his typewriters and corresponding with other collectors and those who have some kind of association with typewriters.

Love that. Someone in my father’s family used to sell typewriters. I still have one.

I USE my uranium glass at mealtimes–yes, they’re radioactive, but so far, I haven’t grown a third arm yet (wish I would–I could get more done!).

I love collecting vintage corning ware.

Off topic but just thought I would mention it. Not stuck in the past either.

 

[whatistrue]

…you folks who prefer…

Bit of a broad brush there. Yes, there are some who prefer the EF who feel that it is superior to the OF, just as some who prefer the OF who believe that it is superior to the EF. But it is unfair to speak as if all who prefer the EF think the same way.

 

[PetraG]

It is a chicken-and-egg question, but Latin Mass attendees are more likely to have larger families, more likely to donate more to the weekly collection, more likely to attend Mass faithfully every Sunday, more likely to have children who answer vocations to the priesthood or religious life, and more likely to marry in the Church.

National Survey Results: What We Learned About Latin Mass Attendees | liturgy guy

The problem in assessing that information is that at present those who regularly go to the TLM are a small fraction of the Church. They’re Catholics who are unusual and willing to be unusual if that is what is necessary. It is hard to say what changes would come to the demographic if the tables were turned and it was the Latin Mass that was ubiquitous and the Mass in the vernacular that was more difficult to find and made a Catholic who sought it out somewhat unusual.

 

[Le_Crouton]

I’m attracted to the girls that go to mass, Latin or otherwise. Lol just thought I’d be a little funny. But honestly I like having both options. I switch it up on occasion

 

[GordonP]

Usually what happens when children move away from home they do many times go a different way than their parents but a good portion of the time they return.

I wouldn’t count on many people who leave the TLM movement returning at some point in the future, and certainly not on enough of them returning to offset the numbers who continue to leave.

right now traditional parishes seem to be on the rise.

A common mantra in the TLM movement. Reality is that the movement has topped out, and as it is not attracting many younger members, it will decrease once the core membership, which is predominantly older, starts to die off. The pool of people who are interested in the TLM is rapidly ageing out, and once they are gone, the movement will collapse. There are no indications that it can maintain critical mass. Quite the opposite.

 

[PetraG]

A common mantra in the TLM movement. Reality is that the movement has topped out, and as it is not attracting many younger members, it will decrease once the core membership, which is predominantly older, starts to die off. The pool of people who are interested in the TLM is rapidly ageing out, and once they are gone, the movement will collapse. There are no indications that it can maintain critical mass. Quite the opposite.

I think the movement will top out, and I base that on the resistance of Americans in general to learn and use foreign languages. Having said that, I don’t think it has topped out just yet because of the growing number of young men in the priesthood who put a value on the TLM and the number of children and seriousness about catechesis that seems to exist among young families who attend the TLM.

The Mass that is going to continue to grow in the United States, however, is the Mass said in Spanish. That is the demographic that is keeping our numbers as a Church in total from going the way of mainline Protestant denominations (not to mention the Church in Europe). Families who teach their children Latin would do well to encourage them to learn Spanish, too, then.

 

[snarflemike]

It is the same for those of us who like to hear the words of God spoken to us in our native tongue. God speaks all languages. Those who are stuck in the past speak Latin.

Well, as the one who posted the original question, it was never Latin-good-or-bad?, but you keep hitting on this point, so I will reply. Remember, as I posted earlier, I am not a regular Latin Mass goer (maybe a couple a year - would almost certainly go more if one were closer). But this following point has been obvious to me for a very long time:

Based on decades of experience, I have come to believe that, whatever its merits, having the Mass in the vernacular (a particular vernacular, for there are so many!) is extremely divisive for many parishes. It segregates the parish into the English Mass, the Spanish Mass, the Vietnamese Mass, the Chinese Mass, etc, etc. It produces multiple non-overlapping worshipping communities within the boundaries of a single parish, all largely invisible to each other. This has been the case in every parish I have been involved with, and it seems very much against the unity we should seek in a parish. So stop assuming and claiming that the only attraction to a Latin Mass must be people wanting to live in the past, that’s both wrong and unfair.

 

[PetraG]

So stop assuming and claiming that the only attraction to a Latin Mass must be people wanting to live in the past, that’s both wrong and unfair.

When you go to the TLM, is the homily in Latin? Even if there were still only the Latin Mass, the issue of the Catholic Church having several first-language language groups would still exist, I would think. It isn’t as if we didn’t have Polish parishes and Italian parishes and so on back when Latin was all there was.

Having said that, I don’t think the attraction of Latin is “living in the past.” I think do think it is connecting to the past, but not as if people are trying to get into the display at a museum. There is probably some of that, but I don’t think that is the norm by any means. Besides, once you learn it you find that Latin is a language that is particularly suited to poetry, because of the repetition of certain endings and the freedom to put the words in the most melodious or dramatically effective order without changing the meaning of a sentence.

People understand that native languages are worth keeping alive. It is a pity that so few understand that Latin is worth maintaining as a living language of prayer, as well. When a native American wants to know the language of their ancestors, are they accused of living in the past? No, they’re applauded for not wanting to let something precious be lost or made into a museum piece. It is use that does that for a language.

I would hope that Catholics who see the value of praying in Latin do resist becoming “one more special language group”; that is, that they resist becoming an isolated splinter group in their parishes.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I guess that is what some people hope will happen but as far as indications of what is happening I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I don’t see it as something that is being maintained by the eldery but quite the opposite.

The pool of people who are interested in the TLM is rapidly ageing out, and once they are gone, the movement will collapse.

There are many who see the “Spirit of Vatican II crowd” this way, an aging group, who won’t let go of the 70’s and fighting the restoration of the faith., so again we will just have to agree to disagree. (and I am in the middle, neither young, nor elderly)

 

[TheMortenBay]

The pool of people who are interested in the TLM is rapidly ageing out, and once they are gone, the movement will collapse.

Can you quote a source for this? As you can see from previous posts quite a few people have the opposite experience.

 

[snarflemike]

When you go to the TLM, is the homily in Latin?

Obviously not. But I would have no problem going to a Latin Mass knowing that the homily would be in a language I did not understand, while I will do everything possible to avoid going to a Mass where the entire Mass is in a language I did not understand.

I do agree with your other points about Latin being a sacral language, and am reminded of the turmoil every time a new vernacular translation is released.

 

[PetraG]

The pool of people who are interested in the TLM is rapidly ageing out, and once they are gone, the movement will collapse.

This is just the viewpoint from one diocese, but I’d say that the fraction of priests interested in saying the Mass in Latin is growing in our archdiocese. It is the younger priests, not the older ones, who are the biggest proponents of the TLM. There aren’t huge numbers of young people interested in the TLM, but the ones who are show this tendency to marry each other and then go on to have 4-6 children.

 

[GordonP]

but the ones who are show this tendency to marry each other and then go on to have 4-6 children.

Again, you are assuming that those 4-6 children will remain in the movement, which is exceedingly dubious.

 

[PetraG]

Obviously not. But I would have no problem going to a Latin Mass knowing that the homily would be in a language I did not understand, while I will do everything possible to avoid going to a Mass where the entire Mass is in a language I did not understand.

I do agree with your other points about Latin being a sacral language, and am reminded of the turmoil every time a new vernacular translation is released.

I’ve been to a Mass in Spanish when I barely understood Spanish, and it is surprising how much you do understand, particularly when you have a bilingual Missal (so you know the meaning of the collect, for example). It is still the same Mass. Not being able to make heads or tails of the homily was probably the most difficult part, frankly.

 

[PetraG]

Again, you are assuming that those 4-6 children will remain in the movement, which is exceedingly dubious.

Having met the children, I wouldn’t say that it is “extremely dubious.” When you are used to a certain amount of formality in showing reverence to the Blessed Sacrament, for instance, going to vernacular Masses, especially youth Masses, in some places can be a bit jarring, because you’re more likely to run into fellow Catholics who are poorly catechized in that regard (although obviously not everyone). If I were young enough to be looking for someone to marry who went to confession regularly and had an understanding of the faith similar to mine, I’d go to the Latin Mass pretty often. As the saying goes, “Don’t marry for money. Hang around rich people, and marry for love.” You find well-catechized Catholics both at the TLM and at the typical Sunday Mass at a parish, but there are fewer poorly-catechized Catholics who go out of their way to find a Mass in Latin.

After all, it is sadly uncertain whether the two children raised by a family that doesn’t ever attend the Latin Mass will still be Catholic when they grow up, either. It is a hard world for passing on the faith, Latin or not. It is certainly more likely that parents with only two children will be more likely to pressure them to marry and produce grandchildren than to encourage them to consider a religious vocation. (This has been true since Pope Pius XI wrote in 1935: “The lack of vocations in families of the middle and upper classes may be partly explained by the dissipations of modern life, the seductions, which especially in the larger cities, prematurely awaken the passions of youth; the schools in many places which scarcely conduce to the development of vocations. Nevertheless, it must be admitted that such a scarcity reveals a deplorable falling off of faith in the families themselves.”)

 

[MagdalenaRita]

After all, it is sadly uncertain whether the two children raised by a family that doesn’t ever attend the Latin Mass will still be Catholic when they grow up, either. It is a hard world for passing on the faith, Latin or not.

That was my thought. People walk away from the faith when leaving their parents all the time but many do return and when they do they usually look for what they remember being taught and sometimes more.