Dating advice please - and prayers!

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augustinegirl

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Hi all! I posted this on another thread (vocations) but it looks like this is more appropriate here…

Would appreciate some prayerful/truthful guidance as to the necessary basics of a relationship because no human is black and white, and I’m still learning how to be discern this stuff. I also have anxiety which has made dating always quite difficult. This guy I’m dating has told me he wants to move slowly because of past hurts and I have had a hard time understanding it until more recently. I know these things can’t be rushed, but we’re only going on dates for months, not in a relationship (exclusively dating but not really with real commitments - I’m not called his girlfriend, don’t know his family, etc.). I do really think it’s improving, but it’s hard for me to trust when we’re on two different levels and timelines at the moment. I’m also not great at just moving slowly, I like certainty and I’m praying not to.

It’s been sticky here and there because he dealt with being cheated on and it ruined his trust and such. So because of that time, my parents and friends don’t like what they’ve heard about him from me, because I only really talked about him when I was upset. I will admit that he hasn’t always been the most sensitive or generous, and our communication hasn’t always been great. He doesn’t want to do gifts for holidays or anything, but yet he still pays for my meals and such. We text about things and that’s not good for serious conversation, though he doesn’t like phone calls. I also haven’t been innocent either. I have some boundary problems I’m working on and I can be quite pushy/try to manipulate (I don’t realize I’m doing it but I’ll let my fears take over and push)…but then I also don’t always say what I’m thinking. I should be saying more of what I think and I’m working on that. I know relationships need to help people grow as well.

As far as positives go, we share the same core values that are very counter-cultural and we’re both really invested in our faith and growing in faith. I just can’t ignore the voices of people telling me “I don’t know about this,” because I’ve always thought to listen, but I do also think some situations progress differently than others. I do have a good feeling about him (or maybe that’s just my attraction to him) and he’s slowly been improving and opening up (very, very closed off for a while), but what do you look for? I’m a firm believer that not every situation is the same and people aren’t black and white, so I don’t believe people saying “he’s not into you” or anything. It could be he’s stuck on something, but I’m not really asking that. What I’m asking is more…what qualities do you look for? In the past I’ve had these long lists, but I don’t think those are necessary. I think there are just some essential factors that a person must have, and I want to hear what people think those are.

And then because it’s been dating before a relationship (family involved and such),** do you think it is essential to meet the family and everything to know how someone is?**

Please pray for this situation and for me to detach and follow God’s will, whatever that is. I just want to do something that makes sense, but I also have these feelings that attach me to him because I love spending time with him even if he is hard to get to open up.
 
I think THE essential quality necessary for any relationship is being whole.

Some people grow up whole, some people fight their way out of brokenness, and some people stay broken.

Brokenness comes in many forms and from many different origins. It is healed in many ways, sometimes on your own and sometimes with professional help.

It sounds like right now, he’s living in brokenness. Hurt and distrust from prior relationships are keeping people at arm’s length. It sounds like you are living in the brokenness of insecurity and manipulation, adding anxiety to the mix.

He has issues to fix, you have issues to fix. It doesn’t sound like either of you are in a good frame of mind to work on a relationship because you need to be working on yourself instead.

Take it from a formerly broken person, who is now mostly whole, who spent years wanting a relathionship, a marriage, but who was unable to see all the crazy sh*t she was doing to completely sabotage those relationships… it ain’t easy, but it is worth it to do the heavy lifting of dealing with your personal baggage.
 
augustinegirl said:
Hi all! I posted this on another thread (vocations) but it looks like this is more appropriate here…

Would appreciate some prayerful/truthful guidance as to the necessary basics of a relationship because no human is black and white, and I’m still learning how to be discern this stuff. I also have anxiety which has made dating always quite difficult. This guy I’m dating has told me he wants to move slowly because of past hurts and I have had a hard time understanding it until more recently. I know these things can’t be rushed, but we’re only going on dates for months, not in a relationship (exclusively dating but not really with real commitments - I’m not called his girlfriend, don’t know his family, etc.). I do really think it’s improving, but it’s hard for me to trust when we’re on two different levels and timelines at the moment. I’m also not great at just moving slowly, I like certainty and I’m praying not to.

It’s been sticky here and there because he dealt with being cheated on and it ruined his trust and such. So because of that time, my parents and friends don’t like what they’ve heard about him from me, because I only really talked about him when I was upset. I will admit that he hasn’t always been the most sensitive or generous, and our communication hasn’t always been great. He doesn’t want to do gifts for holidays or anything, but yet he still pays for my meals and such. We text about things and that’s not good for serious conversation, though he doesn’t like phone calls. I also haven’t been innocent either. I have some boundary problems I’m working on and I can be quite pushy/try to manipulate (I don’t realize I’m doing it but I’ll let my fears take over and push)…but then I also don’t always say what I’m thinking. I should be saying more of what I think and I’m working on that. I know relationships need to help people grow as well.

As far as positives go, we share the same core values that are very counter-cultural and we’re both really invested in our faith and growing in faith. I just can’t ignore the voices of people telling me “I don’t know about this,” because I’ve always thought to listen, but I do also think some situations progress differently than others. I do have a good feeling about him (or maybe that’s just my attraction to him) and he’s slowly been improving and opening up (very, very closed off for a while), but what do you look for? I’m a firm believer that not every situation is the same and people aren’t black and white, so I don’t believe people saying “he’s not into you” or anything. It could be he’s stuck on something, but I’m not really asking that. What I’m asking is more…what qualities do you look for? In the past I’ve had these long lists, but I don’t think those are necessary. I think there are just some essential factors that a person must have, and I want to hear what people think those are.

And then because it’s been dating before a relationship (family involved and such),** do you think it is essential to meet the family and everything to know how someone is?**

Please pray for this situation and for me to detach and follow God’s will, whatever that is. I just want to do something that makes sense, but I also have these feelings that attach me to him because I love spending time with him even if he is hard to get to open up.
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It doesn’t sound like he’s quite ready for a new relationship. How old are the two of you? Not giving his significant other a Christmas gift - even a small, inexpensive one - is never a good sign.
 
1ke said:
I think THE essential quality necessary for any relationship is being whole.

Some people grow up whole, some people fight their way out of brokenness, and some people stay broken.

Brokenness comes in many forms and from many different origins. It is healed in many ways, sometimes on your own and sometimes with professional help.

It sounds like right now, he’s living in brokenness. Hurt and distrust from prior relationships are keeping people at arm’s length. It sounds like you are living in the brokenness of insecurity and manipulation, adding anxiety to the mix.

He has issues to fix, you have issues to fix. It doesn’t sound like either of you are in a good frame of mind to work on a relationship because you need to be working on yourself instead.

Take it from a formerly broken person, who is now mostly whole, who spent years wanting a relathionship, a marriage, but who was unable to see all the crazy sh*t she was doing to completely sabotage those relationships… it ain’t easy, but it is worth it to do the heavy lifting of dealing with your personal baggage.
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Well… that was very good haha, thank you so much for commenting. I am still praying about it and working with my counselor and need to have an honest conversation with him, but that is something to consider, that we are both broken. See, here’s my question though: when do you stop being broken? Or when are we just healthy enough to get into something? I don’t believe it’s possible to ever be fully healed of everything; we’re messy and only get on by God’s grace. In the past I’ve said things like “I shouldn’t be dating at this point in my life,” and people have said “you will never be perfectly ready to date.” With this situation, I didn’t realize these things really until we started going on dates, so it’s been a huge learning experience. I just don’t know what is an acceptable amount to be dealing with vs. what’s not.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
It doesn’t sound like he’s quite ready for a new relationship. How old are the two of you? Not giving his significant other a Christmas gift - even a small, inexpensive one - is never a good sign.
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We’re in our 20s; I’m not so experienced in the dating world with a few experiences and he’s had a few longer term things but not too too much. I agree, though I don’t know…some people are different, and he makes me feel special in different ways. But it would be nice
 
1ke said:
Cuz, crazy doesn’t fall far from the tree!!!

🙂
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this isn’t always necessarily true. I certainly hope I am not like the rest of my family with a great many things.

but more to the point, you are absolutely right that both individuals have to be relatively whole before pursuing a relationship. brokenness does come with a lot of baggage. and it’s much more difficult if the personis in denial that they are broken and need help.

if he has trust issues due to infidelity in the past, which is perfectly understandable by the way, he needs space and time to heal. now it depends if you want to wait around for that or not. and you need to work on your own issues too if you say yourself that you feel like you can be pushy and manipulative
 
angell1 said:
this isn’t always necessarily true. I certainly hope I am not like the rest of my family with a great many things.

but more to the point, you are absolutely right that both individuals have to be relatively whole before pursuing a relationship. brokenness does come with a lot of baggage. and it’s much more difficult if the personis in denial that they are broken and need help.

if he has trust issues due to infidelity in the past, which is perfectly understandable by the way, he needs space and time to heal. now it depends if you want to wait around for that or not. and you need to work on your own issues too if you say yourself that you feel like you can be pushy and manipulative
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Yes, I definitely agree that it is understandable that he has these issues because of infidelity. I guess that kind of thing can take years to heal. And yes, I am very aware I need to work on my issues haha. I’ve been going to therapy and focusing quite a bit on those things, so I don’t know…but thank you for the reply. Also don’t worry about the family thing - yes it effects a lot, but you are not doomed to be like your family if their are unsavory characters
 
augustinegirl said:
when do you stop being broken? Or when are we just healthy enough to get into something?
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When all of these obstacles stop appearing in your relationships.
augustinegirl said:
I don’t believe it’s possible to ever be fully healed of everything; we’re messy and only get on by God’s grace.
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Yes. But when your relationship issues are more healed than not, you stop having them. Your partner-picker stops picking people who aren’t ready to have them. You stop being someone not ready to have one.
augustinegirl said:
In the past I’ve said things like “I shouldn’t be dating at this point in my life,” and people have said “you will never be perfectly ready to date.”
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You should listen to your internal compass, it seems to know something is going on that needs resolving before dating.
augustinegirl said:
I just don’t know what is an acceptable amount to be dealing with vs. what’s not.
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My rule of thumb is that if there’s something to “deal” with at that stage of dating-- it’s not acceptable.

Because too much happens once you ARE married-- mom gets cancer, you get cancer, spouse loses job, whatever. Emotionally broken people don’t deal well with these things, so if you have early signs of it-- I mean real signs, not just the awkwardness of getting to know someone-- that is a sign that this person might not be the right person at the right time.
 
1ke said:
\

Because too much happens once you ARE married-- mom gets cancer, you get cancer, spouse loses job, whatever. Emotionally broken people don’t deal well with these things, so if you have early signs of it-- I mean real signs, not just the awkwardness of getting to know someone-- that is a sign that this person might not be the right person at the right time.
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All of this is very helpful, thank you. To your last point - I need prayers to detach because I really like him. And my thought process here is “okay maybe we could have space totally on our own” but then of course I’d hope for it to work out with him later. I could see him saying “oh no it’s totally fine, I’m ready for a relationship” if I say it in such a way that suggests that we could need to end it now. I wouldn’t be saying it to be manipulative, because when I take a step back away from my anxiety (which is clinically diagnosed, I don’t just mean regular anxiety as in nerves), I do really want what is best for him. I just could see him saying “no, I’m okay” so he doesn’t lose me, and I wouldn’t know how to deal with that because I don’t know if I should be set on giving space or just start with a conversation with him and proceed afterwards. …Also though, this is my decision to figure out, so I know no one can make it for me
 
I think that men know very quickly whether or not they want to marry the woman they are dating. If it’s been months and he still has not indicated that he wants you to meet his family, then I think it’s time for you to move on.

Not his girlfriend after months of dating? Not a good sign at all. As I said, men know. They are hunters, after all.

And YES, you must meet the family as part of the discernment process for marriage. NO EXCEPTIONS.
 
cominghome1966 said:
I think that men know very quickly whether or not they want to marry the woman they are dating. If it’s been months and he still has not indicated that he wants you to meet his family, then I think it’s time for you to move on.

Not his girlfriend after months of dating? Not a good sign at all. As I said, men know. They are hunters, after all.

And YES, you must meet the family as part of the discernment process for marriage. NO EXCEPTIONS.
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Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I know men who have actually said differently, or that they believed they’d marry several different women and were wrong, so I don’t put as much care into those things. He has mentioned me meeting his family, just has said he’s hoping to be ready for it soon and has asked me to be patient. Anyway now I’m mostly focusing on the other aspects of the issue aside from whether he knows right away, because everyone is different.
 
Here’s my two cents.

If you generally find your parents’ and close friends’ advice to be trustworthy and wise, I’d listen to them and try and make a decision objectively, without taking how much you like this guy into account.

In situations like these, people on the internet really can’t help: you need to talk to people who know you well.
 
If the relationship is so much work now, it is not going to improve with marriage. You cannot change him and marriage won’t change him either. You have been dating for months but he doesn’t call you his girlfriend? Not good. He doesn’t want to exchange Christmas gifts? Why not? Seems like a big red flag to me. And yes, you MUST meet the family before discerning marriage with someone.
 
cominghome1966 said:
I think that men know very quickly whether or not they want to marry the woman they are dating. If it’s been months and he still has not indicated that he wants you to meet his family, then I think it’s time for you to move on.

Not his girlfriend after months of dating? Not a good sign at all. As I said, men know. They are hunters, after all.

And YES, you must meet the family as part of the discernment process for marriage. NO EXCEPTIONS.
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As a male, I concur. Granted, there are probably men who analyze everything–and as a person whose an analyst by trade I would like to think I am not bad at analysis (but then I feel like a fool after reading the philsophy forum)–but in matters of the heart, I don’t.

Heck, I darn near lost my wife when, after dating for a year, she wanted to talk about where things were going and I told her “right toward the priest waiting at the altar” while she was wondering how would we carry on a relationship upon her graduation and return to her home state. It was bad enough that she was caught totally off guard by my comment but things became more uncomfortable when she asked at what point I had decided this to which I replied “When we were walking into the restaurant on our first date, I held the door, you looked down, brushed your hair over your right ear, looked up, smiled and said “thanks”.” She got up, walked out and didn’t return my calls for two weeks.

But then she finally answered (we were in different towns) and said “I have decided to move to your town after graduation so we can be together.”.

Yeah…I knew.

Something is preventing augustine and her boyfriend, which is unfortunate as two young people of faith with shared values are incredibly important witnesses in our time. However, he may not be serious about this relationship. Talk to God, augustinegirl: clear out your mind and just talk–no formal prayers–and listen.
 
augustinegirl said:
Hi all! I posted this on another thread (vocations) but it looks like this is more appropriate here…

Would appreciate some prayerful/truthful guidance as to the necessary basics of a relationship because no human is black and white, and I’m still learning how to be discern this stuff. I also have anxiety which has made dating always quite difficult. This guy I’m dating has told me he wants to move slowly because of past hurts and I have had a hard time understanding it until more recently. I know these things can’t be rushed, but we’re only going on dates for months, not in a relationship (exclusively dating but not really with real commitments - I’m not called his girlfriend, don’t know his family, etc.). I do really think it’s improving, but it’s hard for me to trust when we’re on two different levels and timelines at the moment. I’m also not great at just moving slowly, I like certainty and I’m praying not to.

It’s been sticky here and there because he dealt with being cheated on and it ruined his trust and such. So because of that time, my parents and friends don’t like what they’ve heard about him from me, because I only really talked about him when I was upset. I will admit that he hasn’t always been the most sensitive or generous, and our communication hasn’t always been great. He doesn’t want to do gifts for holidays or anything, but yet he still pays for my meals and such. We text about things and that’s not good for serious conversation, though he doesn’t like phone calls. I also haven’t been innocent either. I have some boundary problems I’m working on and I can be quite pushy/try to manipulate (I don’t realize I’m doing it but I’ll let my fears take over and push)…but then I also don’t always say what I’m thinking. I should be saying more of what I think and I’m working on that. I know relationships need to help people grow as well.

As far as positives go, we share the same core values that are very counter-cultural and we’re both really invested in our faith and growing in faith. I just can’t ignore the voices of people telling me “I don’t know about this,” because I’ve always thought to listen, but I do also think some situations progress differently than others. I do have a good feeling about him (or maybe that’s just my attraction to him) and he’s slowly been improving and opening up (very, very closed off for a while), but what do you look for? I’m a firm believer that not every situation is the same and people aren’t black and white, so I don’t believe people saying “he’s not into you” or anything. It could be he’s stuck on something, but I’m not really asking that. What I’m asking is more…what qualities do you look for? In the past I’ve had these long lists, but I don’t think those are necessary. I think there are just some essential factors that a person must have, and I want to hear what people think those are.

And then because it’s been dating before a relationship (family involved and such),** do you think it is essential to meet the family and everything to know how someone is?**

Please pray for this situation and for me to detach and follow God’s will, whatever that is. I just want to do something that makes sense, but I also have these feelings that attach me to him because I love spending time with him even if he is hard to get to open up.
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I haven’t read the whole thread yet, so apologies for any duplication!

Some thoughts:
  1. It sounds like he’s not ready to date.
  2. “he hasn’t always been the most sensitive or generous, and our communication hasn’t always been great.”
:eek:
  1. I’m not yet hearing the part where he’s crazy about you and you each make the other better and happier.
  2. “He doesn’t want to do gifts for holidays or anything”
If gifts or holidays are a big deal to you, that’s a major area of incompatibility. The book The Five Love Languages even has gifts as one of the five love languages–so it’s a big deal for people for whom gifts are important. I’m not even a gift person myself much, but I would see it as disrespect, laziness, and being bad at relationships.

I would add that at this point in a relationship, gifts should be small-ish–a book, perfume, some flowers–something either of you could easily buy for yourself if you wanted to. It’s an expression of affection, not buying affection. (Large gifts are fine upon engagement.)
  1. “We text about things and that’s not good for serious conversation, though he doesn’t like phone calls.”
That’s a problem. How does he think you guys should discuss serious disagreements?
  1. “I know relationships need to help people grow as well.”
This one seems like too much work–I feel like if you were more compatible, it wouldn’t require so much effort at this stage.
  1. I don’t think a long list is necessary, either, but caring about you and your needs and wanting to be with you is pretty rock bottom essential.
  2. I think you always learn something from the family–for example where certain habits or attitudes come from, whether in conformity or in rebellion to the family’s values.
I wouldn’t freak out, though, if it took a year to meet them.
  1. I would be very concerned that a guy who has been dating you a long time and won’t say “girlfriend” is seeing other people, too.
  2. It’s really, really hard to be married to a person who won’t talk to you.
  3. It sounds like you are putting a lot more into this relationship than he is. Long term, that’s going to hurt.
 
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